UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #3

[Jay_Tec]

16:12PHILIP DEWEY

'I had just woken up'
The youth was asked if he had any further thoughts on the morning of July 31 after Cole’s confession he had carried Logan’s body to the river.

Youth: “(Cole) came in and said something I didn’t hear him properly and he grabbed what looked like bin bags. I followed him but I thought he was carrying bin bags, I wanted to watch and make sure he didn’t get approached. I wanted to make sure he was ok.
“I didn’t know what he was carrying, it looked like bags and later we went to the bridge and he went to the woods somewhere and he told me to wait….

“It looked like bin bags but I’m not sure. I saw him put something over his shoulder and I thought they were bin bags…. I had just woken up and my eyes are blurry as hell.

The police asked the youth if he could see what Cole had over his shoulder.

Youth: “No it was even darker outside.”

He was asked if he maintained he did not follow Cole to the riverbank.

Youth: “Yes… He didn’t say or do anything, he just walked on back.”

DC Saunders: “Did you see (Cole) carrying Logan.”

Youth: “No, don’t you think I would have phoned the police?”

 

[Jay_Tec]

16:18PHILIP DEWEY

'Williamson was hysterical' - youth tells police

When the youth got back to the house, he could hear Cole and Williamson talking in their bedroom.

DC Saunders: “Was (Williamson) screaming?

Youth: “(Williamson) was kind of hysterical and panicky. I don’t know why, I didn’t want to invade, I didn’t know if it was personal so I just left it.”

“(Cole) calmed her down and went to the morning when me and (Cole) went looking for Logan….

“I could hear (Williamson) crying and breathing like she does when she’s upset. It’s kind of like, I don’t know how to (makes a noise). It weren’t too loud but quite loud.

“(It went on) for a couple of minutes. I didn’t know what was going on, I was confused. I didn’t want to ask, it could have been something about her family so I didn’t want to ask or intervene…. (Cole) was able to calm her down.”

DC Saunders: “Did you see (Williamson)?”

Youth: “I saw her go to the toilet and back in her room. (Cole) goes out and I follow him behind.”

DC Saunders: “Were the lights on in the house?”

Youth: “No.”

The youth was asked for the reason why he and Cole went back out of the house.

He said: “To check the rubbish had gone down but I didn’t know it was Logan. (Cole) told me to wait at the rickety rackety bridge and (Cole) went into the wood….. Not long, literally 10 seconds.”

 

[Dotta]

it's very easy to get tripped up when lying in a police interview because they will ask the same question 100 times , worderd differently over 24 hours or more. So it's likely that both AW and the youth had said "we gave Logan dinner and put him in bed" because that's the concocted story, however I imagine they never determined what Logan supposodly was served for dinner (they had a tight time frame to concoct the worst lie in history), so when asked the same question over and over the human brain needs to say something different eventually so that's when they both came up with pizza and chips and a burger. Boom, there is the lie

Didnt she have this special notice board with all meals neatly written down for the whole month?

 

[Jay_Tec]

16:32

KEY EVENT

CPR

The fourth interview with the youth took place on August 4. DC Saunders begins by going through the evidence of John Cole.

It was put to the youth in Cole’s account Logan was “kicking off” and Williamson went to his room to calm him down and she later shouted out “He’s dead, Logan’s dead”.

When asked if he heard that, the youth said: “No.”

It was put to him that Cole had performed CPR on Logan for 15 minutes during which time Williamson was “frantic and hyperventilating”.

The youth claimed he didn’t hear this.

He was also asked if he heard Cole and Williamson talking about what they were going to do with Logan’s body and she was shouting ‘What do we do, what do we do’.

The youth claimed he didn’t hear this.

It was also put to him that Cole had claimed the youth responded to the noise and was trying to get into their room.

Youth: “What do you mean?... I don’t know.”

DC Saunders: “Did you try to get into the bedroom?”

Youth: “I don’t know, I’m not sure.”

DC Saunders: “Were you worried about Logan.”

At this point, the youth’s solicitor asked if he wanted a break and the interview was paused.

 

[ChloLo]

15:37PHILIP DEWEY
'Logan wouldn't eat his food' - youth tells police

snipped by me

“It was a dinosaur toy. (Cole and Willimason) weren’t happy because they bought it with their own money…. (Cole) shouted ‘Why did you do that’.”

