UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #4

[katydid23]

Good question. It's being stated as 'an accepted truth' and people have been saying right since the accounts of the Youth's behaviour when he was in foster care were reported ... but... where did this 'fact' originate ?

Was it in the testimony from the youth's social worker, maybe? I thought that was where I heard it described. IIRC

 

[Skigh]

If I was being blamed for being part of murdering my kid I wouldn’t be able to help losing my temper towards the lawyer accusing me. I get the vibe she isn’t as guilty as I first thought :/

The lawyer was only asking her to account for the discrepancies in her account about what happened .

What makes you feel she is not as guilty as first thought?

 

[BabaVanga]

The lawyer was only asking her to account for the discrepancies in her account about what happened .

What makes you feel she is not as guilty as first thought?

Don’t know I just don’t feel she knew how much little Logan was suffering. She should’ve got him help though so she’s definitely guilty of allowing him to die. Ah I dont know it’s such a confusing case

 

[Skigh]

Don’t know I just don’t feel she knew how much little Logan was suffering. She should’ve got him help though so she’s definitely guilty of allowing him to die. Ah I dont know it’s such a confusing case

Given the extent of his injuries I find it hard to believe she was not aware of how ill he was.

 

[katydid23]

Don’t know I just don’t feel she knew how much little Logan was suffering. She should’ve got him help though so she’s definitely guilty of allowing him to die. Ah I dont know it’s such a confusing case

Have you read the list of severe injuries he had? I think it would be impossible for her not to see how seriously ill he was.

His internal injuries were quite severe. He would have been in severe pain and he would not have been up running around, jumping over baby gates or helping her clean his room, and all that.


Logan Mwangi: jury hears of boy’s horrific injuries before alleged murder
George Lammie, a neuropathologist who examined Logan’s brain, said the trauma caused widespread bleeding and swelling. Asked what symptoms such injuries would cause, Lammie said: “If the brain continues to swell, brain dysfunction may manifest rapidly. This may manifest in headaches, nausea and vomiting, confusion or reduction in consciousness level. And if it continues it will cause a coma and then death.”

There appears to have been a significant period of survival after head injury and after critical reduction in blood to the brain. It appears to have been at least several hours. And it’s possible that there was more than one episode of head injury.”

The jury was told that Logan also had a broken collar bone, which showed signs of healing, though it was knitting together poorly. The pathologist said this injury was “at least several weeks old”.

'Murdered Logan Mwangi suffered injuries similar to car crash or fall from height of more than 10ft' | Daily Mail Online
A five-year-old boy allegedly murdered by his mother and stepfather suffered 'extreme pain' and received injuries similar to a car crash or a fall from height more than 10ft, a top paediatrician said in court today.

Cardiff Crown Court heard the youngster suffered damage to his brain that could have been caused up to 38 hours before his death.

Dr Stalker said: 'Logan had very severe abdominal injuries.

She was asked how much pain was suffered by Logan before he died.

Dr Stalker said: 'It would be very nasty.'

The doctor said children who have experienced these injuries would have been given morphine to deal with the pain and paracetamol would not have been enough to treat it.

Dr Stalker said: 'He would cry and maybe scream, he certainly wouldn't have been silent. What we don't know is if he was conscious.

'It makes me come to the opinion this was non-accidental.'

Logan sustained multiple bruises to his chest, belly button and abdominal muscles.

The court heard Logan, who was 3ft 5in tall, had a total of 56 separate injures to his body including 'deep slap bruising' to his head.

The injuries were so severe they would be expected to be seen in a high-speed car smash or a fall over 10ft.

His mother cried in the dock as she heard her son suffered from hypoxic-ischaemic brain injury as well as a torn liver and bowel.

 

[wowiezowie]

Did anyone view her Tiktok page before it was taken down? I just wondered when the last video was posted? Someone else here said AW and the youth featured heavily in her tiktoks but Logan was hardly shown.
It would be interested to see the videos posted closest to the 30th July and what they showed

 

[mrazda71]

IF ... just if, we were to believe that Angharad did put Logan to bed then went to bed herself ... is there a possibility that there could have been a further attack that was THE fatal attack - perhaps by the youth, which is why John was so keen to 'go down for murder' for the youth ... ?

 

[Lucy6226]

IF ... just if, we were to believe that Angharad did put Logan to bed then went to bed herself ... is there a possibility that there could have been a further attack that was THE fatal attack - perhaps by the youth, which is why John was so keen to 'go down for murder' for the youth ... ?

Maybe in anger because Logan was keeping him awake crying in agony?

