GUILTY UK - Mikaeel Kular, 3, Edinburgh, Scotland, 15 Jan 2014 - #2

[JerricaBenton]

The reason we dont know what she is charged with is because here in Scotland, the charge isn't announced until they appear in court. Thats when the charge is announced, the procurator fiscal decides if that charge is suitable, and can change it at that point. Thats when it becomes public knowledge.

 

[Inge Jones]

In a way the English system of police bail where the suspect can be recalled for further questioning seems more practical. Firstly it seems a bit unrealistic to expect an autopsy to be complete in 24 hours, in order to know what happened and ask all the right questions, and secondly, being able to let a suspect free for a few days before bringing them in again does at least allow them to get some rest and proper legal advice. These are specially important for the ones who turn out to be innocent in order to get the best chance to recover from the ordeal without PTSD

 

[marlywings]

What would be the average time for a case to get to trial in Scotland??

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Marlywings, i couldnt find an average time sorry, there may be something in this link,

http://www.victimsofcrimeinscotland.org.uk/the-justice-process/court-process/court-and-trials/

 

[kaos]

What would be the average time for a case to get to trial in Scotland??

There used to be something called the '110 day lie down' where people who were remanded in custody had to have their trial start within 110 days of the trial date being given. If the trial didn't start on time, they could simply walk free of all charges. I know there was supposed to be new legislation about this but can't find if it's actually been updated or if it's still at the discussion stage.

 

[kaos]

I noticed this in today's Daily Mail

In Nigeria, Ms Kular’s mother-in-law, Yetunde, said that Rosie now has an as-yet unnamed partner.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Yeah youre right Kaos, although i thought it was 6 months?, maybe that was changed to the 110 days then changed again since, unsure its been a while since ive had to worry about that.

 

[~n/t~]

In a way the English system of police bail where the suspect can be recalled for further questioning seems more practical. Firstly it seems a bit unrealistic to expect an autopsy to be complete in 24 hours, in order to know what happened and ask all the right questions, and secondly, being able to let a suspect free for a few days before bringing them in again does at least allow them to get some rest and proper legal advice. These are specially important for the ones who turn out to be innocent in order to get the best chance to recover from the ordeal without PTSD

Are you referring to this case? Is she out on bail? I'm still catching up and the headlines so far state she was arrested and charged with the murder.

If you are referring to this case are you suggesting the system is fair and the suspect needs some time to rest?

Just trying to understand your post.

 

[alreetlike]

I'm still following this case with interest and sadness but I can't bear to read anything on social media about it due to the vitriolic, racist comments being thrown around all over the place. :banghead: Sometimes I'm so embarrassed by the UK.

 

[kaos]

Yeah youre right Kaos, although i thought it was 6 months?, maybe that was changed to the 110 days then changed again since, unsure its been a while since ive had to worry about that.

It's an old law so you may be correct about the length of time rather than me.

Here's a famous case where it applied. The report is from 2001.

www.thefreelibrary.com/5+HOURS+FROM+FREEDOM;+EXCLUSIVE:+Limbs+in+the+loch+killer+Beggs...-a079321171

 

[YidArmyRach]

Sadly, I bet it will be up to the 9 yr old to enlighten LE about what really happened. :cry:

Thinking back to the comments on social media (or was it a neighbour being interviewed?) that in the past she had gone out overnight and left the children locked in at home, then the dad arrived and couldn't get in, so Social Services became involved ....... just theorising here, and not suggesting, but with Christmas being a party season, and New Year in particular being a massive event in Edinburgh, it would be hard to get a baby sitter if a parent wanted to go out.

Reminiscent of another case, but what if the children had been left home alone, and something did happen in the middle of the night, when Mikaeel was sleeping alone? Panic sets in, as Social Services have already been involved before, and children removed from the home.

They do say that if you are going to lie, keep as close to the truth as possible, so your story is easy to recount. There could be some truth in the original story - put to bed at 7.00am and not checked again till the morning. But perhaps not that night, and not because the mum was asleep herself. Not saying he may have walked out of the apartment, but an accident may have occurred whilst he wasn't being supervised.

Just my opinion - well not even an opinion, just thinking out loud of what may have happened.

