UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #3

[Seattle1]

But for 5 months she said he fell down the stairs. Then we have her telling RH that he fell, that the youth pushed him and that a woman told the youth to push him.

It could be true the youth did it, it could be that he didn’t. We cannot trust a word that woman says she has told lie after lie. They all have. I don’t recall any mention of the stairs incident being investigated, but then it could also have been redacted from the reporting.

There's no dispute that AW is no friend to the truth. However, there are repercussions to making false statements to the police. To my knowledge, she's was not now or previously charged with such an offense so I think it fair to give more credibility to this allegation-- especially since it occurred far in advance of Logan's murder.

And technically, I suppose the same can probably be said about the allegation by the foster parent that the youth abused their disabled dog since I recall the social services worker disputing that the foster family previously disclosed the behavior by the teen. Believe whatever you choose.

I agree -- given it all involves the youth -- we may never know the truth pursuant to legal reasons protecting minors. MOO

 

[Tortoise]

But for 5 months she said he fell down the stairs. Then we have her telling RH that he fell, that the youth pushed him and that a woman told the youth to push him.

It could be true the youth did it, it could be that he didn’t. We cannot trust a word that woman says she has told lie after lie. They all have. I don’t recall any mention of the stairs incident being investigated, but then it could also have been redacted from the reporting.

This part wasn't reported in the live blog -

"Melanie Smith, a health visitor of 25 years, [...]

Ms Smith said that in the months that followed, a suggestion arose that the teenage defendant had pushed Logan down the stairs.

Williamson later said Logan must have fallen down the stairs by himself because everyone else had been sitting downstairs at the time."


also another (unrelated) new piece of info - it seems the 27th was an overnight stay at JC's :

"Mr Williams was one of the last people, outside of the immediate family, to see Logan alive, having spoken to him briefly during a FaceTime call with Cole just after midnight on July 27, 2021."

Logan Mwangi made to face wall 'for 30 minutes' as punishment, court told | ITV News

 

[tedtink]

This part wasn't reported in the live blog -

"Melanie Smith, a health visitor of 25 years, [...]

Ms Smith said that in the months that followed, a suggestion arose that the teenage defendant had pushed Logan down the stairs.

Williamson later said Logan must have fallen down the stairs by himself because everyone else had been sitting downstairs at the time."


also another (unrelated) new piece of info - it seems the 27th was an overnight stay at JC's :

"Mr Williams was one of the last people, outside of the immediate family, to see Logan alive, having spoken to him briefly during a FaceTime call with Cole just after midnight on July 27, 2021."

Logan Mwangi made to face wall 'for 30 minutes' as punishment, court told | ITV News

Yes, IIRC didn't the witness say LM was sitting on the stairs colouring ? The best he'd been LM in ages or words to that effect.

No stairs at AW's

 

[tedtink]

DBM _ Already replied to by another poster.

 

[Dotta]

My prediction:

JC - guilty of murder: 25 years

AW - guilty of allowing...., pervertingCoJ: 15 years, free in 8years (more or less)

The youth: till 18 or 21 years old in some Institution, then free.

 

[Seattle1]

I'd forgotten that, unlike AW and JC that are seated next to each other in the dock, the youth has been attending the trial by videolink.

Logan Mwangi made to face wall 'for 30 minutes' as punishment, court told | ITV News

 

[Seattle1]

Logan Mwangi murder trial told youth threw boy down stairs

16 March 2022

A teenager accused of murdering a five-year-old had previously pushed him down stairs and broke his arm, a court has heard.

[..]

Logan's mother made the call to police in January 2021 and begged for help.

She said: "We thought he'd fallen down the stairs" but that the youth "was the one who pushed him".

[..]

A family support worker, who knew the youth when he was eight, described him as aggressive.

She said her initial encounter with the youth, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was "the most difficult engagement session I've ever done with a child".

He regularly had outbursts at school, would punch holes through walls and doors, and would lash out for any sort of attention, she said.

He was enrolled in martial arts lessons to try and contain his outbursts.

The manager at a martial arts centre where the youth had previously been a member, told the court he had skills in Muay Thai, including "body punches, elbow punches, kicks, head holds and sparring".

The court also heard from a teacher who supported the youth when he was in Year 6, describing how he was verbally abusive, had violent outbursts and would punch and kick other children.

 

[tedtink]

I think JC's and the Youths disposal of LM's body and pyjama top together is very interesting.
It comes across as 'were in this together', supporting each other, covering each other.
I think the youth said something like 'I wanted to make sure he was OK', meaning JC.
I think they both knew each other played a part in LM's murder.


JMO.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Well, if we're playing predictions, this is my opinion.

I think JC will go down for murder and won't see the light of day again one way or another.