I find this seemingly unimportant piece of information interesting. Why was this stated? Isn’t this what parents do, spend money on their children?

 

[Jay_Tec]

The Youth would feel very betrayed by JC if he has been assured by JC, whom he looks up to as his 'superior' and possible rescuer, that if he sticks to the story all will be well.

I'm wondering what the outcome of this betrayal will be when the youth has JC's statements formally presented to him.

 

[nothinonyou]

Didnt she have this special notice board with all meals neatly written down for the whole month?

apparently, but food parcels also had to be delievered the next day

 

[Jay_Tec]

I find this seemingly unimportant piece of information interesting. Why was this stated? Isn’t this what parents do, spend money on their children?

Yep, I noticed that too. Clearly the children's toys in that house are not usually purchased by any adult. Wonder what that implies? Provided by charities ? Gifted by friends or relatives ? Stolen ?

I'm kind of confused as to why this broken dinosaur is such a focal point - could it be that when discovered broken or when Logan deliberately broke it, that is the incident that incurred the vicious and deadly final beating from JC ? On the grounds that 'we paid for this' and it was 'disrespectful' of Logan.

In something I once read about violent offenders, being 'disrespected' was the main reason they gave for perpetrating extreme violence.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

One of the first things the prosecution did in the trial was to take the jury to Bridgend to see the house for themselves. Is Bridgend close to Cardiff where the trial is? I look on google maps after this. But I wondered how necessary that was. Now I'm seeing how with all of them with different versions. How the youth never heard this or AW didn't know what JC was doing to Logan. How all them had to have known most if not all of what happened. This wasn't a silent drowning incident. As the neighbors reported they carried on loudly. So the jury would find it hard to believe that in that small of a one story house that none of these stories are possible.

 

[mrazda71]

Something I'm keeping in mind whilst reading about things said whilst in custody and during interviews ... only one of these 3 defendants is experienced at being arrested and questioned by police.

 

[mrazda71]

apparently, but food parcels also had to be delievered the next day

That was to John Coles house that had been sat empty for weeks.

 

[Jay_Tec]

One of the first things the prosecution did in the trial was to take the jury to Bridgend to see the house for themselves. Is Bridgend close to Cardiff where the trial is? I look on google maps after this. But I wondered how necessary that was. Now I'm seeing how with all of them with different versions. How the youth never heard this or AW didn't know what JC was doing to Logan. How all them had to have known most if not all of what happened. This wasn't a silent drowning incident. As the neighbors reported they carried on loudly. So the jury would find it hard to believe that in that small of a one story house that none of these stories are possible.

I have lived in tiny close quarter social housing many many times and trust me, one can hear absolutely everything from one's neighbours and one has no privacy inside the flat itself.
That house must have been chaotic and horribly noisy to live near, their raised voices would be clearly audible.

 

[Jay_Tec]

That was to John Coles house that had been sat empty for weeks.

So they were intending to return back to JC's house the next day? Without Logan...

I'm surprised that they bothered to concoct the AW raising the 'my child is missing' alarm story. It could have been quite some time before anyone could prove Logan was missing and his body may not have been discovered for weeks, if ever.

All they had to do was decamp back to JC's, confabulate some story that Logan is poorly with covid and they would have bought considerable time.

 

[mrazda71]

I have lived in tiny close quarter social housing many many times and trust me, one can hear absolutely everything from one's neighbours and one has no privacy inside the flat itself.
That house must have been chaotic and horribly noisy to live near, their raised voices would be clearly audible.

I agree with this but also wanted to add that it wasn't one rowdy flat alone in the midst of a retirement village ... so, it being noisy might not necessarily stick out as much as some who've not experienced that kind of area might think.

 

[mrazda71]

So they were intending to return back to JC's house the next day? Without Logan...

I'm surprised that they bothered to concoct the AW raising the 'my child is missing' alarm story. It could have been quite some time before anyone could prove Logan was missing and his body may not have been discovered for weeks, if ever.

All they had to do was decamp back to JC's, confabulate some story that Logan is poorly with covid and they would have bought considerable time.

The police told them to go to Johns House? as the flat was a potential crime scene?

 

[Skigh]

Something I'm keeping in mind whilst reading about things said whilst in custody and during interviews ... only one of these 3 defendants is experienced at being arrested and questioned by police.

