UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #19

[Ruthbullock]

It appears it’s only me clocking in of an evening after work ​

 

[Cherwell]

That to me is clutching at straws, it doesn’t sit well with me as a point that needs making, rather it appears desperate.

You don't think cleaning out his car just a few hours after Libby vanished might be significant?

 

[JosieJo]

That to me is clutching at straws, it doesn’t sit well with me as a point that needs making, rather it appears desperate.

For whatever reason the Prosecution felt the point was worth bringing up?

 

[Ruthbullock]

It’s so complicated and I’m
No good at explaining- but what concerns me is, Libby potentially would have passed away that night even if she had not met PR. So to some degree they have to prove he wasn’t helping her, there was a more devious purpose.

 

[Ruthbullock]

You don't think cleaning out his car just a few hours after Libby vanished might be significant?

No, why would he clean it? He has admitted she was in his car.

 

[Cherwell]

No, why would he clean it? He has admitted she was in his car.

He has now, he had no choice in the end, but at the time he cleaned it he had no intention of disclosing that. He denied it when speaking to his friend. He was intent on destroying any clue that might connect him with her.

 

[porkypies]

They are not going to be able to prove murder, are they?

People can be convicted of murder without a body or remains being found, so why not in this case - with proof of sexual activity and the rest of the evidence?

 

[Ruthbullock]

He has now, but at the time he cleaned it he had no intention of disclosing that. He denied it when speaking to his friend. He was intent on destroying any clue that might connect him with her.

I thought he told his friend- where did his friend deny Libby was in his car?

 

[PitchforkRed]

If the yeast factory CCTV was relevant, would it not have been shown/discussed already in the CCTV presentation by the police officer a couple of days ago? Not sure how much new evidence/witnesses are left. I imagine we will hear from the NHS doctor regarding the hypothermia, is there anyone else that could be called? I wonder if they ever managed to track the 4 people seen on the Croda cam.

 

[Vera_dci]

I thought he told his friend- where did his friend deny Libby was in his car?

He told one it wasn't her when the friend suggested telling the police.

The other friend was told about libby but he said she tried it on with him and he told her to get out.

 

[Vera_dci]

Ive been waiting for the croda video evidence too. I was sure running man was PR.

 

[PitchforkRed]

Ive been waiting for the croda video evidence too. I was sure running man was PR.

I thought so too, but I've just checked the timings from the report in the Hull Daily Mail and it says:

"The first clip shows an individual, believed to be in a light coloured T shirt and dark trousers, running into view on Oak Road and then walking out of shot at 1.13am.

The second clip shows a figure on a bike cycling along Oak Road towards Clough Road at 1.24am and is then seen cycling back up Oak Road at 1.34am.

The third clip shows two people, one who appears to be dressed all in dark clothing and the second in light coloured trousers and a dark coloured top, walking along Oak Road at 2.34am."

So I don't think the timing fits for PR. The couple in the third clip may have seen something though.

The key CCTV which could hold clues to Libby's homicide investigation

 

[Cherwell]

I thought he told his friend- where did his friend deny Libby was in his car?

Rafal Mrowczynski told the court that, during a journey to work, Relowicz said he came across a girl in Haworth Street who was saying “she wanted her mum.”
Mr Mrowczynski said Relowicz told him the girl was “acting strangely” and “seemed to be under the influence of something but not alcohol.”
He added: “He said he offered to take her to her home. He said he got into the car and he asked if she knew the address, she said she didn’t but would show him.”
Mr Mrowczynski says Relowicz told him the girl was crying and “asking for her mum” and that “he drove along and she started to undress herself and started taking off her pants and he got scared and he told her to get out of the car and she did and walked off".
Mr Mrowczynski says the next day he told Relowicz to tell the police about it after he had asked him if he knew a girl was missing.
He said: “I told him and he said ‘it wasn’t the same girl’ and I said ‘How do you know?’ and he said because he saw her picture."

Pawel Relowicz told police he 'wanted Libby to be found' - trial

 

[mrazda71]

I hope you're right. It's that pesky "beyond reasonable doubt" thing that's worrying me!

Wouldn't a 'reasonable person' think that if a convicted multiple sex offender stalks a vulnerable young girl, pulls, manhandles her, gets her in his car, drives her to a dark secluded place, causes her to scream, rapes her (potentially takes her underwear as his usual trophy) then leaves, goes home to bathe and then back out to the scene of the rape then commits another sex offence before going home again, cleans his car the next day, lies to his friends, his wife, his family and police ... think that he's the reason that that vulnerable girl was found dead in the water?

