UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #22

[JosieJo]

Letby says handover documents 'just bits of paper' to her​

Lucy Letby continues to be questioned on the handover sheets found at her home.
Nick Johnson KC moves to the plastic bag of 31 handover sheets found in Letby's bedroom, containing details about babies involved the case.
The documents are dated from July 2014 to June 2016.
Asked to explain the process of how they ended up in the bag after coming home in her uniform, Letby says she empties her pockets before washing her clothes and transfers the documents to the bag she used for work.
"You’re ferrying handover sheets to and from the Countess of Chester, is that what you're saying?"
"I can't say specifically."
Mr Johnson says that must be what Letby is suggesting and she accepts the handover documents were in the bag.
He says: "They're in the bag when police find it, I'm more interested in why you put them in the bag at all."
"I can't recall."
"Can't, or won't?"
"They were just bits of paper to me."
"You're not telling the truth, are you?"
"I am," Letby replies.

Lucy Letby trial latest: Defendant now facing prosecution lawyer after tears in court

The cross-examination of the neonatal nurse, 33, enters its first full day today. Yesterday saw prosecutor Nick Johnson KC ask Letby why she only cries for herself and not the babies she is alleged to have killed. She denied this was the case.

news.sky.com

 

[Marantz4250b]

She wasn't aware she had them? She struggling

She is. She clearly knows she had them. I can accept that she may not know why she had them.

 

[ColourPurple]

10:55am

Mr Johnson says Letby took the sheet for June 23, 2016 home as it had notes of drugs for Child O and Child P.
Letby said there was documentation on there, but cannot be sure what details were on it.
Letby said she took the note home deliberately to bring it back the following day for finishing up writing of medications.
A copy of the handover sheet is circulated to the jury and Letby. Mr Johnson says he is interested in the back, on the medical notes.
Letby describes what is on the note - medication for Child P - caffeine. Nothing was written for Child O. No medications were noted for a third child.
Letby said she had taken it back with the paper towel, which had further details.

Ah 23rd of June. The day Baby O died. So she took home a handover note that day with Caffeine Baby P written on the back, said she kept it to use to take back to the hospital the next day to remind her to write up her notes the next day. Then the next day when she did go back to the hospital Baby P died.

Am I getting this correct?

 

[Tortoise]

11:02am

Mr Johnson asks about other work documents found in Letby's Morrisons work bag, such as a blood gas record for Child M.
NJ: "Were they insignificant?"
Letby says at the time the documents were insignificant, as they went home along with a lot of other documents for babies not on the indictment.
LL: "These have come home with me...not with any intention."
NJ: "You have taken them home."
Letby accepts the wording.

11:04am

Mr Johnson asks if Letby recalls a colleague nurse's evidence for Child M on the blood gas reading.
Mr Johnson says she took it, wrote it on the chart, and disposed of it.
Letby is asked how she got the sheet, if it had been put in the [hospital's] confidential waste bin.
LL: "I can't recall specifically."
NJ: "It was for your little collection, wasn't it?"
LL: "No."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Dcflag]

It was the box the shredder came in - not the collection box part of said shredder.

So for arguments sake, let’s say she brought the shredder for her bank statements like she’s just testified, and isn’t aware she has hundreds of confidential handover sheets in her home. She finds some, and puts them in the empty shredder box and marks them as keep? Instead of.. I don’t know.. shredding them?

 

[JosieJo]

I bet Myers has his head in his hands

 

[Legal]

The shredder is making a big come back!

 

[Tortoise]

They are saying she took paper out of the confidential waste to take home!

 

[ColourPurple]

So for arguments sake, let’s say she brought the shredder for her bank statements like she’s just testified, and isn’t aware she has hundreds of confidential handover sheets in her home. She finds some, and puts them in the empty shredder box and marks them as keep? Instead of.. I don’t know.. shredding them?

The empty shredder box was at her parents though. Not that I think any of her story makes sense

 

[Marantz4250b]

So for arguments sake, let’s say she brought the shredder for her bank statements like she’s just testified, and isn’t aware she has hundreds of confidential handover sheets in her home. She finds some, and puts them in the empty shredder box and marks them as keep? Instead of.. I don’t know.. shredding them?

The shredder box was at her parents, I believe. Shredder at her house.

 

[Cluedoneit]

Mr Johnson asks if Letby recalls a colleague nurse's evidence for Child M on the blood gas reading.
Mr Johnson says she took it, wrote it on the chart, and disposed of it.
Letby is asked how she got the sheet, if it had been put in the [hospital's] confidential waste bin.
LL: "I can't recall specifically."
NJ: "It was for your little colection, wasn't it?"
LL: "No."

