UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #19

[esther43]

Re taking the stand

My opinion only

Well, what has she got to lose really?

She was reported to be "softly spoken" and "nice".
She seems to be well spoken, she is educated and intelligent.

Add to this her obvious confidence while talking about medical matters using medical jargon.

For me the evidence looks damning.

And if ever I was to be swayed in MY opinion it would ONLY be listening to HER.

Besides, I respect courageous people, and it takes courage to stand and defend oneself in front of all - spectators and media.

Do it LL!
For yourself and your poor parents.

I will listen to you attentively.
With all posters here on WS.

JMO

I agree about her having nothing to loose. The agreed extracts from interviews were incriminating and to state the obvious, it will be hard to top the medical experts. Jmo

 

[Marantz4250b]

There is less than a zero chance of the CPS talking to the media let alone People.
Only the legal teams will know.

Indeed. No way this report is true as far as the CPS advising them of developments.

 

[notsure]

Taking those sheets home might have been a symptom of some kind of impulse-control disorder, not unlike kleptomania, in which the person steals things just for the gratification of having stolen something, rather than for any kind of personal gain.

 

[Parker Knoll]

I am probably wrong but I think the handover sheets in the shredder box were related to babies in this case.

 

[Becky53]

Incoming ramblings about handover sheets..

In my opinion, it’s quite clear she was choosing to keep the handover notes, and systematically brought them home from each shift. There have been several instances where she’s had an air of entitlement about her (eg doing things she’s been told by superiors not to). So with the handover notes, she knows she shouldn’t keep them, she may even report someone else for doing it, but for some reason she feels like she is above the rules and somehow justifies to herself that it’s ok for her to have them. Same with her WhatsApp messaging about patients.

I don’t find the Ibiza bag particularly suspicious, given that they contained her last few handover notes before she was taken off the unit, and she would likely have had an Ibiza bag lying around at that time. To me it feels like she just gathered up whatever was lying on a table that week and shoved it in a bag, where it remained.

The box marked “keep”, I’d need to know more about. Because it contains sheets which don’t appear just now to have any relevance. It feels to me like some kind of residual papers in a box that got caught up in some stuff/papers which was genuinely to be kept. Perhaps stuff that was being returned to her parents during her move. Eg hi Lucy there were a few bits of paper from work in that box, I’ve left it in your cupboard.

I’d like to know whether the other handover notes found in the Morrisons bag related to families she was regularly searching for on FB. That stuff does feel like it’s been set aside, compared to the 200 other handover notes. Is it so she can remember the names of the families she’s interested in for future reference?

On the FB searching more generally, I don’t get the impression she’s a grief vampire, I think it’s another extension of her seeking validation and praise. For example, if she looks up a child she cared for on their birthday, or Christmas, she might be hoping to see something like “we are so grateful to the nurses…”. Or, if it’s a baby that passed away, maybe she’s looking for a photo of the memory box, or a photo she took of the baby, or some other thing that somehow validates she’s had a lasting impact.

JMO. Irrespective of guilt.

Ben Myers did say she looked up families on FB of children not on the indictment so her seeking validation and praise does have a ring of truth to it. We’ve no idea when she searched these other children though or how often compared to the ones she’s charged with.

eta link and say my mistake as it wasn’t BM but Ms Hocknell

11:10am

Ms Hocknell is asked by the defence about Letby's Facebook searches.
She is asked whether Letby searched on Facebook for the parents of children other than those listed in the charges.
Ms Hocknell confirms that is the case. "There are a lot of searches for different people."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, October 19

THE prosecution in the trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 more at the Countess of Chester Hospital…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[ShireChe]

At the start of the trial, when talking about babies A and B the prosecution said:

""We say that there is no plausible alternative to an air injection [air embolus]. The fact that it happened in 2 cases just over 24 hours apart shows that these were no accidents.

"Lucy Letby was the only person present [with Child A] at the time he collapsed...and was in the room when the same happened to [Child B].

We also say that you are entitled to look at the evidence of what happened to [Child A and B] in the context of one, what Lucy Letby did to other children and two, most starkly, her having poisoned [two other children] with insulin."



As the judge didn't jump up and correct the prosecution, I'm assuming that it's correct

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

I totally see your point; however, if your daughter's solicitor said "...look, we know how you feel but you really need to say absolutely nothing because if you do it might mess up her defence...", then what do you do?

The parents are doing 100% the right thing at this point. It would be a terrible idea to give the press access to them. Look what happened in the Nicola Bulley case.

Depending on the verdict, then after the case would be the right time to shout about her innocence if that's what they believe

 

[Dotta]

Taking those sheets home might have been a symptom of some kind of impulse-control disorder, not unlike kleptomania, in which the person steals things just for the gratification of having stolen something, rather than for any kind of personal gain.

So
Syringes, bandages, pills, etc.

Was her (alleged) kleptomania for handover sheets only?


JMO

 

[ShireChe]

There is less than a zero chance of the CPS talking to the media let alone People.
Only the legal teams will know.

