UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #3

[ChloLo]

It’s worth remembering that the youth will have both his solicitor and an appropriate adult present during the interviews.

I am of the opinion that the youth is retelling the story he’s been told to tell. It’s almost too detailed. He remembers what Logan was wearing but not what he was?

 

[Bluedaisy100]

It seems very telling about remembering all these details except his own clothes. Either this detail wasn't rehearsed or there's a reason to not remember.

 

[neteditor]

13:04PHILIP DEWEY
Youth told police he couldn't see what was in the black bags that were thrown into the river
The youth said he and Cole crossed a field by 5 Lower Llansantffraid, walked across a bridge, turned left and dumped the rubbish in the river. He said they later returned and stood on the bridge to see if the rubbish had gone.

DC Saunders: “Where did you decide to get rid of the bags?”

Youth: “Right at the bottom by the fence we threw it in the river…. I waited up there and he came back up.”

DC Saunders: “Was that lower down where you were standing?”

Youth: “Yes

DC Saunders: “Did you go down there?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “How long did (Cole) down there for?”

Youth: “10 seconds, not even that. He threw the bags and came up.”

DC Saunders: “What did (Cole) say when he did that?”

Youth: “He didn’t say anything…. We threw them down the river and they have gone down the river or somewhere.”

DC Saunders: “When you say it was ‘we’ who threw the bags?”

Youth: “He (Cole), I sometimes struggle with my words.”

DC Saunders: “What were you doing while you were waiting to go back down?”

Youth: “We sat in the living room.”

DC Saunders: “Were any lights on in the house?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “Why did you feel the need to check?”

Youth: “So we don’t get a thousand pound fine…. Because it’s fly tipping.”

DC Saunders: “Did Angharad wake at any time?”

Youth: “No she was asleep.”

DC Saunders: “Did you see or speak to Logan at this time?”

Youth: “No, we didn’t look in the rooms, we just left.”

The youth was asked if he could see the spot from the bridge where the rubbish had been dumped.

Youth: No…. We could already see the bag going. If they were going to be anywhere, they would be where we looked and they weren’t there.”

DC Saunders: “What was the lighting like?”

Youth: It was pitch black

DC Saunders: “Would you have been able to see the bag?”

Youth: “Not really no.”

 

[neteditor]

14:02PHILIP DEWEY
Trial resumes
The youth was asked for details to access his phone and his XBox account which he provided.

DC Saunders: “Have those black bin bags been there all the time?”

Youth: “Yeah.”

DC Saunders: “Was there any particular reason it was that night you took the rubbish out?”

Youth: “No we took some on Monday as well, it wasn’t just that night.”

DC Saunders: “What time was that?”

Youth: “Do you expect me to have a watch on and check all the time…. You have CCTV there you can look.”

DC Saunders: “Why didn’t you take the other bags.”

Youth: “Because if you take too many at a time one’s going to get caught and will have your sweat and fingerprints on them and they can trace you. Using your head you don’t do all your bags at once.”

DC Saunders: “Are they full bags?”

Youth: They’re never full, they’ve got a bit of air to them…. They weren’t too heavy.”

DC Saunders: “Describe to me how (Cole) carried them.”

Youth: “He had two over his shoulder and one there (gestures to his side).”

DC Saunders: “Was he struggling with the weight?”

Youth: (Shakes his head to indicate ‘No’)

 

[Bluedaisy100]

One of the early problems with the manufactured story is that in the darkness 2 bags over a shoulder don't look like a small dead child over a shoulder. Didn't realize how good the definition is in low light conditions.

 

[nothinonyou]

i'm confused, they didn't take any black bins bags out right?

 

[ChloLo]

In early reporting there was mention of dumping bin bags. So I’m confused as well. But this is probably just a cover story and there were probably no bags.

 

[Jay_Tec]

In early reporting there was mention of dumping bin bags. So I’m confused as well. But this is probably just a cover story and there were probably no bags.

There was mention that the family habitually use that part of the river for fly tipping rubbish.

However, to my best knowledge there has been no suggestion that JC and Youth were captured on camera moving bin bags.

IIRC, it was stated that JC was seen carrying something about his shoulders that appeared to be Logan's body, arms hanging over his back. That the youth was walking beside or slightly behind him. I don't recall any mention of either of them carrying any bags or tipping any bags. They also went on a second missing whereby Logan's torn clothing was scattered about.

Also, JC has stated he carried Logan and laid him at the river, not realising the Youth was following behind.

So, the doorbell camera footage and JC's own statement directly conflict with this testimony.

Could it be the Youth will now argue he was forced to do as he was told?

