UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #22

[porkypies]

Is PR charged with 'Perverting the course of Justice?' if so, when would that come up in the trial?
And if not, do his lies qualify for that charge being made ?

Just adding this link to more info. on this. It mentions Perjury as a form of Perverting the course of Justice, and lying to police seems to qualify, also PR's own evidence seems to perjure himself as he says he lied because he didn't want his wife to find out.
It's interesting as it seems it can carry a life sentence (if I understand correctly).
www.inbrief.co.uk/offences/perverting-the-course-of-justice/

 

[JosieJo]

I have a feeling there is no actual cctv of them in the park or oak road ..I think the cctv only showed him pulling around the corner out of view into oak rd itself ..and maybe headlight or brake lights flashing once out of vision
I think maybe the yeast factory just picked up the lights or car ariving also
If any cameras actually picked up them getting in and out the car or on the fields we would know about it by now

 

[tigerowl]

Hull is a fairly big city. Where Libby was is relatively safe but there are lots of rough areas. That road she was on could have also got her out of town in either direction in 10 minutes. There are other open areas near where she was last seen, and the Uni grounds themselves are very close and pretty big. There were only cursory searches in a few areas. All of the police search effort was almost immediately centred on ORPF. Whilst they might not have CCTV of them going physically into the park they must have had enough coverage to know his car arrived there with her in it and left there without her.

I'm very interested in the other witnesses the defence are going to call. I have said before I have real issues with the timeline and the evidence presented to prove he murdered her. So far I do not believe it possible. PR has so far proved totally uncredible. I wonder how their other witnesses will fair.

 

[Vermont24]

I have a feeling there is no actual cctv of them in the park or oak road ..I think the cctv only showed him pulling around the corner out of view into oak rd itself ..and maybe headlight or brake lights flashing once out of vision
I think maybe the yeast factory just picked up the lights or car ariving also
If any cameras actually picked up them getting in and out the car or on the fields we would know about it by now

I'd go along with that. It feels like the yeast factory CCTV would have a very limited view of Oak Road - perhaps just the area nearest the car park and the approach from Beresford Avenue.

<modsnip: Image removed due to no link>

 

[tigerowl]

Ooh that perspective is so interesting, Makes the distance between the car park and the river look much shorter and the river appear quite accessible. I can see now, looking at that, why so many people do think the time line is viable when they don't know the area.

Thanks for posting, @Vermont24 very thought provoking.

 

[porkypies]

I have a feeling there is no actual cctv of them in the park or oak road ..I think the cctv only showed him pulling around the corner out of view into oak rd itself ..and maybe headlight or brake lights flashing once out of vision
I think maybe the yeast factory just picked up the lights or car ariving also
If any cameras actually picked up them getting in and out the car or on the fields we would know about it by now

I cannot find the actual quote from the prosecution, but I recall that it was stated that yeast factory CCTV had PR and Libby arriving together, and PR Leaving alone (12.11am -12.19am)
I don't recall that any further details about this footage were given.

 

[Challwood]

I cannot find the actual quote from the prosecution, but I recall that it was stated that yeast factory CCTV had PR and Libby arriving together, and PR Leaving alone (12.11am -12.19am)
I don't recall that any further details about this footage were given.

This taken from the Hull Daily Mail article regarding Key questions answered..

 

[Becky53]

I cannot find the actual quote from the prosecution, but I recall that it was stated that yeast factory CCTV had PR and Libby arriving together, and PR Leaving alone (12.11am -12.19am)
I don't recall that any further details about this footage were given.

In the Hull Daily Mail it states that only the car lights flashing (locking/unlocking) was picked up by yeast factory cctv. IMOO it then confuses you into thinking that it picked up them both getting out at arrival and only PR leaving by the way it has been written as you know they both arrived together and he left alone.

12:42KEANE DUNCAN
Relowicz left Oak Road just seven and a half minutes after arriving with Libby, say the prosecution
The jury is being shown CCTV footage of when Relowicz allegedly returned back to his car – shown by the flashing of lights of the car being unlocked.

The time of this clip is 12.19am, around seven and a half minutes after it is claimed he arrived at Oak Road Playing Fields with Libby.