I think AW's defence will paint a picture of her being under JC's coercive control and there'll be enough doubt among the jury that she'll get a NG verdict for murder but will be found guilty of causing or allowing the death of a child. She's bang to rights on perverting the course of justice, no getting out of that imo. I think her sentence will be lighter than most of us will be happy with. All this supposes her defence manage to keep her off the stand. If she insists on having her say, she'll go down for the lot imo. Pure crystal ball gazing, but I wouldn't rule out something dramatic at the last minute, like her dispensing with her defence purely so she can disregard them and do it.

I think the juvenile defendant will be found guilty of murder. I think he will be detained at her majesty's pleasure with the hope of release after rehabilitation, but I think he'll struggle to meet the threshold required for that to happen. I'm very curious to know if he'll be named eventually; if I had to guess, I'd say he will not, even though it's increasingly common to lift the anonymity order after conviction.

All pure speculation and opinion only.

 

[Seattle1]

Well, if we're playing predictions, this is my opinion.

I think JC will go down for murder and won't see the light of day again one way or another.

I think AW's defence will paint a picture of her being under JC's coercive control and there'll be enough doubt among the jury that she'll get a NG verdict for murder but will be found guilty of causing or allowing the death of a child. She's bang to rights on perverting the course of justice, no getting out of that imo. I think her sentence will be lighter than most of us will be happy with. All this supposes her defence manage to keep her off the stand. If she insists on having her say, she'll go down for the lot imo. Pure crystal ball gazing, but I wouldn't rule out something dramatic at the last minute, like her dispensing with her defence purely so she can disregard them and do it.

I think the juvenile defendant will be found guilty of murder. I think he will be detained at her majesty's pleasure with the hope of release after rehabilitation, but I think he'll struggle to meet the threshold required for that to happen. I'm very curious to know if he'll be named eventually; if I had to guess, I'd say he will not, even though it's increasingly common to lift the anonymity order after conviction.

All pure speculation and opinion only.

I agree.

Independent persons have provided that the teen had a history of being aggressive since age 8.

He was also trained to kick and often kicked and body punched other students -- traits indicative of fatal injuries endured by Logan.

I hope he will accept the help provided to him during detention at conviction but I won't be surprised if he follows JC's path and ends up being a lifer.

As for AW, I'm sorry she was so desperate for male attention that she exposed Logan to violent men from his earliest years. It's so tragic because Logan was very much beloved by others and he could have had a good home elsewhere--away from AW, including his grandmother and bio-dad. MOO

 

[VixenLeaf]

Firstly I'm sorry for the experience you had.

Secondly, I'm not sure why you think I'm arguing that the youth isn't culpable or capable of making good or bad choices - I'm saying neither.

My point was very clear - at 13 he was violently beaten by his mother and removed from her care for HIS safety - He was the victim and no one should be inventing worst case scenarios that might make it okay for his mother to have done that to him.

Thirdly - another poster said that 14 year olds were "nearly grown men" and that is just in every way, false.

We need to stick to the facts, don't we?
Base our opinions on what little we know from the reporting... not make up inaccurate and baseless imaginings.

Do you have a link for him being removed from his mother at 13? For some reason I thought it was earlier. Thanks

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I think JC's and the Youths disposal of LM's body and pyjama top together is very interesting.
It comes across as 'were in this together', supporting each other, covering each other.
I think the youth said something like 'I wanted to make sure he was OK', meaning JC.
I think they both knew each other played a part in LM's murder.


JMO.

That PJ top was ripped into bits as well. I first assumed there was a slight rip to the collar maybe, but the evidence was that it was destroyed way beyond what a violent grab would have caused. They all mentioned it though (if I remember correctly) so it has relevance.

I think JC or the so called youth tore it up violently and put it in the woods thinking it wouldn’t be found. Why did they need to hide it? They must have thought something incriminating was on it. There was no blood according to dna. Tearing it like that, suggests anger to me, rage even. Did that happen indoors, and that rage was the evidence that needed hiding?

Lying about the PJ top brings them all together in what happened. It’s important, IMO.

 

[mrazda71]

Do you have a link for him being removed from his mother at 13? For some reason I thought it was earlier. Thanks

I'll rephrase .... 'by' the age of 13 ...

In all liklihood, he was almost certainly much younger, which makes it even worse and even more insightful as to why he is, how he is.

 

[VixenLeaf]

This rather begs the question who AW was phoning in the middle of the night. Or perhaps she accessed the app at 2.26am with a view to calling emergency services (although not sure why as wouldn’t you just use your regular phone?) but was prevented from reporting then?

I’m wondering whether she was in fact acutely aware of her son’s potentially perilous condition (not not entirely “neglectful” as she was concerned) but knew that she or other people in the house were responsible so was looking to take care of it herself and hoped Logan would just recover under his own devices. I wonder whether her mindless scrolling through YouTube videos etc was as a means of staying awake demonstrating that she was concerned about him and checking up on him constantly.

