UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #3

[neteditor]

I couldn’t possibly comment on why there were legal submissions without the jury today, it could have been a number of things. I was just outlining that the intended defence is submitted in advance. So for her story to change this late in the day it would raise a lot of questions and as has been raised by Sherlockhames one of those questions would be why change her story now?

Sorry I didn't mean to be confusing. I just meant that I believe submissions will have been made, I've not heard anything which might suggest otherwise (and today's questioning suggests it has). And also perhaps (MOO not suggesting it's your view) today's adjournment for AW's counsel was connected. If new evidence for the defence comes up late during a trial, it doesn't prevent it being introduced upon agreement of the judge and other counsel.

 

[neteditor]

Frankie Smith also came out with new evidence during her testimony in the star hobson case. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. More that the court/jury may be somewhat skeptical if she does.

Not disagreeing that point at all!

 

[ChloLo]

The testimony does make it clear that part of the cross-examination was about the August 2020 'falling down stairs' incident., which was the same incident talked about in the agreed facts.

in full -

'I said you need to take him to hospital because it’s not right'

Mr Rouch said: “When Logan damaged his arm, you and Angharad were in the kitchen.”

Cole agreed.

Mr Rouch said: “You heard a thud, something had happened, where was Logan?”

Cole said: “He was on the landing in the middle.”

Mr Rouch said: “Was his arm floppy?”

Cole said: “Yes.”

Mr Rouch said: “Did you and Angharad look to see what the damage was?”

Cole said: “Angharad put his arm back in the socket.”

Mr Rouch said: “Did you see what the problem was?”

Cole said: “I didn’t do nothing with his arm.”

Mr Rouch said: “You said because of your experience in the SAS you could put the arm back in and strap it up.”

Cole said: “I wouldn’t have popped his shoulder, I didn’t do his arm…. I was the one who said Angharad needed to take his arm to the hospital.”

Mr Rouch said: “You were both reluctant to go to hospital because of Covid.”

Cole said: “I said you need to take him to hospital because it’s not right.”

Mr Rouch said: “She said because of your convictions she said she would say she had put the arm back in.”

Cole said: “No.”

Logan Mwangi murder trial continues with defendant giving evidence

Yes this is talking about the fall down the stairs incident. Social workers or health professionals testified to making a referral due to the delay in time in seeking medical advice. AW took I’m the next day. This is august 2020. So maybeJC is claiming that the day it happened he needed to be taken to the hospital at the time AW said she was putting it back in. Or whoever did that.

Then there’s the second clavicle injury that was more recent, wasn’t healing well and there was no record of Logan receiving treatment for. That incident is now being claimed that Logan fell off a wheelchair in the kitchen while AW and JC were in the garden trying to catch a snake. I’ll find a MSM link now.
Eta MSM link:
Mum and stepdad put son's body in bag, trial told - BBC News

 

[ChloLo]

Sorry I didn't mean to be confusing. I just meant that I believe submissions will have been made, I've not heard anything which might suggest otherwise (and today's questioning suggests it has). And also perhaps (MOO not suggesting it's your view) today's adjournment for AW's counsel was connected. If new evidence for the defence comes up late during a trial, it doesn't prevent it being introduced upon agreement of the judge and other counsel.

Oh I wasn’t suggesting there weren’t submissions. Just that it may not just be her changing her story.

 

[Tortoise]

Yes this is talking about the fall down the stairs incident. Social workers or health professionals testified to making a referral due to the delay in time in seeking medical advice. AW took I’m the next day. This is august 2020. So maybeJC is claiming that the day it happened he needed to be taken to the hospital at the time AW said she was putting it back in. Or whoever did that.

Then there’s the second clavicle injury that was more recent, wasn’t healing well and there was no record of Logan receiving treatment for. That incident is now being claimed that Logan fell off a wheelchair in the kitchen while AW and JC were in the garden trying to catch a snake. I’ll find a MSM link now.

I don't get the confusion.

I'm not referring at all to the wheelchair incident/most recent fracture.

