Tortoise
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This isn't fact, it's your opinion and should be noted as such, without a source to back it up.
UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #5
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Tortoise
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I'll be out for a few hours if someone wants to take over the updates
LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, October 27
LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, October 27
JosieJo
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No not yet ..and I agree they would have had to think long and hard to put the parents on the stand but having said that if they could have defended this they would have ...there are lots of softer options open to them to try and minimise the distress
MachinaCollecta
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You’ve stated this as if it’s a fact, it isn’t. This is your opinion on what someone might do only.
Wait, you thought your colleague was murdering people? Were they?
So many distressed and grieving parents in this case - including LL's. Their recent years have also been a nightmare, and just at a time of life when they should be enjoying more freedom, leisure, travelling perhaps, welcoming grandchildren. Whatever the result of the trial, they will never recover from this. I do hope they have some supportive friends.
Sweeper2000
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I’ll stop going on about those words. you know where I stand.
I will ask people to ask themselves why Lucy would include those words in that sentence though. Must be a reason.
I will ask people to ask themselves why Lucy would include those words in that sentence though. Must be a reason.
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JosieJo
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This will be interesting to hear more
JosieJo
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2:25pm
The clinical note from June 13 is raised.
Mr Myers suggests there are 'increased issues' for Child C.
Dr Ogden: "It's hard to say."
Mr Myers refers to the 'very dark...black aspirates', and Dr Ogden agrees they are "a cause for concern".
2:25pm
The clinical note from June 13 is raised.
Mr Myers suggests there are 'increased issues' for Child C.
Dr Ogden: "It's hard to say."
Mr Myers refers to the 'very dark...black aspirates', and Dr Ogden agrees they are "a cause for concern".
2:27pm
Mr Myers asks if the aspirates are a 'red flag' warning sign.
Dr Ogden: "It's certainly a worrying sign which would need more investigation."
2:30pm
A nursing note is presented which showed Child C's weight, by June 13, had dropped to 717g. The note adds: "Doctors aware."
Mr Myers says if that was the weight of Child C at birth, he would not have been card for at the Countess.
Dr Ogden: "I don't think so, no."
2:30pm
A nursing note is presented which showed Child C's weight, by June 13, had dropped to 717g. The note adds: "Doctors aware."
Mr Myers says if that was the weight of Child C at birth, he would not have been card for at the Countess.
Dr Ogden: "I don't think so, no."
2:34pm
That concludes Dr Ogden's evidence.
Dr Gail Beech is now being called to give evidence.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
The clinical note from June 13 is raised.
Mr Myers suggests there are 'increased issues' for Child C.
Dr Ogden: "It's hard to say."
Mr Myers refers to the 'very dark...black aspirates', and Dr Ogden agrees they are "a cause for concern".
2:25pm
The clinical note from June 13 is raised.
Mr Myers suggests there are 'increased issues' for Child C.
Dr Ogden: "It's hard to say."
Mr Myers refers to the 'very dark...black aspirates', and Dr Ogden agrees they are "a cause for concern".
2:27pm
Mr Myers asks if the aspirates are a 'red flag' warning sign.
Dr Ogden: "It's certainly a worrying sign which would need more investigation."
2:30pm
A nursing note is presented which showed Child C's weight, by June 13, had dropped to 717g. The note adds: "Doctors aware."
Mr Myers says if that was the weight of Child C at birth, he would not have been card for at the Countess.
Dr Ogden: "I don't think so, no."
2:30pm
A nursing note is presented which showed Child C's weight, by June 13, had dropped to 717g. The note adds: "Doctors aware."
Mr Myers says if that was the weight of Child C at birth, he would not have been card for at the Countess.
Dr Ogden: "I don't think so, no."
2:34pm
That concludes Dr Ogden's evidence.
Dr Gail Beech is now being called to give evidence.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, October 27
THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
JosieJo
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2:43pm
In June 2015, Dr Beech was working at the Countess of Chester Hospital as a registrar.
She confirms working day shifts on June 11-12 and had involvement with Child C and his parents.
She confirms she carried out an ultrasound scan for child C on June 11, and the reviewing doctor recorded 'NAD' - no abnormalities detected.
2:53pm
Dr Beech's note made on June 12, 10.15am is shown to the court.