 

[katydid23]

IF ... just if, we were to believe that Angharad did put Logan to bed then went to bed herself ... is there a possibility that there could have been a further attack that was THE fatal attack - perhaps by the youth, which is why John was so keen to 'go down for murder' for the youth ... ?

If so, who was turning the bedroom light on and off and opening and closing the bedroom curtains, while JC and the youth were out disposing of the body? And who was on AW's cell watching videos?

It is hard for me to believe AW's version of the story. IF in fact, she was so worried about JC assaulting Logan and threatening to kill Logan, etc, why would she take pills that would knock her out and leave Logan alone with his abusers? That part of the story doesn't ring true to me.

And it is hard for me to believe her, when she says she thought the child may have been attacked or kidnapped by 'that woman' ----because she already knew that JC and the youthful offender had been violent towards Logan very recently. So why suddenly bring that woman into it, other than if it was deflection and part of a cover up. JMO

Also, the medical reports indicated there were possibly a few assaults over a span of time. They believe the serious injuries may have happened up to 40 hours previous to his death. I don't believe it all happened just a few hours before he was disposed of. JMO

 

[Seattle1]

I also know several people with epilepsy who work, in a variety of jobs. You are certainly ‘allowed’ to, but if you want to milk it and play it up as much as possible you could use it as an excuse if you didn’t want to work

It was previously confirmed that AW does NOT have epilepsy. (It's AW that alleges she has epilepsy).

Reportedly, AW has non-epileptic seizures (NES) also known as psychogenic nonepileptic seizures (PNES).

What Exactly Are PNES?
PNES are attacks that may look like epileptic seizures but are not caused by abnormal brain electrical discharges. Instead, they are a manifestation of psychological distress. PNES are not a unique disorder but are a specific type of a larger group of psychiatric conditions that manifest as physical symptoms. Those used to be called somatoform disorders (DSM4) and are now termed somatic symptoms disorders (DSM5). PNES can also be considered dissociative disorders.

Frequently, people with PNES may look like they are experiencing generalized convulsions similar to tonic-clonic seizures with falling and shaking. Less frequently, PNES may mimic absence seizures or focal impaired awarneness (previously called complex partial) seizures. A physician may suspect PNES when the seizures have unusual features, such as type of movements, duration, triggers, and frequency.

The Truth about Psychogenic Nonepileptic Seizures

 

[neteditor]

Poor JC and the Youth, they were going to get away with this perfect murder if it wasn't for that pesky AW being a terrible liar. / sarcasm

I wonder if they were hoping Logan wouldn't be found in the river for quite some time? After there'd been an abduction wild goose chase? Maybe they thought it'd be a few days before he was found? At which point, they could say Logan must have wandered off to the river to skim stones, and he couldn't swim of course, and he'd been rather rambunctious in the house in the last few days so if he was covered in bumps and bruises then that would be it.

I think that's exactly it. This has been itching at me, since he gave evidence. I believe JC lobbed that poor boy into the river fully intending him to wash many miles away and not be found until it was too late to connect them to his injuries.

 

[hotcrossed84]

The speculation on here is wild

 

[neteditor]

The speculation on here is wild

LOL... welcome to WebSleuths.

 

[Doris777]

The speculation on here is wild

I agree.

 

[Moll]

Was it in the testimony from the youth's social worker, maybe? I thought that was where I heard it described. IIRC

See tedtink's post #465.

 

[Seattle1]

Prosecution closes cases in Logan Mwangi murder trial

Five bin bags

When asked about the trip to dump rubbish in the river, the youth said he and Cole began speaking about the rubbish but he couldn’t remember what time it was.

Youth: “We said who’s going to carry what bag and we went out, took the bags, took them and threw them in the river…..”

DC Saunders: “Did he turn the lights on?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “Did you turn any lights on?”

Youth: “No, there was no lights in the living room.”

He added: “We were on about how many bags and what bags were there, where the bags were and what bags needed to be taken out. They’re just black bags, I don’t know what was in them, just polystyrene and broken toys. It was all the stuff in the back garden and we all bagged it up.”

DC Saunders: “Were you involved in bagging it up?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “Did you see what was inside the bags?”

Youth: “No.”

DC Saunders: “How many bags?”

Youth: “Three, there were five left I think.”

DC Saunders: “But you took three?”

Youth: “Yes.”

DC Saunders: “What did (Cole) say about the rubbish?”

Youth: “He was just saying we need to get rid of some. It was going to cost hundreds, someone phoned up and asked how much it was going to take them and he said quite a few tonne.”

