GUILTY UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #5

[wowiezowie]

I have to agree, Ms Rees was fantastic. Very succinct, powerful and moving. Hopefully all three found guilty of murder and AW for PTCOG too. Can't believe they still maintained their own innocence even when faced with obvious evidence and CCTV footage. The two adults are shameless in their lies and fabrication to save their own skins. Logan deserves the absolute truth to be told and the people punished for his cruel suffering and subsequent death.

 

[tedtink]

The way Ms Rees described the youth's behavior in Court today, it sounds to me suspiciously like a 'thrill killing' on his part.

“obsessed with death and killing people”
“putting a lit match in a powdered keg with tragic results”.
“celebrate” or show no remorse, even showing “genuine pleasure from the death of Logan”.
“I love kids, I *advertiser censored***** love kid, I love to punch kids in the head, it’s orgasmic”.
“He made it clear he was revelling in the situation.”
“Where are the kids, I want to kill all the kids.”
“He was revelling in the fact he was being investigated and tried for the murder of a child. There was a deep seated desire to see Logan dead and lack of remorse or sorrow after it happened.”

Logan Mwangi murder trial live updates as judge gives legal directions

JMO

 

[neteditor]

Sure, evidence should speak by themselves.

I've always thought the words of urging to vote in a special way, are forbidden.

Only if the Judge does it, it's ok for the prosecution and defence to do so.

 

[Planet24]

My understanding is that JC was presented with the CCTV which IMO shows LM's arms crossed over his shoulder. Later when JC had thought about it, he suggested (made up) that the cross on his back was the Nike 'tick' - This was done to cover for the youth who said he had seen nothing, and hadn't seen JC carrying LM to the river.
Also when JC mentioned putting LM into the bag, with AW, in Court, AW made a bit of a fuss about it - I think JC is lying about the bag.
No forensics were mentioned regarding the bag either.

The bag wasn't retrieved from Maeglas until March 2 this year, so bit of an afterthought on JC's part.

MOO

Ok. I hadnt thought of it as a cover up.
How have you seen the cctv? I thought that was just for court?

 

[tedtink]

Ok. I hadnt thought of it as a cover up.
How have you seen the cctv? I thought that was just for court?

I haven't seen the CCTV but JC did in his Police interviews.

 

[Planet24]

do we know why the youth is never in court and is only on screen?

Maybe because he is under 18? I was on Jury Duty in the same court in a child case and the child was on video screen then. It is still in the court building but away from the public I suppose

 

[RusselSprout]

In scotland, fairly recent alesha macphail murder trial, 14 year old defendant had to face court in person.

the youth should have to face the trial, in person.

It draws comparison to sabina nessa murderer who refused to come to court to face his sentence.

What's happening to the world. I'm not saying the youth refused. But he should have been made to be there.

 

[mrazda71]

In scotland, fairly recent alesha macphail murder trial, 14 year old defendant had to face court in person.

the youth should have to face the trial, in person.

It draws comparison to sabina nessa murderer who refused to come to court to face his sentence.

What's happening to the world. I'm not saying the youth refused. But he should have been made to be there.

Why?

 

[Dotta]

In scotland, fairly recent alesha macphail murder trial, 14 year old defendant had to face court in person.

the youth should have to face the trial, in person.

It draws comparison to sabina nessa murderer who refused to come to court to face his sentence.

What's happening to the world. I'm not saying the youth refused. But he should have been made to be there.

I don't think he cares.

It was said today that he "was thrilled to take part in murder investigation".

https://www-walesonline-co-uk.cdn.a...news/logan-mwangi-court-trial-murder-23663924

 

[Doughy]

In scotland, fairly recent alesha macphail murder trial, 14 year old defendant had to face court in person.

the youth should have to face the trial, in person.

It draws comparison to sabina nessa murderer who refused to come to court to face his sentence.

What's happening to the world. I'm not saying the youth refused. But he should have been made to be there.