CCTV sited on a nearby yeast factory managed to capture Relowicz and Libby arriving and Relowicz leaving, Mr Wright said.

He added: “That seven and a half minute window was more than enough time for the defendant to have taken or pursued Libby out into the playing fields, sexually attacked and killed her, put her body into the river, and then run back to his car.

“It is equally possible, as we will see when we pick up the CCTV trail, that the defendant had raped and killed Libby during this first visit, but that he did not put her body into the water until his third trip to the area later that evening.”

Pawel Relowicz court updates as butcher stands trial for Libby murder

 

[mrazda71]

Someone said on a previous thread that this had not been reported in Poland. I found this in the Polish Telegraph and translated it

“The following days of the trial against Paweł Relowicz - called by the British media a "butcher" - reveal the backstage of the events of 2019, when a young student disappeared in Hull, who was not allowed into the club because she was too drunk. A Pole wandering the streets admitted that the reason for his presence in the city was "looking for opportunities", but when he had intercourse with a girl he met it was not aimed at murdering her or harming her - "I just wanted to help her" - testified the 26-year-old.

The Hull police or the prosecutor did not determine whether biological material was found in the body of the deceased student - DNA samples from the semen of the suspected rape perpetrator - matching the 26-year-old Paweł Relowicz, who was accused of her murder. The allegations and indictment based on Relowicz's connection with a series of sexual offenses are, in his opinion, groundless.

Is it possible that the "Polish butcher" did not rape Libby Squire, but only had intercourse with her "with consent", and the police and the prosecutor, under pressure from public pressure, are trying to impute this act to him? So far in the trial to be judged by 5 men and 7 women - no expert in the field of forensics spoke, who would answer or confirm that semen in the body of a woman immersed in water for several weeks can survive as long as has passed since the disappearance student until her body is found?

Paweł Relowicz, pressed by the prosecutor, who bases his accusations on average or low-quality CCTV footage, denies the allegations of rape and murder. The Pole does not deny having met Libby Squire. However, he claims that when she started undressing and felt like vomiting - he told her to leave the car. During another series of questions, he admitted that he had had sex with her, but it was not a rape. It was "sensual sex", the 26-year-old said”


"Był seks między nami - taki zmysłowy" - brak dowodów na morderstwo! | The Polish Telegraph

Oh my goodness! This is just shocking

 

[Jarvis1969]

Hi, I'm Polish and I've lived in the UK since I was a child but I often follow Polish news and the article that was mentioned here isn't written by what I'd consider a trusty source. There are main Polish news stations that people will read & watch and I know of many of them and I've never heard of 'The Polish Telegraph'. I think it's a website for Polish people living in the UK rather than Polish people who are in Poland. The case hasn't really been reported on in Poland, I've searched and no major news websites have covered it in Poland.

Thanks for this Noodles, I just googled and this is what came up, I wasnt sure where it originated from

 

[Jarvis1969]

I dont give a *advertiser censored* what nationality he is, It doesn't matter the press should not concentrate on this, its the fact he has carried out numerous sexual crimes which he has been jailed for & been charged with raping and murdering a vulnerable young girl

 

[porkypies]

"In the Hull Daily Mail it states that only the car lights flashing (locking/unlocking) was picked up by yeast factory cctv. IMOO it then confuses you into thinking that it picked up them both getting out at arrival and only PR leaving by the way it has been written as you know they both arrived together and he left alone."
quoting (Becky 53 )

Yes, PR's latest story fits with them arriving together and him leaving alone as the CCTV shows. But after them both getting out of his car, there is no evidence that she is ever seen alive again. He states that they had sex somewhere not far from/beside the car/by the green shed? later she was trying to kiss him when they were in front of the car? and he then drove off and left her behind his car, shouting after him not to leave and following his car, but no cctv evidence of any of this, or of her leaving the area has been produced, as I recall.

 

[Dotta]

Do you remember - or is it me imagining things - that PR was performing his favourite acts in the street where Libby lived? There are so many threads and links here that I can't keep track of all of them - but I seem to remember reading on Websleuths that she wanted to report him to the police. Well, if he remembered her it puts completely different perspective on her death.