I agree, but do wonder if the youth had been arrested at some time in his life even if it did not lead to charges.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

Does anyone have an opinion on whether this had some semblance of planning or spontaneous or a mix? It occurs to me that the smaller house had the advantage of being very close to river for dumping a body.

 

[Seattle1]

Logan Mwangi murder trial hears what teenage defendant told police in interview - live updates

Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates

28 March 2022 --

16:46PHILIP DEWEY
Youth thought shouting in the house 'was a dream'

When the interview continued, the youth was again asked if he tried to get into the bedroom.

He said: “Yes, the reason I said no was because I thought it was a dream. When you said it, it must have happened because the same thing happened in my dream so it must not have been a dream.”

DC Saunders: “Tell me what happened.”

Youth: “I tried to get in to see what was going on and they wouldn’t let me…… (Cole) left the house and I followed behind him.

“I was just trying to get in…. I was trying to see because I heard (Williamson) say ‘He’s dead’ and I wanted to see if he was ok and he weren’t.”

He claimed he had bad ears so was unable to hear anything other than Williamson shouting ‘He’s dead’.

Youth: I asked if I could see (Logan) but (Cole) said no…”

DC Saunders: “Was the light on?”

Youth: Yes, (Logan’s). (Williamson) was in there and she was crying…

“I put in my headphones in. Because of the shouting I was trying to respect them…. I put my headphones in and started singing to myself….

“I was scared, worried, I don’t know how to explain it. I was scared, I didn’t know what was happening and I thought it was a dream.”

DC Saunders: “(Cole) has got Logan hasn’t he?”

Youth: “Not that I know, it looked like black bags.”

DC Saunders: “Was Logan in a black bin bag?”

Youth: “No, don’t you think I would have grassed him up.”

He still claimed he thought Cole was fly tipping rubbish and didn’t know it was Logan’s body, and that’s why he didn’t ring the police.

DC Saunders: “(Cole) got a ripped top from Logan.”

Youth: “That’s when Williamson picked him up by his collar and it ripped. When she went like that and shook him.”

DC Saunders: “Were you aware (Cole) was taking a T-shirt to get rid of it?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “How was (Cole) behaving? Was he happy, sad, worried, crying?”

Youth: “He looked a bit sad and worried.,,,,, It was the way his face looked.”

16:32KEY EVENT

CPR
The fourth interview with the youth took place on August 4. DC Saunders begins by going through the evidence of John Cole.

It was put to the youth in Cole’s account Logan was “kicking off” and Williamson went to his room to calm him down and she later shouted out “He’s dead, Logan’s dead”.

When asked if he heard that, the youth said: “No.”

It was put to him that Cole had performed CPR on Logan for 15 minutes during which time Williamson was “frantic and hyperventilating”.

The youth claimed he didn’t hear this.

He was also asked if he heard Cole and Williamson talking about what they were going to do with Logan’s body and she was shouting ‘What do we do, what do we do’.

The youth claimed he didn’t hear this.

It was also put to him that Cole had claimed the youth responded to the noise and was trying to get into their room.

Youth: “What do you mean?... I don’t know.”

DC Saunders: “Did you try to get into the bedroom?”

Youth: “I don’t know, I’m not sure.”

DC Saunders: “Were you worried about Logan.”

At this point, the youth’s solicitor asked if he wanted a break and the interview was paused.

16:18PHILIP DEWEY

'Williamson was hysterical' - youth tells police
When the youth got back to the house, he could hear Cole and Williamson talking in their bedroom.

DC Saunders: “Was (Williamson) screaming?

Youth: “(Williamson) was kind of hysterical and panicky. I don’t know why, I didn’t want to invade, I didn’t know if it was personal so I just left it.”

“(Cole) calmed her down and went to the morning when me and (Cole) went looking for Logan….

“I could hear (Williamson) crying and breathing like she does when she’s upset. It’s kind of like, I don’t know how to (makes a noise). It weren’t too loud but quite loud.

“(It went on) for a couple of minutes. I didn’t know what was going on, I was confused. I didn’t want to ask, it could have been something about her family so I didn’t want to ask or intervene…. (Cole) was able to calm her down.”

DC Saunders: “Did you see (Williamson)?”

Youth: “I saw her go to the toilet and back in her room. (Cole) goes out and I follow him behind.”

DC Saunders: “Were the lights on in the house?”