Whether people know or not, I have no idea, but I'm not sure this is true. I think the media will be tipped off prior to her appearing. The court will need to be prepared for a mass increase in media attention

 

[Becky53]

I am probably wrong but I think the handover sheets in the shredder box were related to babies in this case.

The odd thing is that they didn’t relate to babies in this case.


2:46pm

A floorplan of Letby's parents' home is shown to the court.
A photo of Lucy Letby's bedroom at the Hereford address is shown to the court.
A photo is shown inside Letby's wardrobe, and Mr Astbury asks about the 'Asda five-sheet strip cut paper shredder' - there was no shredder in the box, but inside were five nursing handover sheets, not related to the indictment.
Handwriting on the box says 'keep'.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, April 17

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Dotta]

Whether people know or not, I have no idea, but I'm not sure this is true. I think the media will be tipped off prior to her appearing. The court will need to be prepared for a mass increase in media attention

Exactly!

Who if not journalists "keep their ears to the ground"??

 

[Dotta]

The odd thing is that they didn’t relate to babies in this case.


2:46pm

A floorplan of Letby's parents' home is shown to the court.
A photo of Lucy Letby's bedroom at the Hereford address is shown to the court.
A photo is shown inside Letby's wardrobe, and Mr Astbury asks about the 'Asda five-sheet strip cut paper shredder' - there was no shredder in the box, but inside were five nursing handover sheets, not related to the indictment.
Handwriting on the box says 'keep'.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, April 17

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

It sounds ominous
I hope THESE kids are NOT brain damaged.

JMO

 

[esther43]

Ben Myers did say she looked up families on FB of children not on the indictment so her seeking validation and praise does have a ring of truth to it. We’ve no idea when she searched these other children though or how often compared to the ones she’s charged with.

eta link and say my mistake as it wasn’t BM but Ms Hocknell

11:10am

Ms Hocknell is asked by the defence about Letby's Facebook searches.
She is asked whether Letby searched on Facebook for the parents of children other than those listed in the charges.
Ms Hocknell confirms that is the case. "There are a lot of searches for different people."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, October 19

THE prosecution in the trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 more at the Countess of Chester Hospital…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

If looking at FB searches alone in isolation, then yes it could be a 'feel good' exercise but put into context with handover sheets and excessive text messaging, it comes off as a bit neurotic.
Also think a Matron of the unit would strongly prefer staff members to use their time off for R&R rather than be 'living the drama' 24/7

 

[esther43]

So
Syringes, bandages, pills, etc.

Was her (alleged) kleptomania for handover sheets only?


JMO

No, episodes are triggered by Facebook searches and text messages to colleagues, I think it has something to do with the way the neuropathways are activated when she has a phone in her hand.

 

[Lincoln34]

I'm not building my hopes up either. I think they've just seen the other reports saying that she may give evidence, (which has always been a possibility) and ran with it. They had nothing to lose as the headline will get them clicks and there's a 50/50 chance of them being right.

Well the prosecution has concluded, so she has heard the evidence against her and that has been tested to a degree in court. Might it be possible that there is a change of plea on Tuesday following a weekend’s reflection and conference with counsel?

 

[Tortoise]

Although the bulk of the handover sheets don't relate to babies in the case, and there are many searches on Facebook for parents of babies unrelated to the charges, if she is guilty I don't think it can be said that all the handover sheets and Facebook searches are unrelated to the case. She may have planned and researched before the incidents, using information on the handover sheets, and she might have targeted babies with certain medical histories, or even certain designated nurses, if guilty.

For instance -

Ashleigh Hudson who was doing her ICU training, was designated nurse for baby I for two of her collapses and baby I's death, which were spread out over the period 30th Sep to 23rd Oct.

Mary Griffith was on duty for twins A&B, designated nurse for twins L&M, on shift for a total of seven events, including the deaths of A and P.

Melanie Taylor, who was band 6 and sometimes shift-leader, was on duty for a total of seven events, including the deaths of A, C, I and O.

JMO

 

[crystalline]

I'm assuming the confidential waste where the hand over sheets should have been posted is one of those whereby they are collected and incinerated off site - or even shredded on site either way. Could it be....and these bins I know from previous working environment if someone is suspected of something security management can actually access them via a key....could it be that she didn't want to take the risk of them being retrieved? I'm not saying she is guilty by the way, but just food for thought.

Edited to include the sentence 'or even shredded on site either way'

 

[Kemug]

I had a vague idea that the reason for taking all this stuff home could have been so that she could somehow alter the records, or keep them to prove her innocence should she ever be accused of murder, etc. Not sure how that would work though.

 

[crystalline]

I had a vague idea that the reason for taking all this stuff home could have been so that she could somehow alter the records, or keep them to prove her innocence should she ever be accused of murder, etc. Not sure how that would work though.

Hmm interesting...either suggestion, suggests she knew something wasn't right doesn't it. What ever direction that something is...

 

[marynnu]

It snowed in June once in the UK in 1975 …. I was 7 and on holiday.
My parents did not believe me until they saw it for themselves

I remember that!

 

[crystalline]

I remember that!

Before my time 'Just'