So she took a sheet of paper out of the bin and tries to say it’s insignificant to her? Letby, you’ve just caused a problem with the jury in my opinion.

 

[katydid23]

But I also shows she’s not really capable of telling the truth, even in small, more insignificant things. She said under oath yesterday students don’t get handover sheets. She testified yesterday to completely different events regarding dr J that went against even her defence lawyer.

I don’t care who you are, it’s not normal to keep a handover sheet in a memory box that has nothing to do with you except that you worked that shift. Even if it’s your first ever shift, that’s not normal.

It is abnormal, IMO.

And it shows a weird obsession with her job as a nurse. It makes me think of her statements about 'fate' and how it just takes 'a little push to tip some of the babies over'....This line of questioning makes me wonder if she decided to 'play God' with her beloved job as a nurse. She could tip a baby over and then lead the others in the resuscitation attempts---some will live but some will die but she is orchestrating all of it.

 

[Tortoise]

11:07am

Mr Johnson asks why Letby purchased a shredder if she wasn't going to use it - was she on so much money she could make such purchases?
Letby, after saying she is not sure what finance has to do with this, says she used the shredder to shred bank statements.
"Why did you lie about [not having a shredder] in interview?"
Letby said she didn't recall having a shredder, it was not a significant item in her house.
"Like the pieces of paper?"
Letby agrees.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Marantz4250b]

They are saying she took paper out of the confidential waste to take home!

Is that even possible? Are confidential waste boxes not locked so you can't do that?

 

[ShireChe]

Like I was saying the other day. I think there is something deeper, psychologically, going on with her. She kept the very first handover sheet she was ever given and I think we can assume she wasn't murdering or otherwise harming babies right from her first day.

IMO, she either doesn't know why she does this or can't face up to whatever condition is making her do it. Her answers are just like someone I know who has a similar issue and gives ridiculous answers to very straightforward questions on a certain subject.

I share the same opinion on this. And it doesn't mean she isn't also guilty, but I don't think the handover sheets are a specific part. I.e I don't think she was specifically using the sheets as mementos, trophies or research, but It may be a shared deeper part of her psychology.

But quite frankly it's going to play incredibly bad with the jury and they will struggle to look past it, which is why the prosecution are making such a point of it

 

[Dcflag]

RSBM



11:04am

Mr Johnson asks if Letby recalls a colleague nurse's evidence for Child M on the blood gas reading.
Mr Johnson says she took it, wrote it on the chart, and disposed of it.
Letby is asked how she got the sheet, if it had been put in the [hospital's] confidential waste bin.
LL: "I can't recall specifically."
NJ: "It was for your little collection, wasn't it?"
LL: "No."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Dear lord.. I’ll be interested to see what the defence rebuttal is because at the moment, Johnson seems to be dropping bombshell after bombshell highlighting every inconsistency.

 

[Dcflag]

The shredder box was at her parents, I believe. Shredder at her house.

But at the point of putting the papers in that empty box, she knew she had the shredder, and the sheets. Yet still made no move to destroy them properly, with a shredder she was aware of owning.

 

[Jazmania]

Who was saying Johnson wasn't doing a good job? 25 minutes of cross-examining her and he has totally destroyed her credibility. If she can't tell the truth about hand out notes, why should we believe her version of events as opposed to the mother of baby E or Dr J?

 

[Marantz4250b]

But at the point of putting the papers in that empty box, she knew she had the shredder, and the sheets. Yet still made no move to destroy them properly, with a shredder she was aware of owning.

Maybe those sheets were just randomly lying around her room at her parents place and her mum thought they looked important so put them in a box marked "keep"?

 

[Dcflag]

I share the same opinion on this. And it doesn't mean she isn't also guilty, but I don't think the handover sheets are a specific part. I.e I don't think she was specifically using the sheets as mementos, trophies or research, but It may be a shared deeper part of her psychology.

But quite frankly it's going to play incredibly bad with the jury and they will struggle to look past it, which is why the prosecution are making such a point of it

The handover sheet specifically in a memory box however, really lends credibility to the fact that she is capable of keeping such a document specifically as a memento. That one handover sheet was taken home intentionally to keep. So it’s not necessarily outside the realms of possibility that she’s taken others specifically to keep.

A question for the medical people here; is it quite common for people to document significant events in a diary or similar after the fact as LL has done with the baby’s initials etc? Would there be any reason for a nurse to need to record anything like that?