Then she/they discover he’s dead but at this point JC takes over and in her shocked state she defers to him for the stupid plan they then, all 3 of them, possibly concocted. I am not sure AW was possibly aware of quite how serious Logan’s condition was, but by the time it was too late she then panicked and in her shocked desperate state allowed someone with far more to lose to take over (or someone less emotionally attached at that point, JC, to take over) . I think she has made herself possibly look more guilty than she was by participating in the stupid plan - but her attempt to explain this away by being “asleep” has made things worse for herself. I wonder whether she is guilty of PTCJ but perhaps was actually a more concerned mother than her own story credits herself with. But she’s decided to stick with it now - because she knows telling the truth about her concern and checking up on Logan throughout the night etc etc betrays the fact that she knew deep down something was not quite right but potently overrode her maternal instincts in favour of hoping for the best and protecting JC. But she doesn’t feel she can change her story now as she knows the constant lying will make her look more guilty and highlight that she suspected Logan was unwell and she didn’t do anything about it. But maybe she wasn’t fully aware of how utterly deadly his injuries had been and so her shock and devastation the next day was actually real as she couldn’t quite believe that her negligent actions resulted in her son’s death?
All conjecture as I’m not in the court hearing all the evidence first hand (quite a lot is being garbled in its translation to the updates filtered through journalists). But I think I am a bit shades of grey on the whole she is just a terrible mother and guilty of murder and looking to simply get rid of her son as he didn’t fit in with her life with JC as some people on here seems to be erring on. I think she is guilty of not following her instincts, subjecting Logan to an unsafe environment etc etc. But I think the main culprits in terms of actual murder are the others on trial. But that she should be held very much responsible for putting him Logan in that position. MOO.

This rather begs the question who AW was phoning in the middle of the night. Or perhaps she accessed the app at 2.26am with a view to calling emergency services (although not sure why as wouldn’t you just use your regular phone?) but was prevented from reporting then?

I’m wondering whether she was in fact acutely aware of her son’s potentially perilous condition (not not entirely “neglectful” as she was concerned) but knew that she or other people in the house were responsible so was looking to take care of it herself and hoped Logan would just recover under his own devices. I wonder whether her mindless scrolling through YouTube videos etc was as a means of staying awake demonstrating that she was concerned about him and checking up on him constantly.

Then she/they discover he’s dead but at this point JC takes over and in her shocked state she defers to him for the stupid plan they then, all 3 of them, possibly concocted. I am not sure AW was possibly aware of quite how serious Logan’s condition was, but by the time it was too late she then panicked and in her shocked desperate state allowed someone with far more to lose to take over (or someone less emotionally attached at that point, JC, to take over) . I think she has made herself possibly look more guilty than she was by participating in the stupid plan - but her attempt to explain this away by being “asleep” has made things worse for herself. I wonder whether she is guilty of PTCJ but perhaps was actually a more concerned mother than her own story credits herself with. But she’s decided to stick with it now - because she knows telling the truth about her concern and checking up on Logan throughout the night etc etc betrays the fact that she knew deep down something was not quite right but potently overrode her maternal instincts in favour of hoping for the best and protecting JC. But she doesn’t feel she can change her story now as she knows the constant lying will make her look more guilty and highlight that she suspected Logan was unwell and she didn’t do anything about it. But maybe she wasn’t fully aware of how utterly deadly his injuries had been and so her shock and devastation the next day was actually real as she couldn’t quite believe that her negligent actions resulted in her son’s death?
All conjecture as I’m not in the court hearing all the evidence first hand (quite a lot is being garbled in its translation to the updates filtered through journalists). But I think I am a bit shades of grey on the whole she is just a terrible mother and guilty of murder and looking to simply get rid of her son as he didn’t fit in with her life with JC as some people on here seems to be erring on. I think she is guilty of not following her instincts, subjecting Logan to an unsafe environment etc etc. But I think the main culprits in terms of actual murder are the others on trial. But that she should be held very much responsible for putting him Logan in that position. MOO.

This rather begs the question who AW was phoning in the middle of the night. Or perhaps she accessed the app at 2.26am with a view to calling emergency services (although not sure why as wouldn’t you just use your regular phone?) but was prevented from reporting then?

I’m wondering whether she was in fact acutely aware of her son’s potentially perilous condition (not not entirely “neglectful” as she was concerned) but knew that she or other people in the house were responsible so was looking to take care of it herself and hoped Logan would just recover under his own devices. I wonder whether her mindless scrolling through YouTube videos etc was as a means of staying awake demonstrating that she was concerned about him and checking up on him constantly.

