UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #3

[RusselSprout]

I thought the very vague report of the youth being bullied, I assumed was by the youths lawyer, and assumed it was jc bullying the youth but detail couldn't be reported due to reporting restrictions.
I can't think of any evidence of him being bullied outwith the home, being useful to this case?

 

[Dotta]

<modsnip>

JC was appointed as a carer of the troubled youth who was abused as a child.

And he failed his responsibility.

He involved a 14 year old into this tragedy.

He is a monster bullying and beating to death a 5 year old.

Why somebody even thought that he was worthy to be given this task is beyond me.

 

[katydid23]

It seems to me that there was a fair bit of projection of the adults character flaws being put on Logan. He was a liar, overly dramatic, wild, attention seeking etc. (in their eyes, not mine). Everyone else who knew him just saw him as a lovely wee boy.

It is hard to reconcile the defendants descriptions of him with what his teachers and neighbours said.

If it was true that he was biting himself and pinching himslef until it bled, wouldn't his teachers have noticed marks and scabs?

 

[katydid23]

I'm not sure we can reply on this IPP sentence to be factual - I absolutely don't believe Cole was in the SAS so why should we believe anything else?

I think it more likely that the IPP is another lie that he's used to coerce Angharad - 'if I get nicked (arrested) for XYZ then it won't be a slap on the wrist (negligible sentence/punishment) I'll be inside for life 'cause of me IPP.

weighing things up at this point (this point only) - I think John is responsible for Logan's death.

Angharad is absolutely responsible for neglecting Logan and allowing the death of a child... not convinced on a guilty for murder (yet)

The youth, at this stage (that may change as more evidence is heard of course) - I believe should he found not guilty of Logans murder but he needs some intensive, lengthy rehabilitation if there is any chance for a normal life for him.

I am not sure that I agree that the youth should be found not guilty. I think he dealt Logan a lot of blows that caused some real damage. If he pushed him down the stairs, that is very serious in itself.

 

[Supernovae]

JC and AW were remanded into custody but do we know where the youth is being housed? I recall he was released into the care of the local authority but where is this? A local authority foster parent?

Where would the youth be committed for a sentence?

Sentencing - Mandatory life sentences in Murder cases | The Crown Prosecution Service

Offenders under 18 years old

For an offender who is a youth when they committed the offence the appropriate starting point is 12 years detention at Her Majesty's pleasure.

Given his age it would have to be either a secure children's home or a secure training centre:

Young people in custody

Given the crime took place in Bridgend and the trial is at Cardiff, Hillside in Neath or Vinney Green near Bristol seem like the most likely option (I note AW is being held near Bristol):

Our Homes

The Guardian has a long read from 2015 on a secure children's home:

What should we do with violent children? One secure home may have the answer | Amelia Gentleman

 

[mrazda71]

I am not sure that I agree that the youth should be found not guilty. I think he dealt Logan a lot of blows that caused some real damage. If he pushed him down the stairs, that is very serious in itself.

Hmmmm perhaps ... thought from what we've heard, I think it's likely that it was John who dealt the fatal blows and was responsible for coercing the youth into hurting Logan.

 

[Ellmau]

Hmmmm perhaps ... thought from what we've heard, I think it's likely that it was John who dealt the fatal blows and was responsible for coercing the youth into hurting Logan.

I don't think we can be sure, and TBH I don't think the police/prosecution are either - that's why all three have been accused. I don't envy the jury their job.

 

[tedtink]

Hmmmm perhaps ... thought from what we've heard, I think it's likely that it was John who dealt the fatal blows and was responsible for coercing the youth into hurting Logan.

I'm not hanging my hat on JC having coerced the youth yet as I haven't heard any evidence to suggest he did. If JC had threatened the youth into hurting LM then I'd agree, but at this stage I think JC encouraged the youth to hurt LM. (From the leg sweep evidence) but also think the youth didn't need encouragement.

eta - I think the youth was in awe of JC.

JMO

 

[Skigh]

From what I have heard so far I would say all three are guilty. I think the youth was quite capable of harming LM without any encouragement from JC.

 

[Alyce]

agree with you both @Skigh and @tedtink … From what we know, this youth needed no prompting.