She recorded, from data, Child C was on CPAP, 30-40% oxygen assistance from CPAP, the saturation levels for Child C were '91-98%', with 'no documented desaturations'. Gases were 'satisfactory'.
"It looks like he was pretty stable on those CPAP settings," Dr Beech tells the court. The gases refer to the blood gases.
The urine levels were "slightly high, but not concerning yet".
Under the heading 'sepsis', a CRP reading going up was "something to be aware of" but "not a huge rise", according to Dr Beech, and a note 'awaiting lumbar puncture' was made.
2:57pm
The lactate reading recorded is 1.8-2.8. Dr Beech says 2.8 is "high" but had been falling from a higher number.
2:59pm
Dr Beech said there was "nothing there" on the clinical chart numbers which was "worrying", with a few readings being "something to be mindful of".
He was a "nice stable baby" as he had been allowed out of his incubator to be allowed skin-to-skin contact with his mum, Dr Beech added.
3:01pm
Dr Beech said the UVC had come out of Child C during a previous shift, and a note was made for a long line to be inserted later.
3:06pm
The follow-up note showed Dr Beech had inserted the long line under sterile conditions, and was secured in at the third attempt, with the note 'happy with position', adding 'patient left comfortable'.
An x-ray of Child C, timed 12.36pm on June 12, shows the long line having been inserted.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
In June 2015, Dr Beech was working at the Countess of Chester Hospital as a registrar.
She confirms working day shifts on June 11-12 and had involvement with Child C and his parents.
She confirms she carried out an ultrasound scan for child C on June 11, and the reviewing doctor recorded 'NAD' - no abnormalities detected.
2:53pm
Dr Beech's note made on June 12, 10.15am is shown to the court.
She recorded, from data, Child C was on CPAP, 30-40% oxygen assistance from CPAP, the saturation levels for Child C were '91-98%', with 'no documented desaturations'. Gases were 'satisfactory'.
"It looks like he was pretty stable on those CPAP settings," Dr Beech tells the court. The gases refer to the blood gases.
The urine levels were "slightly high, but not concerning yet".
Under the heading 'sepsis', a CRP reading going up was "something to be aware of" but "not a huge rise", according to Dr Beech, and a note 'awaiting lumbar puncture' was made.
2:57pm
The lactate reading recorded is 1.8-2.8. Dr Beech says 2.8 is "high" but had been falling from a higher number.
2:59pm
Dr Beech said there was "nothing there" on the clinical chart numbers which was "worrying", with a few readings being "something to be mindful of".
He was a "nice stable baby" as he had been allowed out of his incubator to be allowed skin-to-skin contact with his mum, Dr Beech added.
3:01pm
Dr Beech said the UVC had come out of Child C during a previous shift, and a note was made for a long line to be inserted later.
3:06pm
The follow-up note showed Dr Beech had inserted the long line under sterile conditions, and was secured in at the third attempt, with the note 'happy with position', adding 'patient left comfortable'.
An x-ray of Child C, timed 12.36pm on June 12, shows the long line having been inserted.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, October 27
THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
JosieJo
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3:12pm
An x-ray review recorded, in the comments, 'large stomach bubble, gaseous bowel'.
Dr Beech said this "wouldn't be a huge concern" given Child C was on CPAP.
3:16pm
Dr Beech reiterates there were no significant concerns for Child C at that point, but there were "matters to be mindful of".
3:19pm
Mr Myers now asks Dr Beech questions on behalf of Lucy Letby.
The three attempts to insert a long line, from a clinical note, are shown to the court again.
Mr Myers asks if there is a guide to the number of attempts, or who should administer them.
Dr Beech said it would be a procedure by a doctor, not a nurse, and would be done by the most junior doctor present, to get them experience, subject to availability and the complexity of the procedure.
Dr Beech said there was "an unwritten rule" a registrar would have two or three attempts before escalating the procedure to someone more senior.
3:21pm
Dr Beech explains the note 'flushed' is made as confirmation the long line has been 'flushed' to ensure there is no air in it.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
An x-ray review recorded, in the comments, 'large stomach bubble, gaseous bowel'.
Dr Beech said this "wouldn't be a huge concern" given Child C was on CPAP.
3:16pm
Dr Beech reiterates there were no significant concerns for Child C at that point, but there were "matters to be mindful of".