I was pointing out that in the agreed facts yesterday AW popped Logan's shoulder back in.

AW's barrister today was trying to get JC to agree that he popped the shoulder back in and AW only said she did it to protect JC.

It's a change in AW's narrative.

 

[ChloLo]

Also from WalesOnline:

“
The defendant was also asked about a fracture to Logan’s collarbone several weeks before his death.

Mr Elias said: “Were you aware at any stage of last year of a fracture that he had?”

Cole said: “I weren’t aware of a fracture. I know he hurt his shoulder after falling off a wheelchair but neither of us were aware of a fracture.”

The defendant said he and Williamson were trying to capture a snake in the garden when Logan caused that injury.

Mr Elias said: “Was he in pain?”

Cole said: “No, he had a mark by his shoulder but it didn’t look broken.”

Mr Elias said: “Did he miss school?”

Cole said: “No.”

Mr Elias said: “Did Logan have any medical treatment?”

Cole said: “We don’t believe he needed it.”

BBM
Logan Mwangi murder trial continues with defendant giving evidence

 

[ChloLo]

I don't get the confusion.

I'm not referring at all to the wheelchair incident/most recent fracture.

I was pointing out that in the agreed facts yesterday AW popped Logan's shoulder back in.

AW's barrister today was trying to get JC to agree that he popped the shoulder back in and AW only said she did it to protect JC.

It's a change in AW's narrative.

Sorry my mistake.

 

[Doris777]

I'm going to just put this out there..doesn't mean I agree or disagree.

Has anyone ever thought that AW might be the only one that killed Logan and is making John look like the guilty one because he's known to the police so people will point the finger and him and the youth? Because both have troubles pasts.. because who would blame the mother...?!
I have known some very controling woman who are bloody clever with how they speak and act and will make everyone else look bad just so they themselves look perfect...even though there not! I think the night Logan was killed she's kicked off with John and made him take Logan to the river and John's told the youth to come to protect him. I know it sounds out there but I could see it happen...and the second time they went out to look for Logan he's spoken to the youth and told him to stay quiet and not speak to police ect. John's story hasn't changed but AWs has. The youth is messed up in the head and probably doesn't know what to say or do so he's tried to stick to the story John has told so he's.not going to get into to much trouble.

Something doesn't sit right with me.

I do believe people can turn there lives around easily. Especially after the death of a loved one,(his sister) and he's kept his head down. So maybe it's AW that's the controling partner..not him.


Just my opinion. Thinking out loud.

Guess we wont ever know the full truths

 

[JuicyLucy]

I think her relationship with Logan changed just because she a selfish witch and put her own desire for a relationship above her relationship with her son.

She may or may not be selfish but having a relationship isn't a selfish thing per se. And people, even selfish people, manage to look after their children properly while maintaining romantic relationships. She'd been in a relationship before (with her ex-husband) without her relationship with Logan suffering, as far as we know, and without losing sufficient perspective that she couldn't walk away when the marriage went bad.

I don't think selfishness alone explains such an extreme change. Just my opinion.

 

[Dotta]

She may or may not be selfish but having a relationship isn't a selfish thing per se. And people, even selfish people, manage to look after their children properly while maintaining romantic relationships. She'd been in a relationship before (with her ex-husband) without her relationship with Logan suffering, as far as we know, and without losing sufficient perspective that she couldn't walk away when the marriage went bad.

I don't think selfishness alone explains such an extreme change. Just my opinion.

But another child arrived (a baby) and relationship between JC and Logan was a ticking bomb.

 

[neteditor]

She may or may not be selfish but having a relationship isn't a selfish thing per se. And people, even selfish people, manage to look after their children properly while maintaining romantic relationships. She'd been in a relationship before (with her ex-husband) without her relationship with Logan suffering, as far as we know, and without losing sufficient perspective that she couldn't walk away when the marriage went bad.

I don't think selfishness alone explains such an extreme change. Just my opinion.

