UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #16

[katydid23]

I've personally never understood why changing your mind is seen as a bad thing - after all, we all need to keep an open mind, don't we? It's neither good nor bad. It just depends on why you change. If it's based on new evidence, or someone puts forward an idea/theory which you hadn't thought of but which in your judgement makes perfect sense, then surely you ought to re-think your opinion.

I completely agree. I'd hope we all are open to new ideas and theories when given a new outlook or new data.

I think Meyers is trying to spin it like the experts were hand fed a narrative by the prosecutors, and that's why they changed their original conclusions/reports.

 

[marynnu]

As we say in my country
"Only cows don't change their minds"

Mooooing

We say pigheaded!

 

[marynnu]

I completely agree. I'd hope we all are open to new ideas and theories when given a new idea or theory.

I think Meyers is trying to spin it like the experts were hand fed a narrative by the prosecutors, and that's why they changed their original conclusions/reports.

Exactly. But that's his job isn't it? Remind me to book him if I'm ever charged with murder.

 

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue


Ms Letby's defence lawyer, Ben Myers KC, is now questioning the doctor. He points out that the medic arrived on neonatal unit at 09:17 (Child Q crashed just after 9am). Myers says 'a fair amount of activity had happened already at that point', the doctor agrees

He also agrees that Child Q had a 'rapid' recovery from the collapse.

Mr Myers has just asked the doctor to explain to the court, in simple terms, what NEC is and what impact it has on babies

 

[Dotta]

Dbm

 

[ColourPurple]

I don't think everyone believes it wrong to kill people, they just know it's illegal! JMO.

Ok maybe I should've said morally wrong? But then that's gonna depends on people's moral. How about "most people" know?

 

[katydid23]

Exactly. But that's his job isn't it? Remind me to book him if I'm ever charged with murder.

My Dad was a defense attorney. One of his favourite things was when a judge or prosecutor would call his office and ask him to represent one of their family members. lol

They really are respectful of each other and are civil and friendly when not in court as adversaries.

It is Meyer's job to make the prosecutors look shady. But I think it is better if he can attack the medical evidence rather than accuse them of corruption or dishonesty. Although sometimes that's all you got.

 

[marynnu]

Ok maybe I should've said morally wrong? But then that's gonna depends on people's moral. How about "most people" know?

That'll do!

 

[ColourPurple]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue


His notes from that morning state 'presumed sepsis with secondary jaundice' for the cause of Child Q's collapse

Child Q made a reasonable recovery through the day, but by 19:20 he was described as 'looking tired' and the doctor took the decision to intubate him and place on a ventilator

The following day, Child Q's gases were unsatisfactory and it was suspected that he had necrotising enterocolitis (a serious condition that can affect newborns). He was transferred to Alder Hey where he quickly stabilised - his breathing tube was removed on 27 June

I'd like to know if it was it LL who called Dr A again at 7.20pm to intubate Baby Q. Time wise it sounds like it may have been just before her shift ended.

 

[katydid23]

I'd like to know if it was it LL who called Dr A again at 7.20pm to intubate Baby Q. Time wise it sounds like it may have been just before her shift ended.

OHHHH you may be right---I am about to post the answer to your question in less than a minute maybe

 

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue


Mr Myers is taking the doctor over messages he sent to Ms Letby in late June/early July in regards to Child O - one of the triplet brothers who died. The court has previously heard that the boy was found with an 'impact' injury to his liver in post-mortem

In the messages, the doctor tells Ms Letby that another doctor on the unit was concerned that Child O's liver injury 'may have been caused by her chest compressions'

He says in those messages to Ms Letby that he spent '20mins in a cubicle going over everything' with the doctor, he says 'CPR was all at fifth rib space between the nipples'

But he says to Mr Myers that he does not have any independent recollection of that resuscitation and that he was managing the airway during it

The defence have previously argued that the liver injury sustained by Child O was a result of CPR - this is something that was rejected by expert pathologist Dr Andreas Marnerides, who reviewed the case, last week

 

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue


Mr Myers is taking the doctor over messages he sent to Ms Letby in late June/early July in regards to Child O - one of the triplet brothers who died. The court has previously heard that the boy was found with an 'impact' injury to his liver in post-mortem

In the messages, the doctor tells Ms Letby that another doctor on the unit was concerned that Child O's liver injury 'may have been caused by her chest compressions'

He says in those messages to Ms Letby that he spent '20mins in a cubicle going over everything' with the doctor, he says 'CPR was all at fifth rib space between the nipples'

But he says to Mr Myers that he does not have any independent recollection of that resuscitation and that he was managing the airway during it

The defence have previously argued that the liver injury sustained by Child O was a result of CPR - this is something that was rejected by expert pathologist Dr Andreas Marnerides, who reviewed the case, last week

Were there other doctors texting LL or is this Dr Choc that is testifying now about his texts with her from June/July?

 

[ColourPurple]

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue


Mr Myers is taking the doctor over messages he sent to Ms Letby in late June/early July in regards to Child O - one of the triplet brothers who died. The court has previously heard that the boy was found with an 'impact' injury to his liver in post-mortem

In the messages, the doctor tells Ms Letby that another doctor on the unit was concerned that Child O's liver injury 'may have been caused by her chest compressions'

He says in those messages to Ms Letby that he spent '20mins in a cubicle going over everything' with the doctor, he says 'CPR was all at fifth rib space between the nipples'

But he says to Mr Myers that he does not have any independent recollection of that resuscitation and that he was managing the airway during it

The defence have previously argued that the liver injury sustained by Child O was a result of CPR - this is something that was rejected by expert pathologist Dr Andreas Marnerides, who reviewed the case, last week

By LL's chest comperessions or a lady doctor's chest compressions? Sounds like the latter.