 

[Inge Jones]

Are you referring to this case?

No, this case is in Scotland, where I understand there is no such feature. There they get a maximum of 24 hours to question someone before charging them. This means if something comes up in autopsy or searches later, LE are in difficulties! That was my concern wrt this case, that they are still actually in the process of investigating, and yet they have already had to rush and lay the charges.

 

[Money Girl]

Why in the world would the mother, allegedly, have put the child's body behind her sister's home?

 

[~n/t~]

No, this case is in Scotland, where I understand there is no such feature. There they get a maximum of 24 hours to question someone before charging them. This means if something comes up in autopsy or searches later, LE are in difficulties! That was my concern wrt this case, that they are still actually in the process of investigating, and yet they have already had to rush and lay the charges.

I'm going to guess there was enough evidence at the crime scene to rule this was murder. A little 3 year old doesn't wander off in the dark. Perhaps mom confessed.

I will also speculate they may not have complete autopsy report but enough to make the arrest and charge. Example: ligature marks on the neck, bruising, skull fracture etc.

Giving the suspect bail so she can rest doesn't make any sense to me. She killed her defenceless little boy. Prison is where she belongs.

I don't believe this was an accident.

 

[onthecounter]

Why in the world would the mother, allegedly, have put the child's body behind her sister's home?

There's only one possibility that I can think of, and that is if he died in the sister's home...

But that's just my opinion, to others it might seem feasible that he died in Edinburgh and mum chose this spot, but this doesn't make sense to me. MOO

 

[YidArmyRach]

Why in the world would the mother, allegedly, have put the child's body behind her sister's home?

She wanted him to be near his family, and somewhere she could visit him in the future without causing suspicion?

That was my first thought when I heard that he'd been found there. That if it was an accidental death, and she panicked, then she wanted him buried as nicely as possible, and not alone.

I mean, its not as if she dumped him in a rubbish bin, or tossed his body into the sea never to be found. She has made effort to take him there, somewhere familiar to him and somewhere that he's probably played in with his brothers and sisters.

Just MOO.

 

[~n/t~]

She wanted him to be near his family, and somewhere she could visit him in the future without causing suspicion?

That was my first thought when I heard that he'd been found there. That if it was an accidental death, and she panicked, then she wanted him buried as nicely as possible, and not alone.

I mean, its not as if she dumped him in a rubbish bin, or tossed his body into the sea never to be found. She has made effort to take him there, somewhere familiar to him and somewhere that he's probably played in with his brothers and sisters.

Just MOO.

Do we know for a fact that he was buried? Wasn't he found in a wooded area behind the home?

 

[onthecounter]

She wanted him to be near his family, and somewhere she could visit him in the future without causing suspicion?

That was my first thought when I heard that he'd been found there. That if it was an accidental death, and she panicked, then she wanted him buried as nicely as possible, and not alone.

I mean, its not as if she dumped him in a rubbish bin, or tossed his body into the sea never to be found. She has made effort to take him there, somewhere familiar to him and somewhere that he's probably played in with his brothers and sisters.

Just MOO.

I think that to assist in dumping the body of a child in the woods, and to come up with an elaborate story, knowing that you will be drawing the attention of the media etc, something very bad must have happened to that child that can't be explained away as an accident. I'm not saying that the mother did this bad thing, only that something incredibly bad must have happened to him for subsequent sequence of events to take place. MOO

 

[Inge Jones]

Giving the suspect bail so she can rest doesn't make any sense to me. She killed her defenceless little boy. Prison is where she belongs.

I did make it clear this particular part of the comment was in relation to making it fairer on the innocent. A lot of people who are detained and subsequently released on police bail never do go on to be charged. That way the police can bring in several people who may be all initial suspects, and deal with them one at a time - like in the case of Tia Sharpe. They arrested three, allowed out two on bail, dealt with the main suspect (who turned out to be the killer) then brought one more back to be charged with wasting police time, and the third one was released without charge.

 

[kaos]

Do female killers revisit 'graves'? I know it's something that male killers do but that's more to do with revisiting their crimes rather than mourning their victims.

The area where the body was found doesn't look easy to get to either and looks like quite a high fence to get a body over. Even though RK looks tall, she also looks quite slight.