3:19pm
Mr Myers now asks Dr Beech questions on behalf of Lucy Letby.
The three attempts to insert a long line, from a clinical note, are shown to the court again.
Mr Myers asks if there is a guide to the number of attempts, or who should administer them.
Dr Beech said it would be a procedure by a doctor, not a nurse, and would be done by the most junior doctor present, to get them experience, subject to availability and the complexity of the procedure.
Dr Beech said there was "an unwritten rule" a registrar would have two or three attempts before escalating the procedure to someone more senior.
3:21pm
Dr Beech explains the note 'flushed' is made as confirmation the long line has been 'flushed' to ensure there is no air in it.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, October 27
THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
JosieJo
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3:28pm
The x-ray of Child C with the long line in is presented to the court again.
The dark areas in the stomach and bowel areas refer to air inside the body, the court hears. It is compared to an x-ray taken of Child C at birth, where there was also a pocket of air in the stomach.
Dr Beech noted, from the June 12 x-ray, it was "very gaseous", and the result of CPAP.
Mr Myers asks if that could also be termed 'CPAP belly'.
Dr Beech says it could.
3:30pm
Dr Beech has concluded giving evidence.
There will be a short break in court of about 10-15 minutes.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
The x-ray of Child C with the long line in is presented to the court again.
The dark areas in the stomach and bowel areas refer to air inside the body, the court hears. It is compared to an x-ray taken of Child C at birth, where there was also a pocket of air in the stomach.
Dr Beech noted, from the June 12 x-ray, it was "very gaseous", and the result of CPAP.
Mr Myers asks if that could also be termed 'CPAP belly'.
Dr Beech says it could.
3:30pm
Dr Beech has concluded giving evidence.
There will be a short break in court of about 10-15 minutes.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, October 27
THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
Supernovae
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800g at birth is very light.
JosieJo
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3:59pm
The court is now hearing evidence from Yvonne Griffiths, who was the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit deputy manager in June 2015 and a senior nursing practitioner.
An 'admin error' had resulted in Ms Griffiths' notes for child C being written in the file for a different child, but the error was spotted and rectified quickly.
The note is written on June 14 on reflection notes from June 12, with care from 8am that day.
The notes record "assistance with ventilation by NCPAP", with oxygen levels varying from 37% to 25%.
Child C was "unsettled at times". Ms Griffiths said he "only loved to be held by parents in a kangaroo style".
The long line was administered, and at 6.30pm, 'bile noted on blanket'. Ms Griffiths said with any baby there is a worry with introducing feeds too early. On this occasion bile came out "spontaneously".
Ms Griffiths said the naso-gastric tube was aspirated as a matter of procedure and 2mls of black stained fluid appeared.
Child C was "too unsettled" for a lumbar puncture - plan to reassess later".
Ms Griffiths said they would not want to take the risk if the baby was too active, as a lumbar puncture would involve a needle.
Ms Griffiths added she came in the morning after Child C had died, to assist staff.
4.01
Mr Myers says Child C was "at the limit" [for weight] for being accepted into care at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
Ms Griffiths had said, in a police statement, the hospital did not often care for babies of that weight.
She tells the court there is a decision to be made whether the baby is suitable to be cared for at the Countess, or risking transfer to a tertiary centre, and that is made following consultation.
The court is now hearing evidence from Yvonne Griffiths, who was the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit deputy manager in June 2015 and a senior nursing practitioner.
An 'admin error' had resulted in Ms Griffiths' notes for child C being written in the file for a different child, but the error was spotted and rectified quickly.
The note is written on June 14 on reflection notes from June 12, with care from 8am that day.
The notes record "assistance with ventilation by NCPAP", with oxygen levels varying from 37% to 25%.
Child C was "unsettled at times". Ms Griffiths said he "only loved to be held by parents in a kangaroo style".
The long line was administered, and at 6.30pm, 'bile noted on blanket'. Ms Griffiths said with any baby there is a worry with introducing feeds too early. On this occasion bile came out "spontaneously".
Ms Griffiths said the naso-gastric tube was aspirated as a matter of procedure and 2mls of black stained fluid appeared.
Child C was "too unsettled" for a lumbar puncture - plan to reassess later".