Anyone know if 'CPR was all at fifth rib space between the nipples' is the correct way to do it?

 

[ColourPurple]

Were there other doctors texting LL or is this Dr Choc that is testifying now about his texts with her from June/July?

I read it to be his texts to LL in June/July not another doctors.

 

[katydid23]

OKAY----NOW we know why Meyers was so obsessed with the idea that CPR caused the liver injuries. He found a tweet, allegedly, in which a doctor theorised that LL may have accidentally caused the liver injury in Baby O during CPR.

I wonder if this was a tweet from Dr Choc or is another doctor also messaging her?

@MrDanDonoghue


Mr Myers is taking the doctor over messages he sent to Ms Letby in late June/early July in regards to Child O - one of the triplet brothers who died. The court has previously heard that the boy was found with an 'impact' injury to his liver in post-mortem

In the messages, the doctor tells Ms Letby that another doctor on the unit was concerned that Child O's liver injury 'may have been caused by her chest compressions'

He says in those messages to Ms Letby that he spent '20mins in a cubicle going over everything' with the doctor, he says 'CPR was all at fifth rib space between the nipples'

 

[ColourPurple]

OKAY----NOW we know why Meyers was so obsessed with the idea that CPR caused the liver injuries. He found a tweet, allegedly, in which a doctor theorised that LL may have accidentally caused the liver injury in Baby O during CPR.

I wonder if this was a tweet from Dr Choc or is another doctor also messaging her?

@MrDanDonoghue


Mr Myers is taking the doctor over messages he sent to Ms Letby in late June/early July in regards to Child O - one of the triplet brothers who died. The court has previously heard that the boy was found with an 'impact' injury to his liver in post-mortem

In the messages, the doctor tells Ms Letby that another doctor on the unit was concerned that Child O's liver injury 'may have been caused by her chest compressions'

He says in those messages to Ms Letby that he spent '20mins in a cubicle going over everything' with the doctor, he says 'CPR was all at fifth rib space between the nipples'

In the messages, the doctor tells Ms Letby that another doctor on the unit was concerned that Child O's liver injury 'may have been caused by her chest compressions'

He says in those messages to Ms Letby that he spent '20mins in a cubicle going over everything' with the doctor, he says 'CPR was all at fifth rib space between the nipples'

I think the "her" is the other doctor, if she's female. Could be wrong, the writing doesn't make it clear.

 

[katydid23]

I read it to be his texts to LL in June/July not another doctors.

OH, I thought it was Meyers taking 'them' through messages sent to LL by the doctor on the witness stand? Am I misunderstanding it?

"Mr Myers is taking the doctor over messages he sent to Ms Letby in late June/early July in regards to Child O -"

So what doctor would Meyers be taking through the messages other than the doctor on the stand right now?




Mr Myers is taking the doctor over messages he sent to Ms Letby in late June/early July in regards to Child O - one of the triplet brothers who died. The court has previously heard that the boy was found with an 'impact' injury to his liver in post-mortem

In the messages, the doctor tells Ms Letby that another doctor on the unit was concerned that Child O's liver injury 'may have been caused by her chest compressions
- one of the triplet brothers who died. The court has previously heard that the boy was found with an 'impact' injury to his liver in post-mortem

In the messages, the doctor tells Ms Letby that another doctor on the unit was concerned that Child O's liver injury 'may have been caused by her chest compressions

 

[marynnu]

In the messages, the doctor tells Ms Letby that another doctor on the unit was concerned that Child O's liver injury 'may have been caused by her chest compressions'

He says in those messages to Ms Letby that he spent '20mins in a cubicle going over everything' with the doctor, he says 'CPR was all at fifth rib space between the nipples'

I think the "her" is the other doctor, if she's female. Could be wrong, the writing doesn't make it clear.

I read it as LL! But let's see. Is all this new information? I don't recall seeing it before.

 

[ColourPurple]

OH, I thought it was Meyers taking 'them' through messages sent to LL by the doctor on the witness stand? Am I misunderstanding it?

"Mr Myers is taking the doctor over messages he sent to Ms Letby in late June/early July in regards to Child O -"

So what doctor would Meyers be taking through the messages other than the doctor on the stand right now?

I agree. I think its Myer's taking Dr A through the texts he sent to LL . Unless Myers also sent LL texts in June/July lol.

 

[katydid23]

In the messages, the doctor tells Ms Letby that another doctor on the unit was concerned that Child O's liver injury 'may have been caused by her chest compressions'

He says in those messages to Ms Letby that he spent '20mins in a cubicle going over everything' with the doctor, he says 'CPR was all at fifth rib space between the nipples'

I think the "her" is the other doctor, if she's female. Could be wrong, the writing doesn't make it clear.

Yes, there are two doctors. But Meyers seems to be taking them through the messages that the doctor who is now testifying, sent to LL back in June/July.

And he is apparently the doctor that arrived when Q first collapsed about 9:10 am.

I read it to be his texts to LL in June/July not another doctors.

who do you mean by 'his' ? Do you mean Meyer's messages or the doctor on the stands messages to her?