Youth: “No.”

The youth was asked for the reason why he and Cole went back out of the house.

He said: “To check the rubbish had gone down but I didn’t know it was Logan. (Cole) told me to wait at the rickety rackety bridge and (Cole) went into the wood….. Not long, literally 10 seconds.”

16:12PHILIP DEWEY

'I had just woken up'
The youth was asked if he had any further thoughts on the morning of July 31 after Cole’s confession he had carried Logan’s body to the river.

Youth: “(Cole) came in and said something I didn’t hear him properly and he grabbed what looked like bin bags. I followed him but I thought he was carrying bin bags, I wanted to watch and make sure he didn’t get approached. I wanted to make sure he was ok.
“I didn’t know what he was carrying, it looked like bags and later we went to the bridge and he went to the woods somewhere and he told me to wait….

“It looked like bin bags but I’m not sure. I saw him put something over his shoulder and I thought they were bin bags…. I had just woken up and my eyes are blurry as hell.

The police asked the youth if he could see what Cole had over his shoulder.

Youth: “No it was even darker outside.”

He was asked if he maintained he did not follow Cole to the riverbank.

Youth: “Yes… He didn’t say or do anything, he just walked on back.”

DC Saunders: “Did you see (Cole) carrying Logan.”

Youth: “No, don’t you think I would have phoned the police?”

15:57PHILIP DEWEY

Third interview
The third interview took place on August 3.

The youth was asked again about Williamson shaking Logan.

He said: “It wasn’t hard, with a tap you can hear if it’s a tapping noise or smacking. With picking up you can’t describe how hard it was. I don’t think it was hard, no.”

DC Saunders asked what the youth meant when he said Logan was punished for stealing things. He said he was referring to bags of crisps.

DC Saunders: “Did (Logan) hurt (Cole or Williamson).”

Youth: “He stood on my things and hurt (Williamson) in the past, I’m not sure about (Cole). He’s tried to pinch (Cole) sometimes or tried to grab his legs.”

The youth was asked about Logan’s extensive injuries.

He said: “None that I’m aware of.”

DC Saunders: “Did (Williamson or Cole) tell you about any injuries.”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “When we have spoken (about) ice you put it on your face.”

Youth: “I’m just showing you where we get ice.”

The youth denied seeing any injuries or bruises on Logan when he went to bed.

DC Saunders: “Did you shout at him?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “Did you hurt or injure Logan?”

Youth: “No, I did not hurt or injure Logan Williamson.”

DC Saunders: “Can you explain why what (Cole) is saying something different?”

Youth: “To be honest, because we (fly tipped) on the Monday and threw rubbish. I don’t know whether I’m crossing it and getting by nights and days mixed. All I remember is is (Cole) coming in for a second and and I think he was talking. We didn’t say anything and he said that on his.

“I didn’t know he was carrying Logan or anything I just thought he was carrying bin bags.”

15:37PHILIP DEWEY

'Logan wouldn't eat his food' - youth tells police
The youth is asked about Logan’s dinner.

He said: “(Logan) didn’t want any dinner, he was just refusing. He sat there with his mouth closed and started shaking his head. We knew something was up because it was pizza and chips and it was his favourite. No one turns down pizza and chips so I don’t know.

“He was being a d*** about it and kept messing around, saying ‘I don’t want it, you eat it’.”

DC Saunders: “Was he complaining about anything?”

Youth: “He said his stomach hurt at the time and he didn’t want to eat…. He said he had an ouchy in his stomach. That’s what he was saying and I don’t know what to do, I didn’t think anything of it. (Cole and Williamson) checked it out and 9.30pm they put him to bed.”

15:34PHILIP DEWEY

Second police interview
The second police interview of the youth took place on August 3, after John Cole had been interviewed by police and disclosure to the youth and his solicitor had taken place.

The defendant was again asked about Friday, July 30.

Youth: “What do you mean?.....I remember Logan was getting a bit too bouncy and (Cole and Williamson) told him to calm down. He was getting too excited and he needed to calm down.

“They put him in the, well it’s not a naughty corner, but put him in a corner to calm down, had lunch and put him back in his room and he started messing around.

“(Williamson) went in there and told him to stop messing around. Had dinner and he went back to watching the rest (of Pokemon) and put him to bed.”

DC Saunders: “Too bouncy? Explain what you mean?”

