UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #22

[Newthoughts]

'Polish Butcher' has made great newspaper copy for some of our more right-leaning tabloids, no doubt about it. It does a better job of firing up fear and nationalist inclinations than 'Newland Avenue shift worker', anyway.

Yes I think it should have been Hull Butcher but as you say some of our press are pretty awful.

I prefered the Guardian headlines where they went with just 'man' as in man charged with.... Man in court today..... As in it's what he's done that matters

"The Hull police or the prosecutor did not determine whether biological material was found in the body of the deceased student - DNA samples from the semen of the suspected rape perpetrator - matching the 26-year-old Paweł Relowicz, who was accused of her murder."

Well, that's not right, is it.

Nope. Not a particularly accurate article.

 

[agme28]

Good evening!
I haven't posted on here in ages but have been following this case since the news broke in early 2019.

My query is around the CCTV footage showing the arrival and departure of PR from the ORPF vicinity. Do we know where this camera was located and whether it actually showed either Libby or PR leaving the vehicle at any point? Is it a 100% given that she never left that area?

And do we know if any evidence was found within the park to show what route Libby might have taken into the river? Any mention of clothing found or other items?

I'm still surprised that Libby's poor body managed to travel down the river and through the city without being seen or caught on anything. I guess there is a science behind it that I could do to research.

Thanks

 

[Miss_French]

Is PR charged with 'Perverting the course of Justice?' if so, when would that come up in the trial?
And if not, do his lies qualify for that charge being made ?

No, he hasn't done anything to be charged with this and telling lies doesn't fall under this heading, which involves: fabrication or disposal of evidence, and intimidating or threatening a juror, witness or judge.

 

[Sally4x]

Perfect. My gut feeling says it was the lowest one in your pic, right in the middle. Really hope we get an explanation for that evening!

I have always believed it was the lowest one as well. I remember it looked like that one on the videos.

 

[Miss_French]

Good evening!
I haven't posted on here in ages but have been following this case since the news broke in early 2019.

My query is around the CCTV footage showing the arrival and departure of PR from the ORPF vicinity. Do we know where this camera was located and whether it actually showed either Libby or PR leaving the vehicle at any point? Is it a 100% given that she never left that area?

And do we know if any evidence was found within the park to show what route Libby might have taken into the river? Any mention of clothing found or other items?

I'm still surprised that Libby's poor body managed to travel down the river and through the city without being seen or caught on anything. I guess there is a science behind it that I could do to research.

Thanks

Doesn't say which camera, but "CCTV showed Relowicz driving to Oak Road Playing Fields – an area that he had already visited that night – where both he and Libby Squire got out of the vehicle before he returned to his car alone seven-and-a-half minutes later."

Jury watches CCTV footage of murder-accused as he ‘effectively stalks and intercepts’ student Libby Squire

No to whether it has been reported that evidence was found in the park, but most of us seem to be of the opinion that there is a lot of info missing from articles on the trial.

 

[Vermont24]

Good evening!
I haven't posted on here in ages but have been following this case since the news broke in early 2019.

My query is around the CCTV footage showing the arrival and departure of PR from the ORPF vicinity. Do we know where this camera was located and whether it actually showed either Libby or PR leaving the vehicle at any point? Is it a 100% given that she never left that area?

And do we know if any evidence was found within the park to show what route Libby might have taken into the river? Any mention of clothing found or other items?

I'm still surprised that Libby's poor body managed to travel down the river and through the city without being seen or caught on anything. I guess there is a science behind it that I could do to research.

Thanks

The rear of houses on Claremont Avenue, so we've heard from the trial updates. There's a CCTV camera on the rear of this house:

Google Maps

You can do some pivoting with Streetview to guess at what it may or may not pick up.

 

[noodles98]

Hi, I'm Polish and I've lived in the UK since I was a child but I often follow Polish news and the article that was mentioned here isn't written by what I'd consider a trusty source. There are main Polish news stations that people will read & watch and I know of many of them and I've never heard of 'The Polish Telegraph'. I think it's a website for Polish people living in the UK rather than Polish people who are in Poland. The case hasn't really been reported on in Poland, I've searched and no major news websites have covered it in Poland.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I have always believed it was the lowest one as well. I remember it looked like that one on the videos.

