UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #22

[Tortoise]

I'll do Chester Standard updates, just so we don't duplicate here

 

[Marantz4250b]

10:39am

Mr Johnson asks if Lucy Letby wishes to change any of her answers from yesterday. Letby: "No."
Mr Johnson asks if handover sheets were handed out to student nurses.
Letby said she would have handover sheets as a student nurse at some placements, but in the neonatal unit she cannot recall specifically. She tells the court it was not standard practice at the neonatal unit to hand out handover sheets to student nurses "for the time we are talking about".
Mr Johnson says one of the handover sheets, dated June 1, 2010, was in a keep-sake box with roses on the box, when Letby was a student nurse [Letby having started full-time employment at the hospital on January 2, 2012]. Letby says she cannot recall it.
Mr Johnson asks what is "unusual" about the handover sheet, and how it differs from the others.
Letby is unsure what Mr Johnson means.
Mr Johnson: "It is in pristine condition."
Letby: "It's the original?"
Mr Johnson: "Yes."
Letby: "Ok."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

One might surmise that this is her very first sheet from the first shift she ever did as a student?

 

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue



Ms Letby says 'no'. Mr Johnson then brings discussion to handover sheets, he asks her when she was a student at the Countess of Chester if she was given handover sheets - she says 'yes' on some placements

Mr Johnson is focusing his questioning on the 250 plus handover sheets that were found in Ms Letby's home when police searched. One sheet is from 1 June 2010. Mr Johnson says this dates to Ms Letby's first day on the neonatal unit (as part of a student placement)



Mr Johnson says this was found in a keepsake box at Ms Letby's home. Ms Letby says she 'can't recall' what was in that box. Mr Johnson says the note was in 'pristine' condition and says 'you knew where you were keeping these handover notes didn't you', Ms Lebty says 'no'

Mr Johnson is now asking Ms Letby about an exchange she had with her defence lawyer Ben Myers KC regarding a handover sheet for the triplet brothers Child O and P (who Ms Letby is alleged to have murdered on successive days in June 2016)


Ms Letby told her defence lawyer she took a sheet home as she needed to write up medications the next day. Mr Johnson has pulled up the sheet, on it is written 'caffeine' for Child P - no other medications are on the sheet

Mr Johnson says 'your evidence yesterday was you took that home because it had caffeine written on it and brought it in next day to help remind you of caffeine', Ms Letby says she did not say this. She says she also took a paper towel with medicines on it home

 

[Jazmania]

One might surmise that this is her very first sheet from the first shift she ever did as a student?

Maybe. Clearly meant a lot to her whatever it was. How does this fit in with her 'I accidentally took notes home and never thought about them or looked at them' argument though?

 

[ColourPurple]

One might surmise that this is her very first sheet from the first shift she ever did as a student?

That would be weird but I suppose somebody might want to keep just that one sheet. As long as it's just that and not something like the handover sheet from the first death she ever witnessed.

JMO

 

[Legal]

Didn't she say yesterday under oath that students were not given handover sheets?

 

[Tortoise]

10:55am

Mr Johnson says Letby took the sheet for June 23, 2016 home as it had notes of drugs for Child O and Child P.
Letby said there was documentation on there, but cannot be sure what details were on it.
Letby said she took the note home deliberately to bring it back the following day for finishing up writing of medications.
A copy of the handover sheet is circulated to the jury and Letby. Mr Johnson says he is interested in the back, on the medical notes.
Letby describes what is on the note - medication for Child P - caffeine. Nothing was written for Child O. No medications were noted for a third child.
Letby said she had taken it back with the paper towel, which had further details.
Letby is asked when the Morrisons work bag was placed under her bed. Letby says she cannot recall the Ibiza bag became her new bag after her trip to Ibiza around June 2016.
Letby is asked how the handover sheets ended up in her bag. She says after emptying her pockets, the sheets would end up in her work bag.
Nicholas Johnson: "You're ferrying work sheets to and from work."
Letby: "I can't say definitively."
NJ: "They must have been...why put them in that bag at all?"
LL: "I can't recall."
NJ: "Can't or won't?"
LL: "They were just bits of paper to me."
Letby says she accepts pieces of paper - "it's the paper I accumulate, not the content."
Letby says she has difficulty throwing things away.
NJ: "Is that why you bought a shredder?"
LL: "I bought a shredder for certain documents when I bought the house...predominantly bank statements."
NJ: "Why not the handover sheets?"
LL: "I wasn't aware I had them."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Legal]

That would be weird but I suppose somebody might want to keep just that one sheet. As long as it's just that and not something like the handover sheet from the first death she ever witnessed.