Youth: “Too excited. In the past he got too boisterous…. (Williamson) gave him a tap on his hand as if to say ‘Calm down, behave’. Not hard at all and he calmed down.”

The defendant said Logan didn’t eat his food.

Youth: “(Logan) was a bit grumpy and angry….Just the look when he gets a little annoyed he gives a death stare.

When asked how Logan reacted to being put in his room, the youth said: “I don’t think anyone is happy unless they want to go in their room. He was glum and (pulled a face).

“He started playing with his toys a bit too rough I think, I am not sure. We heard a bang and (Cole and Williamson) went in to check on Logan. Logan had jumped off something or falling off something.”

When asked how Cole and Williamson reacted, he said: “They went into his room, checked he was ok, noral parental stuff, looking after him.

“(Logan) was getting moody because they put ice on it because they had some there. I heard the ice draw…. I saw (Williamson) carrying ice to Logan’s bedroom.”

DC Saunders: “Did Logan cry?”

Youth: “Yeah, I don’t know sorry.”

When asked if Cole and Williamson shouted at Logan, he said: “(Williamson) shouted at Logan yes and (Cole) shouted at Logan a little bit…

“(Williamson) picked him up and shouted at him something like ‘Tell the truth’ something along those lines…. She picked him up in the hallway and asked him a question, I can’t remember what question but I saw him being picked up and shook him and said ‘Tell the truth’. She kind of shouted in his face.

“She just picked him up by his T-shirt or his arms and shook him and shouted ‘Tell the truth’ in his face…. I saw Logan on his knees, I think he slipped out of her hands or she dropped hin…. It was just quick.

“(Logan) just looked at her…. It made him cry a little. (Williamson) picked him up, stood him up and asked if he was ok and put him back in the corner to calm down.”

DC Saunders: “Why did he need to calm down?”

Youth: “Because he weren’t telling the truth…. She weren’t shouting, she just told him to tell the truth, I don’t know what about. I kind of just left them to it.”

DC Saunders: “Tell me about the corner.”

Youth: “(Williamson) just puts him there for five minutes to calm down or (Cole) does.”

DC Saunders: “What was he doing that needed calming down?”

Youth: “They were asking something to do with his room and he wasn’t telling the truth. I think it was because he just ran around. I’m not sure. I’m sorry I don’t know really.”

DC Saunders: “How did (Logan) react?”

Youth: “He just pinches himself normally…. When he does it he has his arms up high and does that. I don’t know how to explain…. It marks him and bruises him, he doesn’t like being put in the corner.”

DC Saunders: “How often is he put in the corner?”

Youth: “Only if he’s naughty, if he needs to calm down or does something really naughty….”

DC Saunders: “How long was he kept in the corner?”

Youth: “Only five minutes…(they) would put him back in his room and (Cole) gave him some toys and because he was in a mood he was playing with his toys roughly.

“I don’t want to say he was being an arse because he’s not here, I don’t know how to put it without offending him or disrespecting him. He was being a bit difficult and he threw a toy and it broke….

“It was a dinosaur toy. (Cole and Willimason) weren’t happy because they bought it with their own money…. (Cole) shouted ‘Why did you do that’.”

14:02PHILIP DEWEY

Trial resumes
The youth was asked for details to access his phone and his XBox account which he provided.

DC Saunders: “Have those black bin bags been there all the time?”

Youth: “Yeah.”

DC Saunders: “Was there any particular reason it was that night you took the rubbish out?”

Youth: “No we took some on Monday as well, it wasn’t just that night.”

DC Saunders: “What time was that?”

Youth: “Do you expect me to have a watch on and check all the time…. You have CCTV there you can look.”

DC Saunders: “Why didn’t you take the other bags.”

Youth: “Because if you take too many at a time one’s going to get caught and will have your sweat and fingerprints on them and they can trace you. Using your head you don’t do all your bags at once.”

DC Saunders: “Are they full bags?”

Youth: They’re never full, they’ve got a bit of air to them…. They weren’t too heavy.”

DC Saunders: “Describe to me how (Cole) carried them.”

Youth: “He had two over his shoulder and one there (gestures to his side).”

DC Saunders: “Was he struggling with the weight?”

