UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #19

[Cherwell]

Definitely Oak Road - it's quoted in the testimony - will try and find it
edited to add the testimony
Mr Alford lived in a property that backed on to Oak Road playing fields when Libby disappeared.

Thanks, Alyce, I've seen it now.
He also says "the man he saw running away from Oak Road" which suggests to me that the man must have been heading towards Beresford Avenue.
But he then tones it down to a walk, albeit a fast one "moving with an urgency".

 

[Vermont24]

It looks like a road / alleyway by your green circle. Is that a tenfoot? It looks like there is parking there

Green circle is still Oak Road. It's bollarded, so no entrance to vehicles or parking, but continues as a track along the edge of the playing fields until it reaches Beverley Road close to The Cross Keys Pub.

 

[Alyce]

Hang on - the Hull live report now says there was NO evidence of small hemorrhages around her mouth which could be evidence of asphyxia. Are they editing their reports? We're going to have to be careful about relying on the quotes in the thread if that's the case.

Here's the new version in full


No evidence of asphyxia' on Libby's face
Dr Lyall carried out an external and internal examination.

Libby had two lacerations inside her top lip which could not be ruled out as having happened when she was in the water, Dr Lyall said. He said it was conclusive with blunt trauma in that area.

He said there was no evidence of small hemorrhages around her mouth which could be evidence of asphyxia.

Dr Lyall said: “It’s not conclusive but is something we look out for. It is like a little bruise but you tend to see lots of them at once around the lips or the eyes.

“They are a useful marker of it.”

He added that hemorrhages could represent squeezing or compression of the neck or covering of the mouth.

 

[elliefant]

The new version is more consistent with the pathologist’s testimony under cross examination. I’ll try to find the bit I mean.

eta : see #828 below

 

[CoverMeCagney]

My circle is too far to the right..some discussion earlier as not sure if its the lodge or the houses in the street backing onto park

Its definitely the lodge. Don’t want to post the full address but it’s easily found on google.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Here's the new version in full


No evidence of asphyxia' on Libby's face
Dr Lyall carried out an external and internal examination.

Libby had two lacerations inside her top lip which could not be ruled out as having happened when she was in the water, Dr Lyall said. He said it was conclusive with blunt trauma in that area.

He said there was no evidence of small hemorrhages around her mouth which could be evidence of asphyxia.

Dr Lyall said: “It’s not conclusive but is something we look out for. It is like a little bruise but you tend to see lots of them at once around the lips or the eyes.

“They are a useful marker of it.”

He added that hemorrhages could represent squeezing or compression of the neck or covering of the mouth.

Interesting. Are there any other news outlets reporting that we can look at to see if the wording matches? Hopefully mistakes are picked up prior to posting and this one slipped by.

edit: spelling

 

[Newthoughts]

15:53
Cause of death unascertained
Dr Lyall says he was not able to determine how Libby Squire died.

He concluded her cause of death remains unascertained.

The pathologist has looked at other mechanisms that could explain her death.

He said: “I have to have an idea of what is relevant and I could explore the different possibilities as I saw them and how they detailed the autopsy findings.”

Dr Lyall said these included looking at possibilities that Libby had drowned, had hypothermia or had been subjected to a violent assault.

He said: “A subtle asphyxial death remains a possibility, this could be some kind of smothering or neck pressure or a combination of both.”

But he added: “While drowning remains possible I am not prepared to say it is the likely explanation for her death.”

He added the level of decomposition to the body made the post-mortem examination harder and said: “There could have been injuries - we just can’t see them.”

Dr Lyall still determined the cause of death was unascertained.

Libby Squire trial live: Lifeboat crews describe discovery of body

Reading between the lines of scientific caution:
"A subtle asphyxial death remains a possibility, this could be some kind of smothering or neck pressure or a combination of both"

"While drowning remains possible I am not prepared to say it is the likely explanation for her death"

IMOO he doesn't think she drowned at all but there isn't enough evidence left to completely exclude it and so a defence lawyer would crucify him if he tried to say so.

In the absence of anything else asphyxiation remains the only thing he can think of.

That's just my opinion. Perhaps a less combatative legal system would be better here

 

[elliefant]

See bolded bit below

16:20
Dr Lyall cross-examined
Oliver Saxby QC has said: “The pathological evidence does not establish that she was killed does it?”

Dr Lyall has replied: “No.”

Mr Saxby is looking at Dr Lyall’s possibilities, which include drowning.

He said evidence such as foaming and fluid indicates drowning and said: “Even if there wasn’t, that isn’t to say she didn’t drown correct? And signs originally that were present can change and become undetectable over time, correct? And that is relevant because she was sadly in the water for around seven weeks.

