UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #5

[May72031]

It wasn't set up by her colleagues. You can find it in webarchives if you search lucyletby.com. It was set up by the Innocence Project, an american group who latch onto high profile cases where they think they can get a conviction overturned. But they were just posting news reports, had no additional info and weren't affiliated to LL or her lawyer because they posted how they'd written to her lawyer asking them to let her know about the website. There were hardly any info or posts on there before they took it down.

Was it actually set up by the Innocence Project? They're an esteemed and very professional outfit. I would be amazed if they got involved in a case in another country, while investigations were still ongoing.

 

[May72031]

Was it actually set up by the Innocence Project? They're an esteemed and very professional outfit. I would be amazed if they got involved in a case in another country, while investigations were still ongoing.

I see Marantz4250b has answered this. Thanks.

 

[JosieJo]

"In a message to her colleague Jennifer Jones-Key, she said: “Sorry if I was off, just wasn’t a great start to the shift but sadly it got worse.”
She went on to say: “I was struggling to accept what happened to [Child A]. Now we’ve lost [Child C] overnight and it’s all a bit much.”
She described the death as “so sad and cruel” and told Jones-Key: “I just keep seeing them both. No one should have to see and do the things we do. It’s heartbreaking.”
She added: “It’s not about me or anyone else, it’s those poor parents who have to walk away without their baby. It’s so unbelievably sad.”

Lucy Letby trial: nurse described newborns’ deaths as ‘sad and cruel’

Defendant accused of murdering seven babies told colleague it was ‘all a bit much’ after two deaths within week

www.theguardian.com

 

[MachinaCollecta]

I remain open to the evidence as it comes in, but I’m seeing comments in the thread stating that because LL seems contrite in some of these messages it therefore implies possible innocence. Expressing sympathies is a public facing thing, so these private messages could be LL covering her tracks by making sure she seems emotionally invested in the passing of these children. I’m not saying that this is what’s happened (pure speculation on my part), but none of this is completely black or white.

 

[MissMarbles]

3:59pm

The court is now hearing evidence from Yvonne Griffiths, who was the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit deputy manager in June 2015 and a senior nursing practitioner.
An 'admin error' had resulted in Ms Griffiths' notes for child C being written in the file for a different child, but the error was spotted and rectified quickly.
The note is written on June 14 on reflection notes from June 12, with care from 8am that day.
The notes record "assistance with ventilation by NCPAP", with oxygen levels varying from 37% to 25%.
Child C was "unsettled at times". Ms Griffiths said he "only loved to be held by parents in a kangaroo style".
The long line was administered, and at 6.30pm, 'bile noted on blanket'. Ms Griffiths said with any baby there is a worry with introducing feeds too early. On this occasion bile came out "spontaneously".
Ms Griffiths said the naso-gastric tube was aspirated as a matter of procedure and 2mls of black stained fluid appeared.
Child C was "too unsettled" for a lumbar puncture - plan to reassess later".
Ms Griffiths said they would not want to take the risk if the baby was too active, as a lumbar puncture would involve a needle.
Ms Griffiths added she came in the morning after Child C had died, to assist staff.

4.01

Mr Myers says Child C was "at the limit" [for weight] for being accepted into care at the Countess of Chester Hospital.

Ms Griffiths had said, in a police statement, the hospital did not often care for babies of that weight.

She tells the court there is a decision to be made whether the baby is suitable to be cared for at the Countess, or risking transfer to a tertiary centre, and that is made

4:12pm

Ms Griffiths said, in the police statement, "it was very uncertain" what the outcome would be for Child C.
She confirms she was the designated nurse for Child C on June 12. She also confirms Letby was not in the unit that day.
Mr Myers talks through the nursing notes from the previous night shift, for June 11-12. At that point no bile aspirates had been recorded.
He refers to a note about Child C requiring an increase in oxygen when handling as Child C was desaturating.
Ms Griffiths says, in relation to the air in the stomach, the nurses "did everything" they could through the naso-gastric tube to aspirate air.

4:18pm

The note referring to bile found on the blanket and 2mls of black stained fluid being aspirated from June 12 at 6.30pm is referred to.
Mr Myers asks if dark bile is a matter for concern.
"Any bile is a matter of caution," Ms Griffiths replies, and feeds would be stopped as a precaution.
She added Child C did not desaturate when vomiting a small amount of fluid. She agrees it was important for close monitoring on Child C.
Mr Myers: "It is a potentially serious issue, isn't it?"
Ms Griffiths: "Yes - and I did get the doctor to review."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, October 27

THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

I've no idea what it could signify, but the 'very dark black aspirates"/"black stained fluid"/"dark bile" does sound rather alarming to me.