Youth: (Shakes his head to indicate ‘No’)

13:04PHILIP DEWEY

Youth told police he couldn't see what was in the black bags that were thrown into the river
The youth said he and Cole crossed a field by 5 Lower Llansantffraid, walked across a bridge, turned left and dumped the rubbish in the river. He said they later returned and stood on the bridge to see if the rubbish had gone.

DC Saunders: “Where did you decide to get rid of the bags?”

Youth: “Right at the bottom by the fence we threw it in the river…. I waited up there and he came back up.”

DC Saunders: “Was that lower down where you were standing?”

Youth: “Yes

DC Saunders: “Did you go down there?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “How long did (Cole) down there for?”

Youth: “10 seconds, not even that. He threw the bags and came up.”

DC Saunders: “What did (Cole) say when he did that?”

Youth: “He didn’t say anything…. We threw them down the river and they have gone down the river or somewhere.”

DC Saunders: “When you say it was ‘we’ who threw the bags?”

Youth: “He (Cole), I sometimes struggle with my words.”

DC Saunders: “What were you doing while you were waiting to go back down?”

Youth: “We sat in the living room.”

DC Saunders: “Were any lights on in the house?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “Why did you feel the need to check?”

Youth: “So we don’t get a thousand pound fine…. Because it’s fly tipping.”

DC Saunders: “Did Angharad wake at any time?”

Youth: “No she was asleep.”

DC Saunders: “Did you see or speak to Logan at this time?”

Youth: “No, we didn’t look in the rooms, we just left.”

The youth was asked if he could see the spot from the bridge where the rubbish had been dumped.

Youth: No…. We could already see the bag going. If they were going to be anywhere, they would be where we looked and they weren’t there.”

DC Saunders: “What was the lighting like?”

Youth: It was pitch black

DC Saunders: “Would you have been able to see the bag?”

Youth: “Not really no.”

12:32BENJAMIN WRIGHT

Five bin bags
When asked about the trip to dump rubbish in the river, the youth said he and Cole began speaking about the rubbish but he couldn’t remember what time it was.

Youth: “We said who’s going to carry what bag and we went out, took the bags, took them and threw them in the river…..”

DC Saunders: “Did he turn the lights on?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “Did you turn any lights on?”

Youth: “No, there was no lights in the living room.”

He added: “We were on about how many bags and what bags were there, where the bags were and what bags needed to be taken out. They’re just black bags, I don’t know what was in them, just polystyrene and broken toys. It was all the stuff in the back garden and we all bagged it up.”

DC Saunders: “Were you involved in bagging it up?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “Did you see what was inside the bags?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “How many bags?”

Youth: “Three, there were five left I think.”

DC Saunders: “But you took three?”

Youth: “Yes.”

DC Saunders: “What did (Cole) say about the rubbish?”

Youth: “He was just saying we need to get rid of some. It was going to cost hundreds, someone phoned up and asked how much it was going to take them and he said quite a few tonne.”

DC Saunders: “What did (Cole) say about getting rid of those bags?”

Youth: “He didn’t say anything… We just picked up the three bags, went through, went to the river chucked them out.”

The youth said he didn’t carry any of the bags to the river and Cole carried them.

He said five bags were left by the wooden fence in the back garden.

Youth: “I picked up two, (Cole) picked up one and I helped him get through (the front door). I passed them back to him… The back gate is loud and we didn’t want to wake anybody up.”

12:16PHILIP DEWEY

Youth told police he could remember what Logan was wearing, but couldn't recall what clothes he had on
DC Saunders asked the youth about his account.

He repeated that Cole took Logan into his bedroom, tucked him in, kissed him goodnight.

DC Saunders: “Can you tell me about the lights in Logan’s room?”

Youth: “They were off.”

DC Saunders: “Can you describe Logan’s quilt?”

Youth: “Paw Patrol, Olaf pillow, Olaf teddy and normal Paw Patrol pillow.”

The defendant said he watched the film Space Jam that night.

DC Saunders: “Do you remember what Logan was wearing?”

Youth: “He was wearing a Spiderman top and dinosaur pyjama bottoms. I don’t know what Spiderman top.”

DC Saunders: “Are you able to unlock the babygate?”

Youth: “t’s fiddly but I can open it.”

DC Saunders: “Can Logan open it?”

Youth: “Yes.”

When asked what he was wearing that night, the youth said he couldn’t remember.

DC Saunders: “What happened to the lights?”

Youth: “They got turned off.”