 

[tigerowl]

I think there were incidents of him 'doing his thing' down the same street that Libby lived and in the streets nearby but I do not recall anything ever saying that Libby had previously been aware of him and wanted to report him. I think those incidents involve other young girls.

I think it is just a huge set of coincidences that he had previously carried out his crimes on those streets and that he lucked out with Libby living near enough Oak Road that it didn't set alarm bells ringing for her in the car instantly. It's a highly populated student area and he obviously had a type.

 

[Dotta]

I think there were incidents of him 'doing his thing' down the same street that Libby lived and in the streets nearby but I do not recall anything ever saying that Libby had previously been aware of him and wanted to report him. I think those incidents involve other young girls.

I think it is just a huge set of coincidences that he had previously carried out his crimes on those streets and that he lucked out with Libby living near enough Oak Road that it didn't set alarm bells ringing for her in the car instantly. It's a highly populated student area and he obviously had a type.

Thanks.

 

[JosieJo]

This taken from the Hull Daily Mail article regarding Key questions answered..View attachment 281587

I think when he says it shows them both arriving and him leaving they are talking about the car based on the prosecution version of events..based on they know she was in the car arriving and he arrived home alone ...not that it physically saw them on camera
If the cameras could pick them up at the car they would not be asking him what happened when they got out ...they would know

 

[JosieJo]

Ooh that perspective is so interesting, Makes the distance between the car park and the river look much shorter and the river appear quite accessible. I can see now, looking at that, why so many people do think the time line is viable when they don't know the area.

Thanks for posting, @Vermont24 very thought provoking.

I think it has to be considered that view is as the crow flies if you look at where he parked and the boathouse area where most of the police forensic activity was it looks further imo

<modsnip: Image removed due to no link>

 

[Steve2021]

The entry on HullLive for 12.42 on day 2 of the trial states...

"The jury is being shown CCTV footage of when Relowicz allegedly returned back to his car – shown by the flashing of lights of the car being unlocked.

The time of this clip is 12.19am, around seven and a half minutes after it is claimed he arrived at Oak Road Playing Fields with Libby.

CCTV sited on a nearby yeast factory managed to capture Relowicz and Libby arriving and Relowicz leaving, Mr Wright said."

IF this reporting is accurate it begs the question does it not, why lock the car unless he was leaving it to go somewhere...the obvious candidate for which would be the park?

If the sex occurred where he says it did would he be likely to have locked his car?

 

[DiploRed]

Hull is a fairly big city. Where Libby was is relatively safe but there are lots of rough areas. That road she was on could have also got her out of town in either direction in 10 minutes. There are other open areas near where she was last seen, and the Uni grounds themselves are very close and pretty big. There were only cursory searches in a few areas. All of the police search effort was almost immediately centred on ORPF. Whilst they might not have CCTV of them going physically into the park they must have had enough coverage to know his car arrived there with her in it and left there without her.

I'm very interested in the other witnesses the defence are going to call. I have said before I have real issues with the timeline and the evidence presented to prove he murdered her. So far I do not believe it possible. PR has so far proved totally uncredible. I wonder how their other witnesses will fair.

To be honest, I’m not sure how we are back at this stage. The reason why the police searched that area is because of a few reasons. Firstly, the CCTV as you say shows his car driving into Beresford avenue which is a dead end and so the car would have then been picked up again when it left. CCTV would have confirmed that he didn’t really go far after that except home and Newland avenue area. Plus he told them he left Libby on Beresford avenue. I doubt they have CCTV of them entering the actual playing fields because if they did then they could prove he is lying in court.

 

[Challwood]

I just came across this picture from the initial searches, before most had any kind of inkling about what had happened. LS was still a missing person at this point.

The officers are only feet away from the 'green shed':

I believe the green shed PR says he had sex with Libby on the grass next to could possibly be this one between the lay-by on Oak Road and the rear of the houses on Claremont Avenue.
(Apologies if this has long been established)



You should be able to zoom in and explore the area using the link.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Oak+Rd,+Hull+HU6+7NG/@53.7720919,-0.348164,18z/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x4878be5103e3269b:0x9dbf76f90b0ae2c9?hl=en-gb