For me the horror of this narrative is that overtly, poor tiny dead Logan is being directly affiliated with litter that is too bothersome and expensive to dispose of correctly.
JC clearly concocted this plan and it is very revealing of his psyche and feelings towards Logan - furtively tip this unwanted item in the river like a black bin bag. Is there a racist tone to that? Logan has no worth, no value, should be denied a proper burial service, no one will notice or care. I think they imagined no ones even bothered to establish what had happened to Logan - like yeah we used to have a kid but one night he disappeared and maybe some woman took him but we don't know. OK, so that's that. Did they not imagine anyone would mount a search? That life would just go on but without Logan? Cos that's how it's coming off to me.

 

[Jay_Tec]

15:37PHILIP DEWEY
'Logan wouldn't eat his food' - youth tells police
The youth is asked about Logan’s dinner.

He said: “(Logan) didn’t want any dinner, he was just refusing. He sat there with his mouth closed and started shaking his head. We knew something was up because it was pizza and chips and it was his favourite. No one turns down pizza and chips so I don’t know.

“He was being a d*** about it and kept messing around, saying ‘I don’t want it, you eat it’.”

DC Saunders: “Was he complaining about anything?”

Youth: “He said his stomach hurt at the time and he didn’t want to eat…. He said he had an ouchy in his stomach. That’s what he was saying and I don’t know what to do, I didn’t think anything of it. (Cole and Williamson) checked it out and 9.30pm they put him to bed.”

15:34PHILIP DEWEY
Second police interview
The second police interview of the youth took place on August 3, after John Cole had been interviewed by police and disclosure to the youth and his solicitor had taken place.

The defendant was again asked about Friday, July 30.

Youth: “What do you mean?.....I remember Logan was getting a bit too bouncy and (Cole and Williamson) told him to calm down. He was getting too excited and he needed to calm down.

“They put him in the, well it’s not a naughty corner, but put him in a corner to calm down, had lunch and put him back in his room and he started messing around.

“(Williamson) went in there and told him to stop messing around. Had dinner and he went back to watching the rest (of Pokemon) and put him to bed.”

DC Saunders: “Too bouncy? Explain what you mean?”

Youth: “Too excited. In the past he got too boisterous…. (Williamson) gave him a tap on his hand as if to say ‘Calm down, behave’. Not hard at all and he calmed down.”

The defendant said Logan didn’t eat his food.

Youth: “(Logan) was a bit grumpy and angry….Just the look when he gets a little annoyed he gives a death stare.

When asked how Logan reacted to being put in his room, the youth said: “I don’t think anyone is happy unless they want to go in their room. He was glum and (pulled a face).

“He started playing with his toys a bit too rough I think, I am not sure. We heard a bang and (Cole and Williamson) went in to check on Logan. Logan had jumped off something or falling off something.”

When asked how Cole and Williamson reacted, he said: “They went into his room, checked he was ok, noral parental stuff, looking after him.

“(Logan) was getting moody because they put ice on it because they had some there. I heard the ice draw…. I saw (Williamson) carrying ice to Logan’s bedroom.”

DC Saunders: “Did Logan cry?”

Youth: “Yeah, I don’t know sorry.”

When asked if Cole and Williamson shouted at Logan, he said: “(Williamson) shouted at Logan yes and (Cole) shouted at Logan a little bit…

“(Williamson) picked him up and shouted at him something like ‘Tell the truth’ something along those lines…. She picked him up in the hallway and asked him a question, I can’t remember what question but I saw him being picked up and shook him and said ‘Tell the truth’. She kind of shouted in his face.

“She just picked him up by his T-shirt or his arms and shook him and shouted ‘Tell the truth’ in his face…. I saw Logan on his knees, I think he slipped out of her hands or she dropped hin…. It was just quick.

“(Logan) just looked at her…. It made him cry a little. (Williamson) picked him up, stood him up and asked if he was ok and put him back in the corner to calm down.”

DC Saunders: “Why did he need to calm down?”

Youth: “Because he weren’t telling the truth…. She weren’t shouting, she just told him to tell the truth, I don’t know what about. I kind of just left them to it.”

DC Saunders: “Tell me about the corner.”

Youth: “(Williamson) just puts him there for five minutes to calm down or (Cole) does.”

DC Saunders: “What was he doing that needed calming down?”

Youth: “They were asking something to do with his room and he wasn’t telling the truth. I think it was because he just ran around. I’m not sure. I’m sorry I don’t know really.”

DC Saunders: “How did (Logan) react?”

Youth: “He just pinches himself normally…. When he does it he has his arms up high and does that. I don’t know how to explain…. It marks him and bruises him, he doesn’t like being put in the corner.”

DC Saunders: “How often is he put in the corner?”