It is never going to be possible to know who dealt the fatal blow, if indeed there was any single blow that caused Logan’s death. It was far more likely the accumulation of abuse that killed him and I hold all three equally guilty. Well, actually as I’ve said before, I hold aw more culpable, being Logan’s biological connection ( using the word mother doesn’t seem appropriate for her ).

all MOO of course

 

[VioletLilac]

Given his age it would have to be either a secure children's home or a secure training centre:

Young people in custody

Given the crime took place in Bridgend and the trial is at Cardiff, Hillside in Neath or Vinney Green near Bristol seem like the most likely option (I note AW is being held near Bristol):

Our Homes

The Guardian has a long read from 2015 on a secure children's home:

What should we do with violent children? One secure home may have the answer | Amelia Gentleman

Interesting. It does make you think about what awful lives these kids have had before they end up in these places. The poor boy whose mum abandoned him. That home has probably been shut by now by the sound of it although they achieved a low reoffending rate. In contrast to cheaper places

 

[Jay_Tec]

I think we've heard enough about the Youth to know that he could have killed Logan himself at any point in time with no help from JC. MOO.

Martial arts kicks to the stomach and groin? Knocking him over using 'sweep' moves? Tripping / throwing him down the stairs?

I think it's quite fair to say that JC could have left the country and Logan's life still would have been at utmost threat. And equally / more so that of the baby as a baby can die instantly from any small incident. Their lives were at immediate risk both from the Youth and from the mother's habit of knock out sleeping. Add JC into the mix and they didn't stand a chance. I would suggest AW's life was also at utmost risk.

Personally, I'm not buying into any narrative that the baby was 'safe' due to being JC's flesh and blood. The baby was not safe from it's own mother by dint of the fact she took knock out medication at nights that she testifies she cannot be roused from. In and of itself, that makes her a clear and present danger to her own baby and own 5 year old. Bear in mind that JC and the Youth did not live full time together with AW, Logan, and the baby - so on nights when she was their sole care taker, she was effectively abandoning them by knocking herself out. Anything could have happened. If she'd left the house and gone out, that would be a crime, but she did the same thing whilst in the house!

Also when they were all together at JC's home they were in a house with stairs and a violent, unmanageable youth. At any time something very serious indeed could have happened. It is being implied the Youth has some kind of cognitive issue, low IQ, or learning disability in addition to being uncontrollably violent. I doubt even an adult was safe from him, hence why JC got awarded him in the first place.

Nobody in that house was safe - in ranking of 'safest' would be JC at the top, the Youth second top, and AW third.

In ranking of most unsafe - a baby is always the highest risk, then Logan, then AW, then JC and the Youth joint bottom and I think either one of them was so deranged they could have killed one another on purpose or misadventure at some point.

We've heard no mention of weapons being used, or makeshift weaponry, or things like fire starting. But all those types of things exist within the remit of disturbed, violent, teens and adults.

AW must be held to account for this as she will be doubtless fighting for her baby back. And UK Social Services being the pathetic thing they are will be fighting for her to.

 

[Jay_Tec]

<modsnip>

JC was appointed as a carer of the troubled youth who was abused as a child.

And he failed his responsibility.

He involved a 14 year old into this tragedy.

He is a monster bullying and beating to death a 5 year old.

Why somebody even thought that he was worthy to be given this task is beyond me.

I suggest they didn't give a damn about the 14 yr old because he was 'too far gone' and a hopeless case in their eyes - nobody gave a damn about him obviously. So when JC stepped up to the mark 'let me knock him into shape, I'm a recovered offender, I have life experience' they were like hmmmm £3,000 a week for a specialist institution - or bin off this hopeless case to his relative...

And who knows what sort of horrific childhood JC himself had... on and on it goes. That is why it's vital that social services start to see things differently - breaking patterns, disrupting the dysfunction, arresting the dis-ease. It's the only way forward. Children MUST be given human rights over and above those of their parents desire to 'have them' as per some form of ownership.

 

[Dotta]

For me 3 children are the victims in this horrible case:

- Logan - murdered
- a baby - practically an orphan now
- a teen - <modsnip: opinion stated as fact>

 

[catgreen]

I think we've heard enough about the Youth to know that he could have killed Logan himself at any point in time with no help from JC. MOO.

Martial arts kicks to the stomach and groin? Knocking him over using 'sweep' moves? Tripping / throwing him down the stairs?

I think it's quite fair to say that JC could have left the country and Logan's life still would have been at utmost threat. And equally / more so that of the baby as a baby can die instantly from any small incident. Their lives were at immediate risk both from the Youth and from the mother's habit of knock out sleeping. Add JC into the mix and they didn't stand a chance. I would suggest AW's life was also at utmost risk.

Personally, I'm not buying into any narrative that the baby was 'safe' due to being JC's flesh and blood. The baby was not safe from it's own mother by dint of the fact she took knock out medication at nights that she testifies she cannot be roused from. In and of itself, that makes her a clear and present danger to her own baby and own 5 year old. Bear in mind that JC and the Youth did not live full time together with AW, Logan, and the baby - so on nights when she was their sole care taker, she was effectively abandoning them by knocking herself out. Anything could have happened. If she'd left the house and gone out, that would be a crime, but she did the same thing whilst in the house!

