UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #18

[Loobyloo]

She did lose her keys in the garden of some student's house that she had entered a short time earlier. The problem is according to the taxi driver and other witnesses, she never even attempted to enter her own house when she still had her keys with her. Also, I would assume she warmed up a bit after entering the student house even if just for a few moments and the taxi driver said she seemed quite alert, so I don't understand why she never tried to find her keys or asked the other students to help her find them and if they couldn't, why would she go to beverley road instead of some alternative option? This sequence of events is baffling.

It is baffling. Perhaps she was scared? Her mother has apparently said she was afraid of the dark, so maybe she was hesitant to head off down a quiet street towards her house. How well lit would that have been, compared with the main road?

 

[Loobyloo]

I wonder if his 3 rd visit was to leave 'another deposit' in a condom near the scene? (Sorry).

Not sure how likely that is, given that he was masturbating in the street a few minutes later.
From @Niner 's summary of Day I evidence:

By 2:25am, he was caught on CCTV arriving back at Oak Road Playing Fields. He remained there for just over four minutes. After his third visit to Oak Road Playing Fields, Relowicz continued to cruise around the student area in Hull, eventually arriving in Newland Avenue at 2:38am. And that around six minutes later he drove to Alexandra Road & parked up: “CCTV cameras picked up the defendant walking across Newland Avenue. "The defendant appears to be standing with his knees bent. The prosecution suggested that what you are watching here [in the CCTV] is the defendant masturbating in the street.”​

That really doesn't leave him very long to 'recharge'.

 

[porkypies]

I mentioned warming up a bit because they said hypothermia may have played a role in her decision making, so at this point I doubt she was hypothermic. As for normal, maybe, but the taxi driver described her as "alert" and you can certainly be drunk to the point of stumbling about but still be reasonably alert mentally. She never tried to enter her house at all yet the whole time she was telling everyone she wanted to go home. I don't think that is normal.

What I'm saying is that this is the typical, abnormal behaviour which is expected and normal when someone is under the influence of excess alcohol, moreover, the defendant in this case easily recognised this, I think he was likely looking for it.

 

[Marg from Oz]

Why would you leave a warm car to go out into the freezing cold snow to have sex.
Wouldn't you have it in a warm car?

 

[Newthoughts]

How does that square with his apparent admission to consensual sex inside the park??

His story changed late in the day - I'm guessing once he became aware of the DNA evidence.

The prosecution said they believed he would NOW admit to sexual intercourse after he'd got to Oak Road. Not a lot of choice really and shouldn't look good.

 

[mrjitty]

Not sure how likely that is, given that he was masturbating in the street a few minutes later.
From @Niner 's summary of Day I evidence:

By 2:25am, he was caught on CCTV arriving back at Oak Road Playing Fields. He remained there for just over four minutes. After his third visit to Oak Road Playing Fields, Relowicz continued to cruise around the student area in Hull, eventually arriving in Newland Avenue at 2:38am. And that around six minutes later he drove to Alexandra Road & parked up: “CCTV cameras picked up the defendant walking across Newland Avenue. "The defendant appears to be standing with his knees bent. The prosecution suggested that what you are watching here [in the CCTV] is the defendant masturbating in the street.”​

That really doesn't leave him very long to 'recharge'.

From other cases I have read, unfortunately this kind of thing appears to be common - celebrating/reliving his assault/murder. It happened in the Millane case as well.

 

[Newthoughts]

It is baffling. Perhaps she was scared? Her mother has apparently said she was afraid of the dark, so maybe she was hesitant to head off down a quiet street towards her house. How well lit would that have been, compared with the main road?

I do know that Beverley road is very well lit main road with bus stops, shops etc. Normally busy.

I'm told by a student, that had lived in Wellesley the year before Libby, that it's a much darker residential street. Very dark round there once you turn of Beverley is how it was described to me. Plus PR had been up to his usual tricks there days before.


I don't know why she didn't go in but as well as being drunk she'd only have been living in that house since Sept. In a typical terrace street of student houses they all look the same and it was dark. I know I couldn't find my way back to my student house once, walked quite a way trying to find. I'm very confused when drunk.

So I do wonder if on leaving the taxi she simply got distracted by the lads waiting to go out and then just went in the wrong direction by mistake and couldn't orient herself back? The students that let her in said she wanted to go home but then set off in the wrong direction.

 

[Newthoughts]

Even if Libby was heard by the Sainsbury’s manager shouting ‘don’t leave me’ in PR’s direction, it still makes perfect sense to me ? and hopefully the jury too.

She was distressed, intoxicated and likely hypothermic at this point - so what if she had rebuffed other passers by offers of help, she likely rebuffed PR’s offers initially too, he was working and working on her. In her volatile state she was likely changing her mind every second as opposed to every minute ! She wasn’t thinking rationally, probably going from ‘yes i better go with him, it’ll be fine, I’m absolutely freezing and feeling poorly and getting no where here’ TO ‘I can’t trust this man, it’s dangerous, I’m distressed and want to stay here and cry..’

I think she was probably protesting quite strongly at the time PR went to briefly sit in his car, perhaps before the sainsbury manager heard, she may have been shouting at PR to leave her alone and he was aware of people in the vicinity so sat in the car momentarily, till they left and then more forcefully coercing her along. She may have been protesting strongly but at the same time, she’s in no fit state and she doesn’t take much to be physically ushered to the car. The poor girl had already fallen so many times.

OR PR knows at this point placing her in his vehicle, that act in itself, from a place of ‘relative safety’ on a public street to the confines of his vehicle means he needs to be absolutely sure there are as few witnesses as possible before he in essence, abducts her. The watch is a tell take sign.