I consider myself a reasonable person, if you ask me, which do you think is the most likely story? I'd say, its more logical and realistic that she died at his hands.

I'm confident the jury will think the same.

 

[Cherwell]

'Beyond reasonable doubt' is the standard; not 'beyond ANY doubt'.

 

[Vermont24]

Ive been waiting for the croda video evidence too. I was sure running man was PR.

I thought so too, but I've just checked the timings from the report in the Hull Daily Mail and it says:

"The first clip shows an individual, believed to be in a light coloured T shirt and dark trousers, running into view on Oak Road and then walking out of shot at 1.13am.

The second clip shows a figure on a bike cycling along Oak Road towards Clough Road at 1.24am and is then seen cycling back up Oak Road at 1.34am.

The third clip shows two people, one who appears to be dressed all in dark clothing and the second in light coloured trousers and a dark coloured top, walking along Oak Road at 2.34am."

So I don't think the timing fits for PR. The couple in the third clip may have seen something though.

The key CCTV which could hold clues to Libby's homicide investigation

I don't think we'll be hearing any more about the 'running man' and Croda CCTV. It's an isolated area and very quiet at night. I feel it was a case of police trying to track potential witnesses because they were there during a particular window of time, and nothing more.

 

[mrazda71]

Also, we should remember that the jurors are seeing EVERYTHING and they're not obsessed with murders like 'we' are, they won't be over analysing every little thing that's said by every witness - I think some if not most will already have got the measure of PR and already know which way they're leaning.

I could go back to every case and find posts from some of you saying 'not sure it's enough' and yet the jury always does think it's enough ... have faith 'fam', have faith.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Also, we should remember that the jurors are seeing EVERYTHING and they're not obsessed with murders like 'we' are, they won't be over analysing every little thing that's said by every witness - I think some if not most will already have got the measure of PR and already know which way they're leaning.

I could go back to every case and find posts from some of you saying 'not sure it's enough' and yet the jury always does think it's enough ... have faith 'fam', have faith.

Thank you, you’re so right about over-analysing - the jury are dealing with a nice package of facts whereas we’ve spent two years nitpicking all the ifs and buts.

I’ll still be on the edge of my seat at verdict o’clock though!

 

[Newthoughts]

Wouldn't a 'reasonable person' think that if a convicted multiple sex offender stalks a vulnerable young girl, pulls, manhandles her, gets her in his car, drives her to a dark secluded place, causes her to scream, rapes her (potentially takes her underwear as his usual trophy) then leaves, goes home to bathe and then back out to the scene of the rape then commits another sex offence before going home again, cleans his car the next day, lies to his friends, his wife, his family and police ... think that he's the reason that that vulnerable girl was found dead in the water?

I consider myself a reasonable person, if you ask me, which do you think is the most likely story? I'd say, its more logical and realistic that she died at his hands.

I'm confident the jury will think the same.

Yes!!

 

[porkypies]

It’s so complicated and I’m
No good at explaining- but what concerns me is, Libby potentially would have passed away that night even if she had not met PR. So to some degree they have to prove he wasn’t helping her, there was a more devious purpose.

When PR encountered Libby at the Endsleigh entrance, she was not far from home and heading in the right direction for her road. He was very local and very familiar with the local area, but he does not mention asking her where she lives until after she is in his car (doors locked?) yet he does suggest that he give her a lift home. In the car, he says that he asks if she knows where she lives and she says she will show him.
My point is, that if she could show him at all, it was so close that it might have been possible to begin with, if they had walked there, and he could have supported her to get there - but he neither asked her where she lived nor suggest that, because he wasn't going there anyway, he took her to his car instead.
But she was not in a state to show anyone how to get her home once in a car which then drove in almost a circle and did a few turns here and there before stopping at oak road, a much greater distance from her home.
PR, whose first language is not English and who has needed a translator throughout his dealings with the (sober) police, has been able to report every word she said to him, clearly and with confidence, yet other people who have not needed translators have reported that they could not understand much of what she was saying because her speech was so slurred and indistinct, and it even seems that Libby became frustrated with them for this reason. PR did not need to know what she was saying.
Also: from his own various reports of what happened in a very short journey in his car (5mins?) PR has reported that she tried to undo his trousers, scratched his face and took of her own knickers all whilst directing him to her home, he did not stop the car until he arrived at a very secluded and lonely place which he also knew very well.
That's why I don't think he was trying to help her.