 

[Tortoise]

I've no idea what it could signify, but the 'very dark black aspirates"/"black stained fluid"/"dark bile" does sound rather alarming to me.

This is from opening statements (as reported by Sky):

"When the nurse checked Child C's stomach contents, they founded traces of bile - an early sign of necrotising enterocolitis (NEC), a serious gastrointestinal disease where a portion of the bowel becomes inflamed and may die.
As a result, the hospital temporarily stopped his feeds - but just hours later Child C was fine, and a decision was made to re-institue milk feeds."

UK - Lucy Letby Trial - Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[Tortoise]

Much better from the defence today apparently. If stomach air embolism is the suspected cause of most of these deaths and collapses then how would it interact with the “CPAP belly” or even be told apart ? In this case at least. I already have doubts about the AE theory with baby B recovering and now Baby C has something similar to what would be expected in a stomach air embolism but is natural causes.

Today they have just been going through Child C's medical history from birth on 10th June to the 13th June day-shift. He collapsed late on the night-shift of 13th June, and died early morning of 14th June. His medical condition isn't in dispute, so this (IMO) is just laying foundation for what happened on the night-shift (I expect we will hear from those staff members tomorrow), and the prosecution expert witnesses who agreed that his death wasn't merely explained by these difficulties.

Part of the opening statements:


At the time, the consultant pathologist gave the cause of death as "widespread hypoxic/ischaemic damage to the heart/myocardium due to lung disease".
Child C's vocal cords were "swollen" - something the prosecution say is a reoccuring feature in this case.
Independent medical experts who reviewed the cases thought that infection was a "significant factor" in Child C's collapse, "but did not adequately explain it".
"The damage to his heart was the result of, rather than the cause of his collapse," says Nick Johnson, KC.
A second doctor said "although Child C had pneumonia at the time of his death, she believed that was not the cause of death".
She said Child C's collapse was concerning and had no clear cause.
Her view was "the only feasible mechanism" for the excessive air in the gut at the time of the collapse was the deliberate introduction of air via the nasal gastric tube.

UK - Lucy Letby Trial - Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[MissMarbles]

Today they have just been going through Child C's medical history from birth on 10th June to the 13th June day-shift. He collapsed late on the night-shift of 13th June, and died early morning of 14th June. His medical condition isn't in dispute, so this (IMO) is just laying foundation for what happened on the night-shift (I expect we will hear from those staff members tomorrow), and the prosecution expert witnesses who agreed that his death wasn't merely explained by these difficulties.

Part of the opening statements:


At the time, the consultant pathologist gave the cause of death as "widespread hypoxic/ischaemic damage to the heart/myocardium due to lung disease".
Child C's vocal cords were "swollen" - something the prosecution say is a reoccuring feature in this case.
Independent medical experts who reviewed the cases thought that infection was a "significant factor" in Child C's collapse, "but did not adequately explain it".
"The damage to his heart was the result of, rather than the cause of his collapse," says Nick Johnson, KC.
A second doctor said "although Child C had pneumonia at the time of his death, she believed that was not the cause of death".
She said Child C's collapse was concerning and had no clear cause.
Her view was "the only feasible mechanism" for the excessive air in the gut at the time of the collapse was the deliberate introduction of air via the nasal gastric tube.

UK - Lucy Letby Trial - Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*

Thank you. I'm finding it hard to keep track and this is only the third baby. By the end there will be so many charges for the jury to consider. I'm glad they've been given the ipads.

 

[JosieJo]

I know its a while off yet but I'm really intrigued as to what defence witnesses will be called

 

[Dotta]

I know its a while off yet but I'm really intrigued as to what defence witnesses will be called

LL's parents?

Is it possible?
I'm really curious.

 

[Marantz4250b]

LL's parents?

Is it possible?
I'm really curious.

I can't see how they could be defence witnesses. What connection to any of it could they possibly have?

 

[Charlot123]

DNo, I agree. It isn’t proof/a confession as it stands because there are contradictory statements of innocence as well. It will need exploration by both sides later. My point was that, IMO, there can be no other interpretation of what that specific sentence - taken in isolation - meant. Whether it’s true or not - I just don’t know at this point.

LL would not have to answer any questions put to her by the police at all. And she would have been entitled to a solicitor/lawyer during questioning as well.