Then she/they discover he’s dead but at this point JC takes over and in her shocked state she defers to him for the stupid plan they then, all 3 of them, possibly concocted. I am not sure AW was possibly aware of quite how serious Logan’s condition was, but by the time it was too late she then panicked and in her shocked desperate state allowed someone with far more to lose to take over (or someone less emotionally attached at that point, JC, to take over) . I think she has made herself possibly look more guilty than she was by participating in the stupid plan - but her attempt to explain this away by being “asleep” has made things worse for herself. I wonder whether she is guilty of PTCJ but perhaps was actually a more concerned mother than her own story credits herself with. But she’s decided to stick with it now - because she knows telling the truth about her concern and checking up on Logan throughout the night etc etc betrays the fact that she knew deep down something was not quite right but potently overrode her maternal instincts in favour of hoping for the best and protecting JC. But she doesn’t feel she can change her story now as she knows the constant lying will make her look more guilty and highlight that she suspected Logan was unwell and she didn’t do anything about it. But maybe she wasn’t fully aware of how utterly deadly his injuries had been and so her shock and devastation the next day was actually real as she couldn’t quite believe that her negligent actions resulted in her son’s death?
All conjecture as I’m not in the court hearing all the evidence first hand (quite a lot is being garbled in its translation to the updates filtered through journalists). But I think I am a bit shades of grey on the whole she is just a terrible mother and guilty of murder and looking to simply get rid of her son as he didn’t fit in with her life with JC as some people on here seems to be erring on. I think she is guilty of not following her instincts, subjecting Logan to an unsafe environment etc etc. But I think the main culprits in terms of actual murder are the others on trial. But that she should be held very much responsible for putting him Logan in that position. MOO.

Regarding using your ‘normal’ phone I think you’ll find most people use their mobile as their ‘normal’ phone now. Many dog even have a landline.

I agree with your take on the situation. I think she was up and worrying and I think she regularly went to dial 999 but got stopped.

 

[mrazda71]

I haven't had a landline/home phone for about 6 years! I was paying extra for it but it was never used, so it went. You used to need one to have home Internet but as soon as that was no longer necessary, no point.

With Mobil phones too, there's also WiFi calling versus network - 4g/5g etc calling too.

 

[Sherlockhames]

Regarding using your ‘normal’ phone I think you’ll find most people use their mobile as their ‘normal’ phone now. Many dog even have a landline.

I agree with your take on the situation. I think she was up and worrying and I think she regularly went to dial 999 but got stopped.

Sorry - wasn’t clear. I think I was drawing a distinction between the “dialler app” and the phone app on one’s phone. But I think it’s been cleared up that the “dialler app” is actually the same thing as the phone app (I have iPhone but would call the phone icon the “phone” rather than the dialler app. But I think this is what was meant when police say the “app” was accessed ie she was accessing the phone.

 

[RusselSprout]

Many dog even have a landline.

Many dogs have a landline haha. But you are quite correct, I no longer have a landline, well I have a landline for wifi, but no actual house phone.

 

[Alicethroughtheglass]

Regarding using your ‘normal’ phone I think you’ll find most people use their mobile as their ‘normal’ phone now. Many dog even have a landline.

I agree with your take on the situation. I think she was up and worrying and I think she regularly went to dial 999 but got stopped.

She may have been stopped but I think it’s just as likely she chose to stop. I understand the argument of coercive control however I’m not sure much evidence has been presented for that argument as of yet. Personally IMO I feel AW is more responsible for Logan’s physical abuse than simply not intervening, not necessarily the fatal injuries but Certainly in the past. They have admitted to smacking Logan as punishment at least. I do believe she is a lot more culpable than perhaps others do at this current time.


ETA I do think JC Was a domestic abuser, and was using coercive control- to clarify my point about the lack of ‘evidence’ I meant more song the lines of a legal argument, rather than dismissing the idea. She was cut off from people, and if she is to be believed he lied about his military and criminal past to scare her.

 

[mrazda71]

I don't know if I can accurately guess what the verdicts will be because the jury will have heard and seen so much more than us, but I do think that it's going to be a long wait for that verdict ... I'm guessing a week of deliberations, at least.

 

[Alyce]

I agree.

Independent persons have provided that the teen had a history of being aggressive since age 8.

He was also trained to kick and often kicked and body punched other students -- traits indicative of fatal injuries endured by Logan.

I hope he will accept the help provided to him during detention at conviction but I won't be surprised if he follows JC's path and ends up being a lifer.

As for AW, I'm sorry she was so desperate for male attention that she exposed Logan to violent men from his earliest years. It's so tragic because Logan was very much beloved by others and he could have had a good home elsewhere--away from AW, including his grandmother and bio-dad. MOO

I agree re the youth. I think he will be a difficult prisoner, once he has to face the reality of being a convicted criminal. I also think he will be detained for much longer than whatever low sentence he is initially given and will spend many years in adult prison.