I'm not sure why you believe that she took such powerful sedatives, I'm not even sure that such powerful drugs exist for use at home? I think that this whole argument comes from her statements which only seek to distance her from what ultimately happened to Logan, I don't really believe what she says MOO

 

[Skigh]

I'm not sure why you believe that she took such powerful sedatives, I'm not even sure that such powerful drugs exist for use at home? I think that this whole argument comes from her statements which only seek to distance her from what ultimately happened to Logan, I don't really believe what she says MOO

I fully agree. The fact that her phone was used to look at youtube and lights were going on and off at different times during the night show she was not in a drug induced deep sleep.

 

[ChloLo]

I think we've heard enough about the Youth to know that he could have killed Logan himself at any point in time with no help from JC. MOO.

Martial arts kicks to the stomach and groin? Knocking him over using 'sweep' moves? Tripping / throwing him down the stairs?

I think it's quite fair to say that JC could have left the country and Logan's life still would have been at utmost threat. And equally / more so that of the baby as a baby can die instantly from any small incident. Their lives were at immediate risk both from the Youth and from the mother's habit of knock out sleeping. Add JC into the mix and they didn't stand a chance. I would suggest AW's life was also at utmost risk.

Personally, I'm not buying into any narrative that the baby was 'safe' due to being JC's flesh and blood. The baby was not safe from it's own mother by dint of the fact she took knock out medication at nights that she testifies she cannot be roused from. In and of itself, that makes her a clear and present danger to her own baby and own 5 year old. Bear in mind that JC and the Youth did not live full time together with AW, Logan, and the baby - so on nights when she was their sole care taker, she was effectively abandoning them by knocking herself out. Anything could have happened. If she'd left the house and gone out, that would be a crime, but she did the same thing whilst in the house!

Also when they were all together at JC's home they were in a house with stairs and a violent, unmanageable youth. At any time something very serious indeed could have happened. It is being implied the Youth has some kind of cognitive issue, low IQ, or learning disability in addition to being uncontrollably violent. I doubt even an adult was safe from him, hence why JC got awarded him in the first place.

Nobody in that house was safe - in ranking of 'safest' would be JC at the top, the Youth second top, and AW third.

In ranking of most unsafe - a baby is always the highest risk, then Logan, then AW, then JC and the Youth joint bottom and I think either one of them was so deranged they could have killed one another on purpose or misadventure at some point.

We've heard no mention of weapons being used, or makeshift weaponry, or things like fire starting. But all those types of things exist within the remit of disturbed, violent, teens and adults.

AW must be held to account for this as she will be doubtless fighting for her baby back. And UK Social Services being the pathetic thing they are will be fighting for her to.

You don’t have to buy it, but it does happen that a new partner comes along. The couple have a new baby and a half sibling with a different parent is pushed out (at best) or abused/killed (at worst)
<modsnip: referenced post removed>

 

[Popcorn80]

After spending the night in A&E with my little one over the weekend with a suspected fracture. (Bloody trampoline- doing well now.) I can’t help feel more for Logan, the screams in pain on any movement with definitely a lot more analgesia than paracetamol. While thinking about this case on the drive home what got me the most is the 80% chance of survival if they had just sort medical help, instead of thinking of no one but themselves!

 

[neteditor]

After spending the night in A&E with my little one over the weekend with a suspected fracture. (Bloody trampoline- doing well now.) I can’t help feel more for Logan, the screams in pain on any movement with definitely a lot more analgesia than paracetamol. While thinking about this case on the drive home what got me the most is the 80% chance of survival if they had just sort medical help, instead of thinking of no one but themselves!

Cases like these, where a child has suffered broken bones and the accused caregivers claim to have treated it with paracetamol or ignored it, make me heave. I had a tiny wrist fracture at 8 years old and I will never forget the pain. I will simply never believe that caregivers "didn't know" the child had an injury that required medical care, or thought they could treat it themselves. This is where any "faith" I might have had in AW's testimony completely dies (not that I had any, of course).

 

[Kitkat28]

Cases like these, where a child has suffered broken bones and the accused caregivers claim to have treated it with paracetamol or ignored it, make me heave. I had a tiny wrist fracture at 8 years old and I will never forget the pain. I will simply never believe that caregivers "didn't know" the child had an injury that required medical care, or thought they could treat it themselves. This is where any "faith" I might have had in AW's testimony completely dies (not that I had any, of course).

I think a lot of abused or neglected children learn fairly early on that there’s no point crying or making a fuss because either no one is particularly interested or they will get battered more for crying so they stay quiet.