JMO

I think it's really weird to take a medical document belonging to someone else and put it in a keepsake box with flowers on like a love letter (and even that when you're not a teenager!).

 

[JosieJo]

7m ago10:49

Prosecutor says Letby 'not prepared to tell truth' about handover sheets at her home​

Nick Johnson KC gives Lucy Letby the opportunity to modify any of her answers from his questioning yesterday - she doesn't.
He then moves to ask Letby about her statement to the jury that student nurses are not given handover sheets.
"That's right," she says.
She later says she "can't recall specifically" whether she was given a handover sheet from the neonatal unit at Countess of Chester Hospital during her time as a student.
"You know where I'm going, don't you," Mr Johnson says.
He puts to Letby that a handover sheet from June 2010 - while she was in training to become a children's nurse - was found at her house during a police search after her arrest in 2018.
"Are you doing your best to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?"
"Yes."
Asked where the June 2010 handover sheet was found, she says: "No idea".
"Did you have a keepsake box with roses on it at your house?" Mr Johnson asks.
"Yes."
"What was in that keepsake box?"
"I can't recall from memory."
Mr Johnson asks if one of the things in the box was the 2010 handover sheet, and the defendant replies she has "no recollection" and can't recall this specific document.
The prosecutor notes it is unusual as there's no handwriting on it and it's in "pristine condition".
"You have not been prepared to tell the truth about these handover sheets, have you?" Mr Johnson asks.
"The truth is what I've told you," Letby says

Lucy Letby trial latest: Defendant now facing prosecution lawyer after tears in court

The cross-examination of the neonatal nurse, 33, enters its first full day today. Yesterday saw prosecutor Nick Johnson KC ask Letby why she only cries for herself and not the babies she is alleged to have killed. She denied this was the case.

news.sky.com

 

[Marantz4250b]

Maybe. Clearly meant a lot to her whatever it was. How does this fit in with her 'I accidentally took notes home and never thought about them or looked at them' argument though?

Like I was saying the other day. I think there is something deeper, psychologically, going on with her. She kept the very first handover sheet she was ever given and I think we can assume she wasn't murdering or otherwise harming babies right from her first day.

IMO, she either doesn't know why she does this or can't face up to whatever condition is making her do it. Her answers are just like someone I know who has a similar issue and gives ridiculous answers to very straightforward questions on a certain subject.

 

[ColourPurple]

Mr Johnson is focusing his questioning on the 250 plus handover sheets that were found in Ms Letby's home when police searched. One sheet is from 1 June 2010. Mr Johnson says this dates to Ms Letby's first day on the neonatal unit (as part of a student placement)

Ok that's confirmed then. So opens up the angle that maybe she liked to keep handover sheets from "significant" dates

Mr Johnson is now asking Ms Letby about an exchange she had with her defence lawyer Ben Myers KC regarding a handover sheet for the triplet brothers Child O and P (who Ms Letby is alleged to have murdered on successive days in June 2016)


Ms Letby told her defence lawyer she took a sheet home as she needed to write up medications the next day. Mr Johnson has pulled up the sheet, on it is written 'caffeine' for Child P - no other medications are on the sheet

Mr Johnson says 'your evidence yesterday was you took that home because it had caffeine written on it and brought it in next day to help remind you of caffeine', Ms Letby says she did not say this. She says she also took a paper towel with medicines on it home

WTF? Why would you think that was a good explanation. And what was the date of the sheet in relation to their deaths?

 

[Tortoise]

10:58am

LL: "I wasn't thinking - they were just bits of paper."
Mr Johnson says the shredder was bought after Letby moved into her Chester home in April 2016.
LL: "They were insignificant."
NJ: "They are significant."
NJ: "They have the names of dead children on them."
LL: "They have the names of a lot of children on them - I agree I shouldn't have taken them home."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[ColourPurple]

I think it's really weird to take a medical document belonging to someone else and put it in a keepsake box with flowers on like a love letter (and even that when you're not a teenager!).

It can be used to suggest that she didn't just keep any old handover notes, she kept ones from significant dates as keepsakes! JMO

 

[Dcflag]