Sorry, I can't remember who suggested this before, but I agreed... the new baby was a trigger of some sort. Digging into the hows and whys is beyond me without lots of wild speculation, which I dislike, but it seems to me a lot changed then.

Edit: Sorry @Dotta we cross posted, perhaps it was you who said it before, if so thank you I borrowed your thought.

 

[tedtink]

She may or may not be selfish but having a relationship isn't a selfish thing per se. And people, even selfish people, manage to look after their children properly while maintaining romantic relationships. She'd been in a relationship before (with her ex-husband) without her relationship with Logan suffering, as far as we know, and without losing sufficient perspective that she couldn't walk away when the marriage went bad.

I don't think selfishness alone explains such an extreme change. Just my opinion.

An extreme change could be due to stress. Leaving her Mother who seemed to share a lot of responsibility looking after Logan and her Mother had said she and AW were close.
Stress having a 'difficult' youth in/out the house, all related problems there too.
Stress of having a baby or worrying about her own health constantly.
I've known lots of children become very insecure when a new partner or baby come into their lives, of course that depends on how it's handled by the parents, but IF LM's behavior did indeed change, so maybe did AW's or maybe AW's changed first and LM subconsciously picked up on her stress.
LM would have had to cope with loss too, his Father possibly and his Grandmother and not being at school during Covid - Inconsistency.
That's a lot of instability for a 'melodramatic' person too.
Maybe AW didn't have the necessary emotional tools to be able to cope with his alleged bad behavior.


JMO

 

[Dotta]

Edit: Sorry @Dotta we cross posted, perhaps it was you who said it before, if so thank you I borrowed your thought.

No, it wasn't me
I only now mentioned the baby.

 

[Dotta]

Well, one thing is obvious to me.

JC is a shameless liar.
He lies through his teeth:

- SAS and IPP sentence (both AW and his gaming partner testimony)

- attacking AW, grabbing her throat (AW's friend evidence)

- the youth not harming Logan
(the teen confessed to staircase incident).

 

[Seattle1]

Well, one thing is obvious to me.

JC is a shameless liar.
He lies through his teeth:

- SAS and IPP sentence (both AW and his gaming partner testimony)

- attacking AW, grabbing her throat (AW's friend evidence)

- the youth not harming Logan
(the teen confessed to staircase incident).

Absolutely agree!

<modsnip>If I had to guess, I think the majority of his crime-free years coincided with a period where he was not exposed to stepchildren and/or a carer.

I think he was also endeared by AW's neediness of him.

I think when JC became custodian of the youth, similar to a gang leader, he had a self-importance role to fullfill-- including false military and SAS bravado. JC relished this alpha male role and would be very proud of the youth if he grew up in his image. MOO

 

[katydid23]

His testimony still doesn't strike me as the least bit credible though. I don't think anyone who's heard the list of Logan's injuries will believe for a moment that this man never laid a hand on him except for gentle 'taps on the hand'. At best, he may have managed to drag her down with him.

JMO

Yes, he is trying to lead the jury to believe that AW did all the physical violence towards her child.

But if that is true, why didn't he know about it? It is a very small house. Are we supposed to believe that all of those blows to his stomach and head were happening and he was not aware it was happening?

They both seemed to be hyper aware of any little thing that their 5 yr old did or said---they were constantly monitoring and 'correcting' and punishing him--making him stand in the naughty corner, or do exercises to burn off extra energy----but none of them noticed when the other was beating him to death?

 

[katydid23]

I'm going to just put this out there..doesn't mean I agree or disagree.

Has anyone ever thought that AW might be the only one that killed Logan and is making John look like the guilty one because he's known to the police so people will point the finger and him and the youth? Because both have troubles pasts.. because who would blame the mother...?!
I have known some very controling woman who are bloody clever with how they speak and act and will make everyone else look bad just so they themselves look perfect...even though there not! I think the night Logan was killed she's kicked off with John and made him take Logan to the river and John's told the youth to come to protect him. I know it sounds out there but I could see it happen...and the second time they went out to look for Logan he's spoken to the youth and told him to stay quiet and not speak to police ect. John's story hasn't changed but AWs has. The youth is messed up in the head and probably doesn't know what to say or do so he's tried to stick to the story John has told so he's.not going to get into to much trouble.