Ms Griffiths said they would not want to take the risk if the baby was too active, as a lumbar puncture would involve a needle.
Ms Griffiths added she came in the morning after Child C had died, to assist staff.
4.01
Mr Myers says Child C was "at the limit" [for weight] for being accepted into care at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
Ms Griffiths had said, in a police statement, the hospital did not often care for babies of that weight.
She tells the court there is a decision to be made whether the baby is suitable to be cared for at the Countess, or risking transfer to a tertiary centre, and that is made following consultation.
JosieJo
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4:12pm
Ms Griffiths said, in the police statement, "it was very uncertain" what the outcome would be for Child C.
She confirms she was the designated nurse for Child C on June 12. She also confirms Letby was not in the unit that day.
Mr Myers talks through the nursing notes from the previous night shift, for June 11-12. At that point no bile aspirates had been recorded.
He refers to a note about Child C requiring an increase in oxygen when handling as Child C was desaturating.
Ms Griffiths says, in relation to the air in the stomach, the nurses "did everything" they could through the naso-gastric tube to aspirate air.
4:18pm
The note referring to bile found on the blanket and 2mls of black stained fluid being aspirated from June 12 at 6.30pm is referred to.
Mr Myers asks if dark bile is a matter for concern.
"Any bile is a matter of caution," Ms Griffiths replies, and feeds would be stopped as a precaution.
She added Child C did not desaturate when vomiting a small amount of fluid. She agrees it was important for close monitoring on Child C.
Mr Myers: "It is a potentially serious issue, isn't it?"
Ms Griffiths: "Yes - and I did get the doctor to review."
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Ms Griffiths said, in the police statement, "it was very uncertain" what the outcome would be for Child C.
She confirms she was the designated nurse for Child C on June 12. She also confirms Letby was not in the unit that day.
Mr Myers talks through the nursing notes from the previous night shift, for June 11-12. At that point no bile aspirates had been recorded.
He refers to a note about Child C requiring an increase in oxygen when handling as Child C was desaturating.
Ms Griffiths says, in relation to the air in the stomach, the nurses "did everything" they could through the naso-gastric tube to aspirate air.
4:18pm
The note referring to bile found on the blanket and 2mls of black stained fluid being aspirated from June 12 at 6.30pm is referred to.
Mr Myers asks if dark bile is a matter for concern.
"Any bile is a matter of caution," Ms Griffiths replies, and feeds would be stopped as a precaution.
She added Child C did not desaturate when vomiting a small amount of fluid. She agrees it was important for close monitoring on Child C.
Mr Myers: "It is a potentially serious issue, isn't it?"
Ms Griffiths: "Yes - and I did get the doctor to review."
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, October 27
THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
JosieJo
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4:24pm
Ms Griffiths has finished giving evidence.
The court has now adjourned for today.
The trial will resume at the earlier time of 10am on Friday, October 28.
We will be continue to provide live coverage throughout the day.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Ms Griffiths has finished giving evidence.
The court has now adjourned for today.
The trial will resume at the earlier time of 10am on Friday, October 28.
We will be continue to provide live coverage throughout the day.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, October 27
THE trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
Sweeper2000
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Much better from the defence today apparently. If stomach air embolism is the suspected cause of most of these deaths and collapses then how would it interact with the “CPAP belly” or even be told apart ? In this case at least. I already have doubts about the AE theory with baby B recovering and now Baby C has something similar to what would be expected in a stomach air embolism but is natural causes.
Little Nicki
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This is pretty much what I wanted to say but didn't know how. As someone who's not 'neurotypical' myself, I have read many of LLs comments and things about her behaviours which I could 100% see myself doing or saying. Even more so at times of stress or upset or under pressure. Putting my foot in my mouth is a regular thing around here - as is then beating myself up about it mentally for hours, days, years even.
Edited to add.... To look at me or speak to me or see me out and about you would never know I was 'on the spectrum'. You'd just think "Oh she talks a lot and has no filter"
Sweeper2000
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Yip same here. If I had a normal social mind I would rule the world, falling short of that I’ll just have to learn as I go. I make those sort of mistakes daily.
In regards to LL so long as remorse is present it isn’t concerning. If she’s only had one or two social hiccups in a year then she’s doing outstandingly as far as I’m concerned.
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