10:55am

Mr Johnson says Letby took the sheet for June 23, 2016 home as it had notes of drugs for Child O and Child P.
Letby said there was documentation on there, but cannot be sure what details were on it.
Letby said she took the note home deliberately to bring it back the following day for finishing up writing of medications.
A copy of the handover sheet is circulated to the jury and Letby. Mr Johnson says he is interested in the back, on the medical notes.
Letby describes what is on the note - medication for Child P - caffeine. Nothing was written for Child O. No medications were noted for a third child.
Letby said she had taken it back with the paper towel, which had further details.
Letby is asked when the Morrisons work bag was placed under her bed. Letby says she cannot recall the Ibiza bag became her new bag after her trip to Ibiza around June 2016.
Letby is asked how the handover sheets ended up in her bag. She says after emptying her pockets, the sheets would end up in her work bag.
Nicholas Johnson: "You're ferrying work sheets to and from work."
Letby: "I can't say definitively."
NJ: "They must have been...why put them in that bag at all?"
LL: "I can't recall."
NJ: "Can't or won't?"
LL: "They were just bits of paper to me."
Letby says she accepts pieces of paper - "it's the paper I accumulate, not the content."
Letby says she has difficulty throwing things away.
NJ: "Is that why you bought a shredder?"
LL: "I bought a shredder for certain documents when I bought the house...predominantly bank statements."
NJ: "Why not the handover sheets?"
LL: "I wasn't aware I had them."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Yet there were handover sheets IN the shredder box ‍

 

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue

Mr Johnson says 'your evidence yesterday was you took that home because it had caffeine written on it and brought it in next day to help remind you of caffeine', Ms Letby says she did not say this. She says she also took a paper towel with medicines on it home


Mr Johnson asks Ms Letby, the 250 plus handover sheets found, 'what were you thinking as this pile of handover sheets accumulated almost to the size of a phonebook' Ms Letby says she 'didn't recall I had that many' and says they are not significant, just pieces of paper

Ms Letby explains she has had difficulty throwing away paper her entire life and has cards, letters and various documents

Mr Johnson asks 'are you really asking the jury to accept that pieces of paper about dead children are insignificant' Ms Letby says 'yes'

 

[JosieJo]

10:55am

Mr Johnson says Letby took the sheet for June 23, 2016 home as it had notes of drugs for Child O and Child P.
Letby said there was documentation on there, but cannot be sure what details were on it.
Letby said she took the note home deliberately to bring it back the following day for finishing up writing of medications.
A copy of the handover sheet is circulated to the jury and Letby. Mr Johnson says he is interested in the back, on the medical notes.
Letby describes what is on the note - medication for Child P - caffeine. Nothing was written for Child O. No medications were noted for a third child.
Letby said she had taken it back with the paper towel, which had further details.
Letby is asked when the Morrisons work bag was placed under her bed. Letby says she cannot recall the Ibiza bag became her new bag after her trip to Ibiza around June 2016.
Letby is asked how the handover sheets ended up in her bag. She says after emptying her pockets, the sheets would end up in her work bag.
Nicholas Johnson: "You're ferrying work sheets to and from work."
Letby: "I can't say definitively."
NJ: "They must have been...why put them in that bag at all?"
LL: "I can't recall."
NJ: "Can't or won't?"
LL: "They were just bits of paper to me."
Letby says she accepts pieces of paper - "it's the paper I accumulate, not the content."
Letby says she has difficulty throwing things away.
NJ: "Is that why you bought a shredder?"
LL: "I bought a shredder for certain documents when I bought the house...predominantly bank statements."
NJ: "Why not the handover sheets?"
LL: "I wasn't aware I had them."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

She wasn't aware she had them? She struggling

 

[katydid23]

Yet there were handover sheets IN the shredder box ‍

But it said KEEP in big capital letters on the box

 

[Marantz4250b]

Yet there were handover sheets IN the shredder box ‍

It was the box the shredder came in - not the collection box part of said shredder.

 

[Jazmania]

Like I was saying the other day. I think there is something deeper, psychologically, going on with her. She kept the very first handover sheet she was ever given and I think we can assume she wasn't murdering or otherwise harming babies right from her first day.

IMO, she either doesn't know why she does this or can't face up to whatever condition is making her do it. Her answers are just like someone I know who has a similar issue and gives ridiculous answers to very straightforward questions on a certain subject.

Maybe. But at the least it shows that:
1. She has a weird attachment to these papers
2. She potentially has a weird attachment to these babies
3 She is a compulsive liar

 

[Dcflag]

Like I was saying the other day. I think there is something deeper, psychologically, going on with her. She kept the very first handover sheet she was ever given and I think we can assume she wasn't murdering or otherwise harming babies right from her first day.

IMO, she either doesn't know why she does this or can't face up to whatever condition is making her do it. Her answers are just like someone I know who has a similar issue and gives ridiculous answers to very straightforward questions on a certain subject.

But I also shows she’s not really capable of telling the truth, even in small, more insignificant things. She said under oath yesterday students don’t get handover sheets. She testified yesterday to completely different events regarding dr J that went against even her defence lawyer.

I don’t care who you are, it’s not normal to keep a handover sheet in a memory box that has nothing to do with you except that you worked that shift. Even if it’s your first ever shift, that’s not normal.