Something doesn't sit right with me.

I do believe people can turn there lives around easily. Especially after the death of a loved one,(his sister) and he's kept his head down. So maybe it's AW that's the controling partner..not him.


Just my opinion. Thinking out loud.

Guess we wont ever know the full truths

But if AW was physically beating Logan so severely, why wouldn't JC hear or see it or the physical affects of it on the boy? It is a small house. And they were quarantined together much of the time. How could she brutalise the child without JC knowing what was going on?

I think JC was lying about stuff---like saying the child was repeatedly jumping out of his bed, and onto his knees, and jumping over the baby gate and coming down to sit at the table but refusing to eat, and being defiant.

Knowing the severity of his internal injuries and broken bones and 56 bruises---there is no way he was doing any of that which JC is describing. JMO

 

[katydid23]

An extreme change could be due to stress. Leaving her Mother who seemed to share a lot of responsibility looking after Logan and her Mother had said she and AW were close.
Stress having a 'difficult' youth in/out the house, all related problems there too.
Stress of having a baby or worrying about her own health constantly.
I've known lots of children become very insecure when a new partner or baby come into their lives, of course that depends on how it's handled by the parents, but IF LM's behavior did indeed change, so maybe did AW's or maybe AW's changed first and LM subconsciously picked up on her stress.
LM would have had to cope with loss too, his Father possibly and his Grandmother and not being at school during Covid - Inconsistency.
That's a lot of instability for a 'melodramatic' person too.
Maybe AW didn't have the necessary emotional tools to be able to cope with his alleged bad behavior.


JMO

I agree with all of the above---but I still believe that ALL THREE of the suspects did physical damage to this sweet boy.

 

[Doris777]

But if AW was physically beating Logan so severely, why wouldn't JC hear or see it or the physical affects of it on the boy? It is a small house. And they were quarantined together much of the time. How could she brutalise the child without JC knowing what was going on?

I think JC was lying about stuff---like saying the child was repeatedly jumping out of his bed, and onto his knees, and jumping over the baby gate and coming down to sit at the table but refusing to eat, and being defiant.

Knowing the severity of his internal injuries and broken bones and 56 bruises---there is no way he was doing any of that which JC is describing. JMO

Like I said I'm just putting it out there that it's a possibility. It's always the same when things like this happen that men automatically get blamed for it. I have a feeling AW is very controling and she's making it look like the boys did everything to Logan... because u would never believe that the mother could do it. Do u get what I mean?

I'm not saying that's what happened but it's a possibility. I think everyone of them is messed up in the head from things we know nothing about. And now there all lying because no one wants to admit the truth, because that's to hard to admit. It's so easy to pass judgement on it just from snippets of media. I just hope and pray that justice is done for Logan. I really wouldn't want onbe on the jury on this one. It's going to be hard to make there mind up on who is guilty so far.
Maybe the next few days sheds more light on other things and more evidence.

All moo

 

[katydid23]

Like I said I'm just putting it out there that it's a possibility. It's always the same when things like this happen that men automatically get blamed for it. I have a feeling AW is very controling and she's making it look like the boys did everything to Logan... because u would never believe that the mother could do it. Do u get what I mean?

I'm not saying that's what happened but it's a possibility. I think everyone of them is messed up in the head from things we know nothing about. And now there all lying because no one wants to admit the truth, because that's to hard to admit. It's so easy to pass judgement on it just from snippets of media. I just hope and pray that justice is done for Logan. I really wouldn't want onbe on the jury on this one. It's going to be hard to make there mind up on who is guilty so far.
Maybe the next few days sheds more light on other things and more evidence.

All moo

I get what you are saying. We tend to blame men for physical violence before women.
But I absolutely know that many women are mean as snakes and have often killed their own children, brutally so.

In this case, I think they were all bullying and beating this sweet boy.