“If, you were having to prove that she had drowned, well then the pathological evidence wouldn’t help would it?”

Dr Lyall said, “No, I don’t think so. It is on the basis of the pathology she could have drowned.”

Mr Saxby is asking about asphyxiation. He said: “There were none of the signs that you usually see when that happens?”

Dr Lyall said: “That’s correct.”

Libby Squire trial live: Lifeboat crews describe discovery of body

 

[Cherwell]

The new version is more consistent with the pathologist’s testimony under cross examination. I’ll try to find the bit I mean.

Yes, I was surprised when I read that because I thought he had said the opposite. That's when I went back to check the original report as copied into the thread, and then found that the source had since been edited.

The problem for us is that we can't go back and correct the posts because of the short window for editing.

 

[Alyce]

And The Sun is now quoting this.....




Dr Lyall conducted a post-mortem examination on Libby’s body on March 21, 2019 at Hull Royal Infirmary.

He told the court that Libby's bruised body had been found with "neck marks."

He said he has found evidence of small hemorrhages around her mouth which could be evidence of asphyxia.

He explained the hemorrhages could represent squeezing or compression of the neck or covering of the mouth.

He said: “It’s not conclusive but is something we look out for.

"It is like a little bruise but you tend to see lots of them at once around the lips or the eyes."

“They are a useful marker of it.”



Local heard 'desperate' screams for 7 minutes the night Libby disappeared

 

[Newthoughts]

See bolded bit below

That still leaves the problem of her getting into the river to drown. Barely able to walk. Just been raped. Stopped screaming before he is seen leaving. No mention at all from him that she was headed towards or even near the river.

 

[Cherwell]

Re parking. I imagine that he just parked the car somewhere on Oak Road near the park entrance. There's plenty of room and no need to drive along a tenfoot. If you look at the satellite view of the area (not Streetview) there's a white vehicle parked on the road. I expect that's what PR did.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Could the Sun be using the Hull’s report? I know that happens in my area. Some news agency just copy another’s story. Although they do credit the original source.

 

[Alyce]

Richard Wright QC, prosecuting, asked what the screams conveyed to him.

Mr Alford replied: “Like, desperation.”

He said the screaming went on for an estimated four to seven minutes.

After going to the toilet briefly, he looked out of his window, on to a skate park, but could not see anything initially.

Mr Alford said there was a full moon and snow, so the visibility was good, and after a few minutes he saw a man crossing the park.

He told the jury: “There was an urgency about the way he was moving.

“He was moving with a purpose, he didn’t look back once.”


Yahoo is now a part of Verizon Media

 

[Cherwell]

Could the Sun be using the Hull’s report? I know that happens in my area. Some news agency just copy another’s story. Although they do credit the original source.

Yes, but they've copied the uncorrected version! With a massive error in it!

 

[ChiCubs2016]

Yes, but they've copied the uncorrected version! With a massive error in it!

Exactly.

 

[Alyce]

Could the Sun be using the Hull’s report? I know that happens in my area. Some news agency just copy another’s story. Although they do credit the original source.

Yes almost certainly they are - but as Cherwell says, with the wrong info

 

[elliefant]

That still leaves the problem of her getting into the river to drown. Barely able to walk. Just been raped. Stopped screaming before he is seen leaving. No mention at all from him that she was headed towards or even near the river.

I’m not sure if you meant to quote me, sorry. I was just discussing the point about the earlier misprint.

@Cherwell yes it jarred with me at the time but I just thought I must be getting muddled. Very well done to you for backtracking and solving it, impressive.

 

[Newthoughts]

I’m not sure if you meant to quote me, sorry. I was just discussing the point about the earlier misprint.

@Cherwell yes it jarred with me at the time but I just thought I must be getting muddled. Very well done to you for backtracking and solving it, impressive.

Sorry should have posted the original as I was referring to the drowning rather than the misprint. Apologies

 

[tigerowl]

Croda CCTV is some distance away. For clarity, here are the entrances:

Red circle - entrance to car park. Locked outside of 'business hours'. This can be quite early during winter
Green circle - a gap in the treeline. The park can always be entered on foot here. This is most likely, to me.
Yellow circle - there's a gate here, though I believe this is also locked out of hours.

I think it's the yellow circle. Unless I am getting mixed up with your green circle, you can park near the yellow circle gate and it isn't usually locked out of hours. You can only enter it by foot. It's one of those S type gates. This would be the quickest access to the park and the closest place to park if he wants her out the car and onto the field quickly.