Youth: “Only if he’s naughty, if he needs to calm down or does something really naughty….”

DC Saunders: “How long was he kept in the corner?”

Youth: “Only five minutes…(they) would put him back in his room and (Cole) gave him some toys and because he was in a mood he was playing with his toys roughly.

“I don’t want to say he was being an arse because he’s not here, I don’t know how to put it without offending him or disrespecting him. He was being a bit difficult and he threw a toy and it broke….

“It was a dinosaur toy. (Cole and Willimason) weren’t happy because they bought it with their own money…. (Cole) shouted ‘Why did you do that’.”

 

[Jay_Tec]

15:37PHILIP DEWEY
'Logan wouldn't eat his food' - youth tells police
The youth is asked about Logan’s dinner.

He said: “(Logan) didn’t want any dinner, he was just refusing. He sat there with his mouth closed and started shaking his head. We knew something was up because it was pizza and chips and it was his favourite. No one turns down pizza and chips so I don’t know.

“He was being a d*** about it and kept messing around, saying ‘I don’t want it, you eat it’.”

DC Saunders: “Was he complaining about anything?”

Youth: “He said his stomach hurt at the time and he didn’t want to eat…. He said he had an ouchy in his stomach. That’s what he was saying and I don’t know what to do, I didn’t think anything of it. (Cole and Williamson) checked it out and 9.30pm they put him to bed.”

 

[nothinonyou]

There was mention that the family habitually use that part of the river for fly tipping rubbish.

However, to my best knowledge there has been no suggestion that JC and Youth were captured on camera moving bin bags.

IIRC, it was stated that JC was seen carrying something about his shoulders that appeared to be Logan's body, arms hanging over his back. That the youth was walking beside or slightly behind him. I don't recall any mention of either of them carrying any bags or tipping any bags. They also went on a second missing whereby Logan's torn clothing was scattered about.

Also, JC has stated he carried Logan and laid him at the river, not realising the Youth was following behind.

So, the doorbell camera footage and JC's own statement directly conflict with this testimony.

Could it be the Youth will now argue he was forced to do as he was told?

For me the horror of this narrative is that overtly, poor tiny dead Logan is being directly affiliated with litter that is too bothersome and expensive to dispose of correctly.
JC clearly concocted this plan and it is very revealing of his psyche and feelings towards Logan - furtively tip this unwanted item in the river like a black bin bag. Is there a racist tone to that? Logan has no worth, no value, should be denied a proper burial service, no one will notice or care. I think they imagined no ones even bothered to establish what had happened to Logan - like yeah we used to have a kid but one night he disappeared and maybe some woman took him but we don't know. OK, so that's that. Did they not imagine anyone would mount a search? That life would just go on but without Logan? Cos that's how it's coming off to me.

yeah that's what I thought, that they were never seen on CCTV with black bins bags.

and i also get the same impression re: their opinion of Logan, I think he meant nothing to JC and the youth and their value of him was so little that they assumed others would think so little of him too and find his body and think "oh well, he's dead" and nothing more would happen?

 

[SausageDog]

Long time lurker on this thread and literally just made an account so I could post…

with regard to the youths testimony about dinner - didn’t AW say she tried to serve him chicken in a bun that evening? Not pizza and chips? I know it’s a tiny detail but shows this story is likely concocted

 

[SausageDog]

In her police interview on August 3 Angharad Williamson said she gave Logan food, including a brown bun with chicken and lettuce, on the evening of July 30 but he wouldn’t eat it. As a result he was sent to bed without any food.

Williamson said: “I’ve done it once before. I had it done to me and it wasn’t the end of the world to miss one meal… [Logan] was being a bit of a brat at the time.

Logan) didn’t want any dinner, he was just refusing. He sat there with his mouth closed and started shaking his head. We knew something was up because it was pizza and chips and it was his favourite. No one turns down pizza and chips so I don’t know.

I know it is such a minor detail (also sorry if I’m not posting correctly) but just shows that they’re all lying and have clearly spent time beforehand trying to concoct this story together

 

[Jay_Tec]

These food descriptions are so vivid. They weren't real and they weren't true. So, what were they?

Is it possible that JC has knowingly coached AW and the Youth separately with two conflicting stories?

I don't know how conniving, thoughtful, and intelligent JC is but we know AW is not a genius and that the Youth has some sort of learning or intellectual disabilities / set backs. Seems to me JC has ran them through the events of the night. This is what we did, this is what we ate, etc. We know now that they are all three lying. So, they didn't sit down and eat any dinner together. They were panicking about what to do with a near dead child I imagine.

 

[nothinonyou]

These food descriptions are so vivid. They weren't real and they weren't true. So, what were they?

