UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #3

[Kitkat28]

I'm going to just put this out there..doesn't mean I agree or disagree.

Has anyone ever thought that AW might be the only one that killed Logan and is making John look like the guilty one because he's known to the police so people will point the finger and him and the youth? Because both have troubles pasts.. because who would blame the mother...?!
I have known some very controling woman who are bloody clever with how they speak and act and will make everyone else look bad just so they themselves look perfect...even though there not! I think the night Logan was killed she's kicked off with John and made him take Logan to the river and John's told the youth to come to protect him. I know it sounds out there but I could see it happen...and the second time they went out to look for Logan he's spoken to the youth and told him to stay quiet and not speak to police ect. John's story hasn't changed but AWs has. The youth is messed up in the head and probably doesn't know what to say or do so he's tried to stick to the story John has told so he's.not going to get into to much trouble.

Something doesn't sit right with me.

I do believe people can turn there lives around easily. Especially after the death of a loved one,(his sister) and he's kept his head down. So maybe it's AW that's the controling partner..not him.


Just my opinion. Thinking out loud.

Guess we wont ever know the full truths

I tend to agree with you on a lot of this.

I think the idea that AW couldn’t have inflicted the injuries on Logan because she’s a woman is bizarre.

 

[wowiezowie]

From JC's testimony today it seems the reason AW stopped contact with her mother is because she left Logan in the car alone while she went to the bank and someone (a passer by)? phoned the police.

 

[tedtink]

From JC's testimony today it seems the reason AW stopped contact with her mother is because she left Logan in the car alone while she went to the bank and someone (a passer by)? phoned the police.

There once was a time when it was totally acceptable to leave kids in cars, or even in prams outside shops
Or was it just my parents that did that?

 

[Seattle1]

From JC's testimony today it seems the reason AW stopped contact with her mother is because she left Logan in the car alone while she went to the bank and someone (a passer by)? phoned the police.

Not making excuses for the dangerous event here but I think the action by the event became more about an unexpected coincidence where a younger Logan was linked to a police report and where he might now be of interest to social services -- it would def be an unwelcome burden on the couple.

(I believe the last time the grandmother had contact with them was around Jan 2020??)...

Just speculating but perhaps this incident resulted in a follow-up from social services and where they first learned of JC's relationship with AW (sparking the protection register per JC's criminal history).

Regardless of the timing, I also don't doubt that JC would view this incident as cause for retaliatory action where the grandmother was banned from seeing and/or spending time with Logan. How very convenient for JC to isolate and have full control over AW. MOO

 

[Cherwell]

oops wrong thread

 

[Kasmeer]

I'm going to just put this out there..doesn't mean I agree or disagree.

Has anyone ever thought that AW might be the only one that killed Logan and is making John look like the guilty one because he's known to the police so people will point the finger and him and the youth? Because both have troubles pasts.. because who would blame the mother...?!
I have known some very controling woman who are bloody clever with how they speak and act and will make everyone else look bad just so they themselves look perfect...even though there not! I think the night Logan was killed she's kicked off with John and made him take Logan to the river and John's told the youth to come to protect him. I know it sounds out there but I could see it happen...and the second time they went out to look for Logan he's spoken to the youth and told him to stay quiet and not speak to police ect. John's story hasn't changed but AWs has. The youth is messed up in the head and probably doesn't know what to say or do so he's tried to stick to the story John has told so he's.not going to get into to much trouble.

Something doesn't sit right with me.

I do believe people can turn there lives around easily. Especially after the death of a loved one,(his sister) and he's kept his head down. So maybe it's AW that's the controling partner..not him.


Just my opinion. Thinking out loud.

Guess we wont ever know the full truths

Great post that's opened my eyes; I'd been biased and only really looking at the two males in the house, but you're quite right, there's no reason why it couldn't be the other way around based on what we've heard so far.

I do hope the jury have heard more useful information than we have, as right now I can see plausible cases for any one of the three to have killed Logan, and any one or two having only been involved in the coverup... which isn't likely to result in anyone being convicted of murder if it's so hard to even figure out which is the most likely, never mind being sure beyond reasonable doubt! All three should get PCOJ, and the two adults are surely likely to be found guilty of causing or allowing the death (if that's an option in this case), as I see no way neither was aware of the abuse or Logan's condition in the hours before his death, whoever was dealing it. But I'd hate to be on the jury trying to figure out just who should be found guilty of murder when if could be any one, two or all three of them

 

[Fidobell]

Just catching up. Many thanks for updates and all discussion around this trial .

 

[Kitkat28]

One thing that keeps niggling away at me; when did JC and/or AW have time to supposedly coach the youth so comprehensively in what to say to the police?