Didn’t we match up a chipped or discoloured bit of the bench with the SOCO pics? Something like that. Anyway, we’ve yet to learn what it was all about, I assumed PR had suddenly fessed up to sex on that bench, but he’s now saying they didn’t go in the park, so I’m not sure.

 

[tigerowl]

I've always thought they must have had crystal clear CCTV from the off of the two of them arriving at ORPF and only PR leaving. The police only really searched ORPF more or less from day one. They did do small searches in the nunnery and around the areas that we now know that PR cruised and walked but their only real concerted effort was in OEPF so I really reckoned without doubt that they had evidence to say she went there and never came back.

I have said in a previous comment that it is feasible that PR was not lying in his last statement to the court and that Libby did walk away down the street (not exactly true, but feasible) and then did an about turn back to the field as she has been making similar manoeuvres all night. But the more I think about the police search activity afterwards, the more I think they must have been certain she never made her way in the opposite direction of the field so must have pretty good CCTV to prove it....

Edit to clarify what I am saying - I did not mean that PR said she did an about turn. Only I am surmising that she could have done an about turn.

 

[Sally4x]

Didn’t we match up a chipped or discoloured bit of the bench with the SOCO pics? Something like that. Anyway, we’ve yet to learn what it was all about, I assumed PR had suddenly fessed up to sex on that bench, but he’s now saying they didn’t go in the park, so I’m not sure.

Yep we did. They were so fixated on that bench as well. Like you I had assumed he had confessed to having consensual sex on it. I’m really surprised it hasn’t been mentioned, but I guess they didn’t find anything. And at that stage we now know he hadn’t admitted to having sex with her. It’s really weird though why they honed in on that particular bench and not any others.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Yep we did. They were so fixated on that bench as well. Like you I had assumed he had confessed to having consensual sex on it. I’m really surprised it hasn’t been mentioned, but I guess they didn’t find anything. And at that stage we now know he hadn’t admitted to having sex with her. It’s really weird though why they honed in on that particular bench and not any others.

They were straight to that one bench, about 9:30/10 at night, forensic markers down, photos taken, and swiftly left again. It was very random but I remember we all hoped it meant something had progressed in the investigation. Maybe nothing was found, I’d still love to know what intel promoted it though!

 

[Cherwell]

Possibly something was found, or someone reported something, but it was eventually found to be unconnected.

 

[JosieJo]

Just a thought ...if the car arrived oak rd 12.11hrs ...the screams started 12.15 / 12.16 ..bearing in mind he was likely quick ...would the defence try to throw doubt on the screams being libby screaming at PW (ie his claim of angrily screaming at him ...not saying it would work because its unlikely the witness would see a totally different man walking out the park or get the direction wrong ..but in theory they could claim timings roughly fit

 

[tigerowl]

I think the defence must be going to say that the screams mean she was alive until X time and bearing that in mind and the time they can prove he left ORPF there can not have been enough time to get her into the river.

That must be why the two other alleged witnesses to the screaming did not feature as part of the prosecutions case and are apparently (I think) are going to be witnesses for the defence.

 

[Catsarse]

I think it was the Claremont houses cctv and mauri products (the yeast factory) that picked them up....I know I’ve definitely read mauri picked them up arriving together and only him leaving from the court transcripts posted on here.

Im so pleased the thread will be running a bit more calmly, I didn’t enjoy the last one as it strayed off topic.

I wonder if cctv videoed them both up walking into or sitting on the bench (I.e possible dna) or a tussle? Or would this be shown in court and talked about?
I’m curious as it says they both walked in so I wonder what it shows-are they both walking ‘normally’ or was there something going on by that point?

Also all that thorough searching and hacking back of the bushes/brambles at the time of the search, I wonder were they caught on cctv near there (I think this was near the outhouses near the river, please correct me if I’m wrong!)

All my own musings/opinions

 

[Dotta]

Someone said on a previous thread that this had not been reported in Poland. I found this in the Polish Telegraph and translated it

“The following days of the trial against Paweł Relowicz - called by the British media a "butcher" - reveal the backstage of the events of 2019, when a young student disappeared in Hull, who was not allowed into the club because she was too drunk. A Pole wandering the streets admitted that the reason for his presence in the city was "looking for opportunities", but when he had intercourse with a girl he met it was not aimed at murdering her or harming her - "I just wanted to help her" - testified the 26-year-old.