So Libby possibly shouting ‘don’t leave me!’ whilst he’s walked off to his car means absolutely nothing, doesn’t mean she trusts him in the slightest. She likely changed her mind a split second later. She’s so distressed she could be shouting she loved him for all I care, poor lass absolutely doesn’t have a clue what’s really going on..

I have plenty of faith the jurors will look at that statement in all of its context.

Whilst we will never know for sure what happened at that point I think him working on her whilst in that state and her likely changing her mind back and forth just sounds so familiar that I do share that opinion. Seen it before, mixture of coercion, gaslighting taking charge and confusing someone vulnerable - even seen websites devoted to the tactic.

That would be the difference between a genuine good samaritan asking if they can help and a creep telling her he knows best

Especially in her volatile state but even without it there are times when you're balancing separate risks. I once got lost on the outskirts of Dublin airport in the early hours - quiet, dark, cold scary - and accepted a lift back. In two minds and terrified the whole 2 minute trip but seeing no other option. That was when sober

 

[Newthoughts]

Not sure how likely that is, given that he was masturbating in the street a few minutes later.
From @Niner 's summary of Day I evidence:

By 2:25am, he was caught on CCTV arriving back at Oak Road Playing Fields. He remained there for just over four minutes. After his third visit to Oak Road Playing Fields, Relowicz continued to cruise around the student area in Hull, eventually arriving in Newland Avenue at 2:38am. And that around six minutes later he drove to Alexandra Road & parked up: “CCTV cameras picked up the defendant walking across Newland Avenue. "The defendant appears to be standing with his knees bent. The prosecution suggested that what you are watching here [in the CCTV] is the defendant masturbating in the street.”​

That really doesn't leave him very long to 'recharge'.

I believe high tide was 2.30 so could the trip back have been to ensure the evidence had gone or was going and the Alexandra Road the reliving the excitement.

 

[Newthoughts]

Not sure how likely that is, given that he was masturbating in the street a few minutes later.
From @Niner 's summary of Day I evidence:

By 2:25am, he was caught on CCTV arriving back at Oak Road Playing Fields. He remained there for just over four minutes. After his third visit to Oak Road Playing Fields, Relowicz continued to cruise around the student area in Hull, eventually arriving in Newland Avenue at 2:38am. And that around six minutes later he drove to Alexandra Road & parked up: “CCTV cameras picked up the defendant walking across Newland Avenue. "The defendant appears to be standing with his knees bent. The prosecution suggested that what you are watching here [in the CCTV] is the defendant masturbating in the street.”​

That really doesn't leave him very long to 'recharge'.

It's just registered that after the trip to the park he cruises the student area again before stopping for a wank!

I can't help thinking he'd have done it again that night if the chance had arisen

I'm very grateful there was a huge police presence in that area in the days following otherwise IMO there would be more

 

[Marg from Oz]

Was this guy on viagra? Can't imagine how he is going in gaol being so sexually aroused. MOO

 

[Newthoughts]

Was this guy on viagra? Can't imagine how he is going in gaol being so sexually aroused. MOO

Early on all the press pictures were of him at the gym so I did wonder was he taking steroids or testosterone. But then there seems to be too much planning in his offending. He seems to know where to go to get what he wants too well for it to be just impulse alone

 

[bos]

Hi all,
Just been catching up - for some reason I thought trial was to begin 3rd week of January rather than 2nd week

It’s all incredibly sad & tragic but weirdly it’s Libby’s boyfriend still referring to her in present tense & talking about a future that has got to me.

 

[Vermont24]

A view of the River Hull today as it approaches the Humber. Whilst there is a lot of silt in places, it tends to flow fast and deep at this time of year.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

That picture is really good to get an idea of the river. It can come all the way up to where the line is on the iron bankings about a foot from the top. Alternatively ot can be much lower so much of the silt covered bed is exposed with a mere channel of water flowing in the middle. I often (covid aside) spend a lot of time by the river at different times through the day and it still amazes me the variation in water levels even now and just how fast those changes happen. We have seen too many young lives vanish to that river and be swept away, which is one of the reasons I was sure from the start it was the only place Libby could have possibly disappeared to.

 

[Vermont24]

That picture is really good to get an idea of the river. It can come all the way up to where the line is on the iron bankings about a foot from the top. Alternatively ot can be much lower so much of the silt covered bed is exposed with a mere channel of water flowing in the middle. I often (covid aside) spend a lot of time by the river at different times through the day and it still amazes me the variation in water levels even now and just how fast those changes happen. We have seen too many young lives vanish to that river and be swept away, which is one of the reasons I was sure from the start it was the only place Libby could have possibly disappeared to.

Likewise. For me, it was always the river.

 

[Mind your biscuits]

I wonder why the prosecution said he left the park alone after thd second visit? Unless they have clear CCTV I'm confused as to how they know that. PR could have bundled her in the boot and disposed of her on his third visit if he was quick. I forget what type of car he had or it it even had a boot. I just thought I'd throw that out there even though it seems unlikely. Moo.

 

[Skigh]

I wonder why the prosecution said he left the park alone after thd second visit? Unless they have clear CCTV I'm confused as to how they know that. PR could have bundled her in the boot and disposed of her on his third visit if he was quick. I forget what type of car he had or it it even had a boot. I just thought I'd throw that out there even though it seems unlikely. Moo.

Forensics only found evidence of Libby having been in the front passenger seat of his car.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

I wonder why the prosecution said he left the park alone after thd second visit? Unless they have clear CCTV I'm confused as to how they know that. PR could have bundled her in the boot and disposed of her on his third visit if he was quick. I forget what type of car he had or it it even had a boot. I just thought I'd throw that out there even though it seems unlikely. Moo.

Silver Astra?

 

[Skigh]

Silver Astra?

Yes.I believe 5 door ,so hatchback.