DC Saunders: “What did (Cole) say about getting rid of those bags?”

Youth: “He didn’t say anything… We just picked up the three bags, went through, went to the river chucked them out.”

The youth said he didn’t carry any of the bags to the river and Cole carried them.

He said five bags were left by the wooden fence in the back garden.

Youth: “I picked up two, (Cole) picked up one and I helped him get through (the front door). I passed them back to him… The back gate is loud and we didn’t want to wake anybody up.”

_________________

So JC testified that he never saw the youth or was aware that he followed him to the river but the youth previously told investigators that they had a discussion about the bags, and how many were going to the river, but he didn't recall the time.

There were 5 pre-packed black bags, JC picked up one, the youth had two, and he passed his two bags to JC who carried 3 bags out of the loud gate, and to the river. The youth is clear that he didn't carry anything to the river but that he went along as the watch out...

 

[Sooty]

It's a fact, presented as evidence and wouldn't have been quoted otherwise.
Here it is, for those who missed it the first time round.

John Hipkin QC begins cross-examination
Barrister John Hipkin QC, for the youth defendant, asks the social worker whether anyone who spent time with the teenager would see that he would "say, shout, even sometimes sing things which were "designed to provoke, to get a rise out of people" - the witness agrees that is the case.

The barrister asks whether the teenager could be "aggravating" or annoying in a physical sense such as poking or kicking - again the witness says yes, adding that sometimes when he was travelling in the back seat of her car, for example, he would pull the seat belt.

The court hears the teenager was originally taken into care after allegedly suffering a "serious assault" at the hands of his mother.


Youth accused of murdering boy, 5, had 'desire for violence' , jury told

Rsbm

The court hears the teenager was originally taken into care after allegedly suffering a "serious assault" at the hands of his mother.

That word ‘allegedly’, used here, is very interesting.
It suggests it has been claimed but not proven.

It would be interesting to know the time frame when it was supposed to have taken place.

For the record, I have no reason to disbelieve the youth had suffered an assault, just find the fact that it has not been proven (yet) that it was the case, and by whom, but allowed in court documents - interesting. I guess there must be relevance to the case, perhaps?

 

[Seattle1]

Prosecution closes cases in Logan Mwangi murder trial

'How did you carry Logan?'

DC Neal said: “It sounds like that caused you a bit of distress.

“Is there anything you did during that day with all of this going on which might have accounted for what has happened to Logan here?”

Cole said: “Not that I am aware of.”

When asked about why he decided to dump Logan near the river, Cole said: “I was just panicking. I went down there and put him on the edge of the bank, looked up and (the youth) was there. I said ‘Come on (the youth) let’s go’... I literally put him down, heard sounds behind me and saw (the youth).”

DC Neal said: “How did you carry Logan?”

Cole said: “In my arms. I placed him down, he was lying on his side.”

DC Neal said: “He was found in the river.”

Cole said: “I didn’t put him in the river.”

DC Neal said: “I have seen that video of him being recovered, he was 10 feet out in the river, do you know how he came from the bank into the river?”

Cole said: “No.”

DC Neal said: “Could (the youth) have moved him?”

Cole said: “No, (the youth) came nowhere near him.”

DC Neal said: “Not a lot of thought went into how you dumped Logan?”

Cole said: “No.”

The defendant said he went back out to dump the pyjama top across the bridge.

______________

I'm not recalling that JC testified that he was previously untruthful during his interview that he carried Logan in his arms, and made no mention of the Nike holdall bag.

Seems to me that JC's last version of stuffing Logan in the Nike holdall bag, with AW's assistance, never came up before until he was on the witness stand.

 

[Moll]

Rsbm

The court hears the teenager was originally taken into care after allegedly suffering a "serious assault" at the hands of his mother.

That word ‘allegedly’, used here, is very interesting.
It suggests it has been claimed but not proven.

It would be interesting to know the time frame when it was supposed to have taken place.

For the record, I have no reason to disbelieve the youth had suffered an assault, just find the fact that it has not been proven (yet) that it was the case, and by whom, but allowed in court documents - interesting. I guess there must be relevance to the case, perhaps?

Yes, that's interesting. It's a fact that it was alleged that the youth was assaulted by his mother but we don't know what actually happened, as you say. I think that sentence from the Wales online coverage is all we know.

 

[Airhead93]

to be fair years ago I was prescribed Zopiclone & they knocked me out within half an hour & highly addictive.

I would also be knocked out and when they stopped giving them to me I felt awful and couldn’t sleep