DC Saunders: “Who turned them off.”

Youth: “(Cole).”

12:11PHILIP DEWEY

Youth first told police he went to river to throw rubbish in it
The youth is asked to explain the events of the evening of June 30, 2021, the day before Logan’s body is found.

He said: “So at 9pm Logan was put to bed, (they) let Logan watch the rest of Pokemon Journey because he likes it and put him to bed. I said goodnight to him. (They) put him to bed and gave him his Olaf pillow.

“(Cole) tucked him in, said goodnight, closed the babygate….”

The youth said later on in the night he and Cole spoke about rubbish in the back garden.

He said: “We grabbed some of the rubbish, I don’t know what time, and chucked it in the river because it would have cost hundreds of pounds to get rid of it. It was in black bags, I don’t know what was in it, and chucked the bag in the river….

“We went back out 20 minutes later to check if they had gone down…. We didn’t want to wake anybody up.”

The youth said the next morning, he said Cole and Williamson went to check on Logan and saw he was missing.

He said: “(Williamson) looked out the back, and (youth and Cole) went to everywhere it said; the stone where we throw stones, the jungle, (the schools), the park. We came back to check if (Williamson) was ok, she obviously weren’t…

“(Williamson) phoned the police saying he was missing, while on the call to you we went and looked at those locations but he was nowhere to be seen. We came and checked on (Williamson) and went up the park. We checked there and came back down to look after “(Williamson) and after that the police came and they said we needed to stay in the house.

“(Williamson was trying to ask them what was going on, (Cole) asked them and I asked them but they weren’t telling us. Other than that I can’t remember anything else.”



11:36PHILIP DEWEY

'Do you know who was responsible?
DC Saunders: “You have been arrested on suspicion of murdering Logan. Are you responsible?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “Do you know who was responsible?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “Are you responsible for causing an injury to Logan?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “Do you know who’s responsible for causing any injury to Logan?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “Can you tell me what happened to Logan?”

Youth: “No, I don’t know.”

11:32PHILIP DEWEY

First interview
The first interview took place at Bridgend Bridewell police station.

DC Saunders: “Do you know what a court is?”

Youth: “So you can get put to jail”

DC Saunders: “What do you think the court might think? (If he doesn’t tell the officer something he uses in defence)”

Youth: “That I’m not honest.”

The youth was told he was arrested on suspicion of murdering Logan.

It’s put to the youth he said it was quiet on Saturday, July 31, morning and he thought Logan was sleeping.

The youth agreed.

The police went on to say the youth told officers Cole and Williamson went to check on Logan and found him missing. They began calling him before looking for him.

Youth: “I helped them look for him.”

It was put to the youth that he and Cole looked for Logan until they were stopped by a postman.

Youth: “It should be policeman, not a postman.”

Referring to the youth’s account, DC Saunders said he told officer Logan went to bed at 9.30pm, the youth agrees.”

10:54PHILIP DEWEY

Trial resumes DC Carol Saunders to read interviews
The trial resumes.

Junior barrister Claire Pickthall calls the next witness to give evidence who is detective constable Carol Saunders.

She carried out the interviews of the youth defendant, which will be subsequently read out to the court.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I agree, but do wonder if the youth had been arrested at some time in his life even if it did not lead to charges.

I think that too. At the very least he comes across to me as a very experienced interviewee, practised at telling people what they want to hear or something that sounds plausible in the moment, or, if all else fails, just blocking the question: I can't remember, I wasn't wearing a watch, I don't know anything about that, etc.

I can imagine that with a social worker or school counsellor, who won't be in the habit of asking the same questions over and over, testing for consistency and looking for lies, he will have developed a sense of himself as a skilled liar and master manipulator, and probably been proud of it. But it just doesn't hold water with the police, eg:

He said: “Yes, the reason I said no was because I thought it was a dream. When you said it, it must have happened because the same thing happened in my dream so it must not have been a dream.” (from the 16.46 quoted testimony)

I mean, really. He must think they came down with the last shower.

As I said on the last thread, I do have a sense of this child as having not been born bad so much as moulded by inadequate, chaotic and possibly abusive parenting, but in no sense is he coming across as innocent in this testimony, more like absolutely full of BS.

Just my opinion, though.

Logan Mwangi murder trial - live updates

 

[HongKongPhooey]

The “youth” is a lying piece of work IMO.