Is it possible that JC has knowingly coached AW and the Youth separately with two conflicting stories?

I don't know how conniving, thoughtful, and intelligent JC is but we know AW is not a genius and that the Youth has some sort of learning or intellectual disabilities / set backs. Seems to me JC has ran them through the events of the night. This is what we did, this is what we ate, etc. We know now that they are all three lying. So, they didn't sit down and eat any dinner together. They were panicking about what to do with a near dead child I imagine.

it's very easy to get tripped up when lying in a police interview because they will ask the same question 100 times , worderd differently over 24 hours or more. So it's likely that both AW and the youth had said "we gave Logan dinner and put him in bed" because that's the concocted story, however I imagine they never determined what Logan supposodly was served for dinner (they had a tight time frame to concoct the worst lie in history), so when asked the same question over and over the human brain needs to say something different eventually so that's when they both came up with pizza and chips and a burger. Boom, there is the lie

 

[Jay_Tec]

JC maybe pretended to smooth it all out with them to make it look as if he only will get imprisoned. Whilst knowing he's created a scenario where they'll be found to be liars?

Maybe he didn't care any more? Maybe he'd had enough. Enough of minding a challenging youth, enough of dealing with AW's drama and illness and listening to a crying baby and putting up with a challenging Logan (as he would frame it). Maybe he was quite happy to go back to prison for the rest of his life? Maybe he was up to other stuff too we don't know about? Some people are institutionalised. Some thugs enjoy the regime of prison. Frankly even I would rather be in prison than living like that. Some people don't figure out solutions very adeptly.

 

[Skigh]

I think if they had rehearsed the story they would both have mentioned the same food. Maybe AW thought she sounded like a caring parent offering something which she thought sounded healthy. There was no way LM was able to eat anything that day.

 

[Jay_Tec]

it's very easy to get tripped up when lying in a police interview because they will ask the same question 100 times , worderd differently over 24 hours or more. So it's likely that both AW and the youth had said "we gave Logan dinner and put him in bed" because that's the concocted story, however I imagine they never determined what Logan supposodly was served for dinner (they had a tight time frame to concoct the worst lie in history), so when asked the same question over and over the human brain needs to say something different eventually so that's when they both came up with pizza and chips and a burger. Boom, there is the lie

I dunno because JC would know this and also they are very clear on the circumstances of how Logan wouldn't eat / refused food. They knew he would be found with an empty stomach. Sounds like Logan would not have been eating - semi conscious and in chronic pain by the time this alleged meal is described. So it didn't happen whatsoever. You'd think JC would have coached them to recall the food. The Youth is very adept at dodging questions so if he knew he can't answer he'd say dunno, can't remember, no idea, how would I know type stuff.

 

[Jay_Tec]

I think if they had rehearsed the story they would both have mentioned the same food. Maybe AW thought she sounded like a caring parent offering something which she thought sounded healthy. There was no way LM was able to eat anything that day.

Oh yup good point - the fantasy kicks in - brown roll and chicken, very healthy meal in her delusion. She's too worried about how pizza and chips comes off than her son's entire life and death story.

 

[Jay_Tec]

15:57PHILIP DEWEY
Third interview

The third interview took place on August 3.

The youth was asked again about Williamson shaking Logan.

He said: “It wasn’t hard, with a tap you can hear if it’s a tapping noise or smacking. With picking up you can’t describe how hard it was. I don’t think it was hard, no.”

DC Saunders asked what the youth meant when he said Logan was punished for stealing things. He said he was referring to bags of crisps.

DC Saunders: “Did (Logan) hurt (Cole or Williamson).”

Youth: “He stood on my things and hurt (Williamson) in the past, I’m not sure about (Cole). He’s tried to pinch (Cole) sometimes or tried to grab his legs.”

The youth was asked about Logan’s extensive injuries.

He said: “None that I’m aware of.”

DC Saunders: “Did (Williamson or Cole) tell you about any injuries.”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “When we have spoken (about) ice you put it on your face.”

Youth: “I’m just showing you where we get ice.”

The youth denied seeing any injuries or bruises on Logan when he went to bed.

DC Saunders: “Did you shout at him?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “Did you hurt or injure Logan?”

Youth: “No, I did not hurt or injure Logan Williamson.”

DC Saunders: “Can you explain why what (Cole) is saying something different?”

Youth: “To be honest, because we (fly tipped) on the Monday and threw rubbish. I don’t know whether I’m crossing it and getting by nights and days mixed. All I remember is is (Cole) coming in for a second and and I think he was talking. We didn’t say anything and he said that on his.

“I didn’t know he was carrying Logan or anything I just thought he was carrying bin bags.”