Different court & legal system in Scotland.

I imagine the youth is in a secure unit miles away so they won't have him travelling.

 

[tedtink]

do we know why the youth is never in court and is only on screen?

I would imagine it's either too far away from where he is being held and/or it is because of his welfare i.e. classed as vulnerable/ disturbed.

JMO.

 

[Dotta]

I imagine the youth is in a secure unit miles away so they won't have him travelling.

It was said he is in the same Court building.

 

[Doughy]

It was said he is in the same Court building.

Ah OK.

Vulnerabilities then.

 

[starcrossx]

That youth was a child who needed protecting from his own mother and John Cole and was failed by as many adults as Logan was.

I often think it is perverse in this country that more often than not, people don't get access to the help they need until they have done something terrible.

 

[starcrossx]

In scotland, fairly recent alesha macphail murder trial, 14 year old defendant had to face court in person.

the youth should have to face the trial, in person.

It draws comparison to sabina nessa murderer who refused to come to court to face his sentence.

What's happening to the world. I'm not saying the youth refused. But he should have been made to be there.

The defendant in this case was 16, which I think (but not 100% sure) means they would have to appear at court in Scotland. I personally think that the defendant in that case would have insisted given what we know about him. He seemed to have enjoyed causing more distress to the family and would have wanted to see that in person in my opinion.

Like I say I'm not 100% sure on the law and I suspect vulnerable witnesses could appear by video link over the age of 16, but if you take into account you can marry in Scotland at 16 without parental knowledge/consent I think physical presence in a court when you are the accused is required.

 

[Linnyg]

I have a feeling that youth defendants are afforded a more relaxed court environment. For example, the judge can address them by first name, not wear wig and gown, etc. I feel that because he is on trial alongside two adults, the court is unable to make put these things in place and therefore it is best for him to appear via video. Someone said he is within the courts, just not in the same room. This would make sense I suppose from a legal POV to ensure his rights as a child defendant are met. He would have someone from the YOT with him as advocate, and a legal representative I would think.

Do we know how much of the court room the youth can see? And if the court are able to hear him at all times?

 

[Doris777]

I think that the youth is away from the court room because he's to disruptive to be in a court room. I can imagine he's not one so sit still and stay quiet.

All moo

 

[Alicethroughtheglass]

How old is he at this point? 15? I would personally assume his age is the reason he is in court via video link, it’s pretty standard and I don’t think it means anything about him as an individual. His identity is currently protected, so he can’t sit in a court with a public gallery and press etc… surely that’s obvious. When a minor is found guilty isn’t it at that point the judge can rule the restrictions are lifted?

 

[Rednaxela]

Is the jury able to see the youth’s reactions to the various evidence being presented to the court, and the explanations being put forward by the other defendants? I would expect these visible insights are invaluable to them forming a view, much as the reactions of AW and JC have been inside the courtroom.

 

[HilaryHormone]

In scotland, fairly recent alesha macphail murder trial, 14 year old defendant had to face court in person.

the youth should have to face the trial, in person.

It draws comparison to sabina nessa murderer who refused to come to court to face his sentence.

What's happening to the world. I'm not saying the youth refused. But he should have been made to be there.

Alesha’s murderer was 16. I reckon the youth’s participation via video link was requested by his lawyers, because it’s a high profile case maybe?

I think he should have attended in person too, he’s already been reported as celebrating Logan’s death and revelling in the ‘clout’ of his charges, maybe participating in person would have reinforced how serious the situation is.

I often think it is perverse in this country that more often than not, people don't get access to the help they need until they have done something terrible.

Stretched services and high legal thresholds mean we’re always going to be ‘fire fighting’, we need a restructure and more targeted early intervention.

The youth seems to be a product of his environment. I wonder how long social work were involved in his life, how long they tried to maintain the family unit before removing him. To then place him with a man like JC is mind boggling, would be interested in hearing more about that set up.