The Hull police or the prosecutor did not determine whether biological material was found in the body of the deceased student - DNA samples from the semen of the suspected rape perpetrator - matching the 26-year-old Paweł Relowicz, who was accused of her murder. The allegations and indictment based on Relowicz's connection with a series of sexual offenses are, in his opinion, groundless.

Is it possible that the "Polish butcher" did not rape Libby Squire, but only had intercourse with her "with consent", and the police and the prosecutor, under pressure from public pressure, are trying to impute this act to him? So far in the trial to be judged by 5 men and 7 women - no expert in the field of forensics spoke, who would answer or confirm that semen in the body of a woman immersed in water for several weeks can survive as long as has passed since the disappearance student until her body is found?

Paweł Relowicz, pressed by the prosecutor, who bases his accusations on average or low-quality CCTV footage, denies the allegations of rape and murder. The Pole does not deny having met Libby Squire. However, he claims that when she started undressing and felt like vomiting - he told her to leave the car. During another series of questions, he admitted that he had had sex with her, but it was not a rape. It was "sensual sex", the 26-year-old said”


"Był seks między nami - taki zmysłowy" - brak dowodów na morderstwo! | The Polish Telegraph

I think it is me you are talking about. I think this "Polish Telegraph" is a magazine published in UK for Polish community living in UK. I meant earlier Polish mainstream media in Poland where I live. I don't read publications meant for emmigration. I guess every foreign community living in UK have their own media written in their native languages.

 

[Becky53]

In the Hull Daily Mail it states that only the car lights flashing (locking/unlocking) was picked up by yeast factory cctv. IMOO it then confuses you into thinking that it picked up them both getting out at arrival and only PR leaving by the way it has been written as you know they both arrived together and he left alone.

12:42KEANE DUNCAN
Relowicz left Oak Road just seven and a half minutes after arriving with Libby, say the prosecution
The jury is being shown CCTV footage of when Relowicz allegedly returned back to his car – shown by the flashing of lights of the car being unlocked.

The time of this clip is 12.19am, around seven and a half minutes after it is claimed he arrived at Oak Road Playing Fields with Libby.

CCTV sited on a nearby yeast factory managed to capture Relowicz and Libby arriving and Relowicz leaving, Mr Wright said.

He added: “That seven and a half minute window was more than enough time for the defendant to have taken or pursued Libby out into the playing fields, sexually attacked and killed her, put her body into the river, and then run back to his car.

“It is equally possible, as we will see when we pick up the CCTV trail, that the defendant had raped and killed Libby during this first visit, but that he did not put her body into the water until his third trip to the area later that evening.”

Pawel Relowicz court updates as butcher stands trial for Libby murder

 

[Vermont24]

Also all that thorough searching and hacking back of the bushes/brambles at the time of the search, I wonder were they caught on cctv near there (I think this was near the outhouses near the river, please correct me if I’m wrong!)

You're not wrong, and those buildings have since been fenced off. The bushes were also cut back right along Oak Road. Remember, at that point the search was still for LS herself, or at least clothing and possessions.

 

[Becky53]

Sorry missed off this quote in my reply

I've always thought they must have had crystal clear CCTV from the off of the two of them arriving at ORPF and only PR leaving. The police only really searched ORPF more or less from day one. They did do small searches in the nunnery and around the areas that we now know that PR cruised and walked but their only real concerted effort was in OEPF so I really reckoned without doubt that they had evidence to say she went there and never came back.

I have said in a previous comment that it is feasible that PR was not lying in his last statement to the court and that Libby did walk away down the street (not exactly true, but feasible) and then did an about turn back to the field as she has been making similar manoeuvres all night. But the more I think about the police search activity afterwards, the more I think they must have been certain she never made her way in the opposite direction of the field so must have pretty good CCTV to prove it....

Edit to clarify what I am saying - I did not mean that PR said she did an about turn. Only I am surmising that she could have done an about turn.

 

[tigerowl]

I suppose it is possible that as they tracked his car onto the CCTV on Bev Road or wherever, immediately afterwards, they could see he had no passenger.

Whichever way, as I stated above - they only searched ORPF with gusto so they must have had proof enough she didn't leave with him