UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #21

[Marantz4250b]

Lol were we still in the eu at this time? I know if you did more than the 40 hr week you had to sign a waiver.

I meant a legally mandated limit on safety grounds. Like an HGV driver who must take a break after sonmany hours.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I meant a legally mandated limit on safety grounds. Like an HGV driver who must take a break after sonmany hours.

Must do.clinical profession,work too much =get tired= standards fall = people at risk.

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

Could Ms Letby have been working 20 out of 30 days?
Assuming her regular shifts would have been 3 x 12.5 hrs per week, this would equate to approximately 12 days per month.
So, are we attributing 8 days, on average, per month, to overtime? Does this sound plausible to anyone in the medical profession?

 

[Sweeper2000]

The guidelines almost a mirror of the eu laws.


You cannot be forced to work over 48 hours a week over a standard reference period of 17 weeks.

You can opt out of the 48 hour weekly limit if you agree this with your employer in writing.

It is possible to work a 12 hour night shift as long as the average length of a night shift does not exceed eight hours in a 24 hour period, when measured over a standard reference period of 17 weeks.

Working time and breaks | Advice guides | Royal College of Nursing

Advice guide for RCN members on working time, including Working Time Regulations, agency work, breaks, compensatory rest, health assessments and on-call work.

www.rcn.org.uk

 

[Sweeper2000]

Could Ms Letby have been working 20 out of 30 days?
Assuming her regular shifts would have been 3 x 12.5 hrs per week, this would equate to approximately 12 days per month.
So, are we attributing 8 days, on average, per month, to overtime? Does this sound plausible to anyone in the medical profession?

Struggling to find the quote But ll Was put on four days rather than four nights. Said she preferred it.

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

The guidelines almost a mirror of the eu laws.


You cannot be forced to work over 48 hours a week over a standard reference period of 17 weeks.

You can opt out of the 48 hour weekly limit if you agree this with your employer in writing.

It is possible to work a 12 hour night shift as long as the average length of a night shift does not exceed eight hours in a 24 hour period, when measured over a standard reference period of 17 weeks.

Working time and breaks | Advice guides | Royal College of Nursing

Advice guide for RCN members on working time, including Working Time Regulations, agency work, breaks, compensatory rest, health assessments and on-call work.

www.rcn.org.uk

"Cannot be forced", "can opt out".. so presumably CAN OPT IN, then?

The question on the bottom line remains, can Ms Letby have worked 257+ shifts in approximately 13 months?

Because if not, the insinuation would be that the accused was, allegedly, taking home handover notes that were not only confidential, but were never supposed to be in her possession in the first place.

JMO

 

[JosieJo]

Nurses work 12.5 hr shifts so 13 shifts per 4 week period

From what I remember from previous testimony although she did extra shifts she didn't do an excessive number.
Some nurses may do 1 extra shift per week ..but that's unusual..commonly a nurse who enjoyed extra shifts on average might do 3 a month

 

[JosieJo]

Dbm

 

[Sweeper2000]

Your Opted in By default unless one opts out.

the math says four days a week is 255 days. Plus overtime. So could accrue 257 ho sheet for a years worth of shifts.

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

Your Opted in By default unless one opts out.

the math says four days a week is 255 days. Plus overtime. So could accrue 257 ho sheet for a years worth of shifts.

4 days a week, taking into account annual leave, still seems high considering the regular shifts would have been 12.5 hours long.

The point of all of this is, either Ms Letby allegedly took home handover notes from every single shift during that period, or she was, allegedly, taking home handover notes that were not even supposed to be in her possession.

Either way it is concerning, and as has been alluded to by others on this foum, cannot possibly have been the result of genuine mistakes/lapses in concentration etc. It would absolutely had to have been intentional.

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

The work pattern is 4 days on 4 days off So it’s not exactly every week. 4 x 12.5 = 50 hr work Hours every 8 days.

I don’t think she has been stealing others handovers otherwise it would have been mentioned. I don’t even know about the timespan between them anymore.

 

[ColourPurple]

Struggling to find the quote But ll Was put on four days rather than four nights. Said she preferred it.

Different quote but there's this in April:

On a group WhatsApp post to friends just before 2pm on the same shift, she wrote: “Sorry guys, mad busy four days in work. U can come to mine if you want to. Just need to unpack first.