But did she have 9ne? This is an important question.

 

[Dotta]

I can't see how they could be defence witnesses. What connection to any of it could they possibly have?

Well, character witnesses.
Something like her dedication to work, etc.

Also, it was reported she wrote SMSes about her state of mind after the deaths of babies, no?
But I guess, it is not common to call parents as witnesses.

Moo

 

[Sundial]

Wait, you thought your colleague was murdering people? Were they?

Not murdering no. That was not what I meant, but causing distress to others by quite uncomfortable things/behaviour which were also reflected in some peculiar messages but in a subtle, indirect cryptic kind of way. I cannot describe it without giving the examples for more context, but it is not a nice feeling, sinking, uncomfortable, questionable.
Whilst they can be completely innocent messages/conversations (and even with searches on fb- even in this case with the trial), but from my point, I have seen something very similar that made me question if I was imagining it. You start to doubt yourself, it’s like you are making a fuss over nothing and can’t put your finger on the *something* but know something isn’t quite right. There were also other colleagues who raised similar concerns. I have no idea which way the trial will go; (guilty or not) but rather I was reflecting on a similar behaviour and whilst not murder, people were still at risk of harm.

 

[Charlot123]

Just unthinkably awful for them all.

And there’s really no outcome here that brings peace. If LL is guilty, they live with the knowledge that their baby could have lived.

Even if LL is found not guilty, I can’t imagine that doubt and all of that wondering will ever be fully extinguished.

This whole ordeal and the trauma will live with them always, regardless of the verdict of the case. My thoughts are with them constantly.

There is one big issue here.

Not only do these people have to relieve their PTSD by being present, they hear that the baby was fine from the experts.

Imagine LL is not found guilty. These poor parents will be left with their grief, and with unanswered question, what happened? Don't you think they'd start questioning the whole system of the hospital?

There is a lot of stress and pressure in this case. On the one hand you almost want the single culprit to be the answer, on the other, you want to hear about about the stressors of medical work, to change things for the better, for future parents.

 

[Dotta]

Not murdering no. That was not what I meant, but causing distress to others by quite uncomfortable things/behaviour which were also reflected in some peculiar messages but in a subtle, indirect cryptic kind of way. I cannot describe it without giving the examples for more context, but it is not a nice feeling, sinking, uncomfortable, questionable.
Whilst they can be completely innocent messages/conversations (and even with searches on fb- even in this case with the trial), but from my point, I have seen something very similar that made me question if I was imagining it. You start to doubt yourself, it’s like you are making a fuss over nothing and can’t put your finger on the *something* but know something isn’t quite right. There were also other colleagues who raised similar concerns. I have no idea which way the trial will go; (guilty or not) but rather I was reflecting on a similar behaviour and whilst not murder, people were still at risk of harm.

Oh, bad vibes.
Subtle but chilling.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Well, character witnesses.
Something like her dedication to work, etc.

Also, it was reported she wrote SMSes about her state of mind after the deaths of babies, no?
But I guess, it is not common to call parents as witnesses.

Moo

I can't see that it's relevant as to their opinion of her character. It's hugely biased in any event as she's their daughter.

Also, they are in court every day and I don't think thatould be allowed were they to be called as witnesses.

 

[Dotta]

I can't see that it's relevant as to their opinion of her character. It's hugely biased in any event as she's their daughter.

Also, they are in court every day and I don't think thatould be allowed were they to be called as witnesses.

Oh, OK
I don't even know why I thought about them.

But I am really curious who will support her.

 

[Sundial]

Oh, bad vibes.
Subtle but chilling.

Absolutely. There is just something very off, but then when you think, “what”??..or “what do you mean?”.. it was like being gaslighted, the comment.. “ignore me”,..you then sort of question your own mind. Mentally, it makes you feel so uncomfortable yet it’s so subtly done,. All I can say from what I’ve seen personally (absolutely nothing to do with this case whatsoever; this is my OWN experience), the text conversations and colleagues raising concerns; for me it just echoes my experience. As I’ve been reading about the trial, it is the conversations between colleagues that are quite similar that puts me on edge. The only time I have ever experienced such similar circumstances, is that which I mention, and in comparison to the trial, these messages and conversations between a colleagues and concerns; just seem so uncomfortably similar.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Oh, OK
I don't even know why I thought about them.

But I am really curious who will support her.

I suspect possibly fellow nurses / hospital staff who may have opinions about the working conditions?