 

[Doris777]

Great post that's opened my eyes; I'd been biased and only really looking at the two males in the house, but you're quite right, there's no reason why it couldn't be the other way around based on what we've heard so far.

I do hope the jury have heard more useful information than we have, as right now I can see plausible cases for any one of the three to have killed Logan, and any one or two having only been involved in the coverup... which isn't likely to result in anyone being convicted of murder if it's so hard to even figure out which is the most likely, never mind being sure beyond reasonable doubt! All three should get PCOJ, and the two adults are surely likely to be found guilty of causing or allowing the death (if that's an option in this case), as I see no way neither was aware of the abuse or Logan's condition in the hours before his death, whoever was dealing it. But I'd hate to be on the jury trying to figure out just who should be found guilty of murder when if could be any one, two or all three of them

I think it's going to be very hard for the jury to decide. In the beginning u would think youth because of his violence at school ect. They u think John cos of his past ect and from what's been said. But then u have AW...she's said some crazy random things that are all lies. Especially that she was asleep all night when we know she wasn't. Her overly dramatic response to Logan being missing. Among other stuff. I don't know about her... something is saying it's her.
I think from the point of view of someone who's delt with a narssasistic mother and how bad she was with her kids I see something in AW that's the same. She just doesn't sit right with me.

The youth I don't know about. I see a damaged kid who's lashing out because he knows nothing else and he doesn't know how to be "normal". Doesn't make him a killer just for that reason.

I just wish they would tell the truth.

Next few days will be interesting

All moo

 

[Doris777]

One thing that keeps niggling away at me; when did JC and/or AW have time to supposedly coach the youth so comprehensively in what to say to the police?

I think cole did when he took Logan to the river.

 

[Doris777]

I get what you are saying. We tend to blame men for physical violence before women.
But I absolutely know that many women are mean as snakes and have often killed their own children, brutally so.

In this case, I think they were all bullying and beating this sweet boy.

Woman can be evil nasty things but look so inocent and perfect. And that's coming from a woman. I've seen it first hand how nasty they can be but make everyone look like the bad guys.
I think AW is just as much to blame as anyone. I do have a feeling she's manipulated the lads to do her dirty work tho. It doesn't explain if cole worked and was away from the house alot. If he was she could have been hurting Logan while no one was there. Vice versa as well.

I don't know about the youth. I think he needs some serious help.

Which ever way I definitely think they all need punishment.
I think cole has been the only one honest enough to admit his part in the crime tho..the others haven't. But I still sit undecided on who did this. It's just very sad.

 

[neteditor]

One thing that keeps niggling away at me; when did JC and/or AW have time to supposedly coach the youth so comprehensively in what to say to the police?

Logan was found on 31 July in the early morning. The arrests were made on 1 August. There was the best part of a whole day to discuss stories.

 

[JosieJo]

At the moment I'm more inclined to think they all agreed to the "disappearance" story and a pact to say nothing...once JC was presented with CCTV he changed his plan and admitted disposing of Logan.
Once AW heard he had admitted this she told some of what happened.
At the moment I'm more inclined to think JC hit him with the youth in the background egged on by it.
I do not think this because he is male I base those thoughts on things AW said ...she added detail such as "JC held his top up and took joy out of the marks he left" ..I'm not convinced she would add that detail to a lie
I think they rowed over the harsh blows and she spent the night in his room turning the light on every now and again to see if he was breathing..jmo based on information to date.
He struck the blows , she allowed him to die and both should get guilty...I'm really not sure yet what the outcome will be for the youth

 

[ChloLo]

Woman can be evil nasty things but look so inocent and perfect. And that's coming from a woman. I've seen it first hand how nasty they can be but make everyone look like the bad guys.
I think AW is just as much to blame as anyone. I do have a feeling she's manipulated the lads to do her dirty work tho. It doesn't explain if cole worked and was away from the house alot. If he was she could have been hurting Logan while no one was there. Vice versa as well.

I don't know about the youth. I think he needs some serious help.

Which ever way I definitely think they all need punishment.
I think cole has been the only one honest enough to admit his part in the crime tho..the others haven't. But I still sit undecided on who did this. It's just very sad.

I’ve been thinking along these lines. That AW is more involved and responsible.