I thought there had been mention of her working five days in a row around June 2016 too but can't find that. Can only find Doc Choc around that time saying "I'd be surprised if you didnt sleep well after so many long days zzz.""

Lucy Letby: nurse won Grand National bet on day of attempted baby murders, court told

Letby texted friends about winnings on same day she allegedly tried to kill twin boys in incubator, jury hears

www.theguardian.com

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2023-03-03/lucy-letby-told-colleague-she-wanted-to-cry-after-baby-collapsed-trial-hears

 

[Marantz4250b]

Nurses work 12.5 hr shifts so 13 shifts per 4 week period

From what I remember from previous testimony although she did extra shifts she didn't do an excessive number.
Some nurses may do 1 extra shift per week ..but that's unusual..commonly a nurse who enjoyed extra shifts on average might do 3 a month

So, based on those figures, 257 hand-over sheets would seem to be essentially impossible to acquire over a 13 month period unless she was taking other people's. That in itself seems highly unlikely given that they are basically identical to each other.

 

[ColourPurple]

The work pattern is 4 days on 4 days off So it’s not exactly every week. 4 x 12.5 = 50 hr work Hours every 8 days.

I don’t think she has been stealing others handovers otherwise it would have been mentioned. I don’t even know about the timespan between them anymore.

Might even be 4 on 3 off.

 

[marynnu]

Might even be 4 on 3 off.

There will be no pattern at all!

 

[Sweeper2000]

Different quote but there's this in April:

On a group WhatsApp post to friends just before 2pm on the same shift, she wrote: “Sorry guys, mad busy four days in work. U can come to mine if you want to. Just need to unpack first.


I thought there had been mention of her working five days in a row around June 2016 too but can't find that. Can only find Doc Choc around that time saying "I'd be surprised if you didnt sleep well after so many long days zzz.""

Lucy Letby: nurse won Grand National bet on day of attempted baby murders, court told

Letby texted friends about winnings on same day she allegedly tried to kill twin boys in incubator, jury hears

www.theguardian.com

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2023-03-03/lucy-letby-told-colleague-she-wanted-to-cry-after-baby-collapsed-trial-hears

I’m doing my best to find the exact quote but I distinctly remember her saying she preferred doing four days to four nights. Quote will be around the time on the move to day shifts but I can’t remember when that was.

I think august 2015 approx.

 

[ColourPurple]

So, based on those figures, 257 hand-over sheets would seem to be essentially impossible to acquire over a 13 month period unless she was taking other people's. That in itself seems highly unlikely given that they are basically identical to each other.

8 june 2015- 28 June 2016= 387 days so even working 4 on 4 off would accumulate 193 . Take some off for holiday (but then add on a few days each month for overtime mutiplied by 13)...I think 257 is achievable.

If she was going to take other people's handover sheets it would make more sense to take the ones people used on the shift before her, before handing over to her, as they would have details from the shift before that (ie two shifts before hers).

 

[Tortoise]

Different quote but there's this in April:

On a group WhatsApp post to friends just before 2pm on the same shift, she wrote: “Sorry guys, mad busy four days in work. U can come to mine if you want to. Just need to unpack first.


I thought there had been mention of her working five days in a row around June 2016 too but can't find that. Can only find Doc Choc around that time saying "I'd be surprised if you didnt sleep well after so many long days zzz.""

Lucy Letby: nurse won Grand National bet on day of attempted baby murders, court told

Letby texted friends about winnings on same day she allegedly tried to kill twin boys in incubator, jury hears

www.theguardian.com

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2023-03-03/lucy-letby-told-colleague-she-wanted-to-cry-after-baby-collapsed-trial-hears

baby N -

Doctor A: Am I right in thinking you’ll have done six long-days in the last eight? No wonder you’re tired.

LL: Yep, six in eight. My own doing though as holiday is during days off rather than annual leave.

--

babies L/M

SE: "it'll feel more homely once you've sorted everything out." She also asks about how busy the unit is.
LL: "Unit is busy, no-one particularly unwell just volume and few people off sick. I prefer 4 days to 4 nights. We've got nice mix of babies at the mo really. Shift goes quick anyway!'

quotes from the podcast

 

[ColourPurple]

There will be no pattern at all!

That too lol

 

[JamesMcGillEsquire]

Might be somewhat of a moot point, but 4 days on/4 days off is 4 out of 8, not 4 out of 7.