 

[Sherlockhames]

At the moment I'm more inclined to think they all agreed to the "disappearance" story and a pact to say nothing...once JC was presented with CCTV he changed his plan and admitted disposing of Logan.
Once AW heard he had admitted this she told some of what happened.
At the moment I'm more inclined to think JC hit him with the youth in the background egged on by it.
I do not think this because he is male I base those thoughts on things AW said ...she added detail such as "JC held his top up and took joy out of the marks he left" ..I'm not convinced she would add that detail to a lie
I think they rowed over the harsh blows and she spent the night in his room turning the light on every now and again to see if he was breathing..jmo based on information to date.
He struck the blows , she allowed him to die and both should get guilty...I'm really not sure yet what the outcome will be for the youth

Yes - this is where I am too. She might have even been a bit low level spiteful, but nothing dangerous. I think she probably was a good mum and certainly cared, but maybe got frustrated with him sometimes and this is what JC has built on. So maybe JCs testimony isn’t a total fabrication but contains a bit more embellishment of her role and minimising of his - and certainly writing the youth out of the picture completely. But I’m still inclined to believe JC and the youth were responsible but so is she for not doing anything to protect her son.
But I also get the impression there is a lot more being said in the courtroom which is not being reported which may make this a bit clearer for the courtroom.

 

[neteditor]

"Ms Hales told the jury Williamson and Cole had a stricter parenting style than her but there was “nothing to suggest anything other than a strict parent”.

Ms Hales said the little boy was "quieter" and "less playful" around Cole, who he called his dad."

Logan Mwangi's mum said ‘What have you done with my son?’ after alleged murder | ITV News

This is a very telling testimony for me. This is one reason why I lean towards JC as the main perpetrator of abuse towards Logan.

 

[Sherlockhames]

"Ms Hales told the jury Williamson and Cole had a stricter parenting style than her but there was “nothing to suggest anything other than a strict parent”.

Ms Hales said the little boy was "quieter" and "less playful" around Cole, who he called his dad."

Logan Mwangi's mum said ‘What have you done with my son?’ after alleged murder | ITV News

This is a very telling testimony for me. This is one reason why I lean towards JC as the main perpetrator of abuse towards Logan.

Agree - Although she was a friend of AW. And given this awful situation ended up with the death of a child she clearly liked and was involved with I wouldn’t be surprised if she was to some extent minimising a little bit. If in her statement she said AW was also awful then she might feel that subs consciously also implicates herself. And so, consciously or not she is trying to shift onto JC. Even unrelated 3rd party witness testimony isn’t fact or dispassionate “truth” everything we say and so and report etc is in some way filtered. So while it could be completely true, it could also not paint the full picture. (This is where I think for instance teachers are maybe a bit more reliable as they are less personally involved with the parents as perpetrators and their sole focus is the child).

 

[mrazda71]

There once was a time when it was totally acceptable to leave kids in cars, or even in prams outside shops
Or was it just my parents that did that?

There was once a time when it was totally acceptable to smack your children - now it's illegal in Scotland (since 2020) and Wales (just last week) ... times change eh, for the better hopefully.

 

[neteditor]

Agree - Although she was a friend of AW. And given this awful situation ended up with the death of a child she clearly liked and was involved with I wouldn’t be surprised if she was to some extent minimising a little bit. If in her statement she said AW was also awful then she might feel that subs consciously also implicates herself. And so, consciously or not she is trying to shift onto JC. Even unrelated 3rd party witness testimony isn’t fact or dispassionate “truth” everything we say and so and report etc is in some way filtered. So while it could be completely true, it could also not paint the full picture. (This is where I think for instance teachers are maybe a bit more reliable as they are less personally involved with the parents as perpetrators and their sole focus is the child).

It's never possible to know someone's motivations, I agree, but I suppose a part of me likes to think someone who loved that boy would stand up and tell the truth. We didn't get a great deal of evidence from her here (it's on page 7 of this thread if anyone want's to freshen memory). I feel she went pretty easy on both of them, from what we saw. As many have already said, thank goodness I am not on that jury.

 

[mrazda71]

Agree - Although she was a friend of AW. And given this awful situation ended up with the death of a child she clearly liked and was involved with I wouldn’t be surprised if she was to some extent minimising a little bit. If in her statement she said AW was also awful then she might feel that subs consciously also implicates herself. And so, consciously or not she is trying to shift onto JC. Even unrelated 3rd party witness testimony isn’t fact or dispassionate “truth” everything we say and so and report etc is in some way filtered. So while it could be completely true, it could also not paint the full picture. (This is where I think for instance teachers are maybe a bit more reliable as they are less personally involved with the parents as perpetrators and their sole focus is the child).

True but ... teachers only see with limited vision. Children often behave very differently at school to home, contact with parents is limited and teachers aren't saints. You'd be absolutely shocked if you heard what went on and was said between staff in some* schools

*some - I'm thinking about my time working in a school where I live. I'm sure there ARE wonderful schools with a Miss honey in every classroom elsewhere.

I'd also suggest that no one ever wants to say anything 'bad' about a dead child. Even if that child were the most disruptive in a class, they're not going to say that if that child is dead. They're going to say only good things.
*not suggesting anything about Logan personally, just speaking generally*

Just like a dead 14 year old is a 'poor boy, poor child, barely a teenager' but an accused 14 year old is 'practically a grown man, as good as adult' ...