UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #9

[Sweeper2000]

As I mentioned yesterday, photos are normal. For some families those photos may be the only ones they have of their baby without nasal tubes or being hooked up to a machine, and are cherished for that reason.

I don’t get the impression from the mother’s statement that LL was bouncing in the room with a jolly disposition snapping pictures, just that something about her overall demeanour was unusual. JMO.

neither do I.

two seemingly different accounts of that situation.

“Two nurses, including Letby, asked if the mother wanted to bathe Child I.

While bathing, Letby was "smiling and kept going on about much she was present at [Child I]'s first bath and how much [Child I] had loved it.

"I wished she'd just stop talking. i think, eventually, she realised. It wasn't something we wanted to hear right now.

"I remember it was Lucy who packaged up [Child I]'s belongings."”

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 25

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

and

“After Child I was pronounced dead, her parents were moved to a private room at visiting time. They then agreed to bathe their daughter’s body.
She said: “Lucy brought the bath in. She said she could come in and take some photos which we could keep. While we were bathing her, Lucy came back in. She was smiling and kept going on about how she was present at the first bath and how [Child I] had loved it.
“I wished she would just stop talking. Eventually she realised and stopped. It was not something we wanted to hear. I remember it was Lucy who packaged up [Child I’s] belongings to go home.”

Lucy Letby: nurse offered to take photos of baby she had killed, court hears

Nurse denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 others at neo-natal unit in Chester

www.theguardian.com

So she didn’t walk back in smiling but smiled Whilst the child was being bathed. I’m going with the chester account, the guardian seems to have Arranged the info purposely? I really don’t know what to think there though. Not so clear cut about how that actually happened. Smiling whilst the baby was being bathed isn’t necessarily too far out especially when LL stopped doing what she must have realised was making the parents uncomfortable if that’s the right word. I can’t tell for sure but she may have been trying to comfort them. It would I think depend on what she said and how long she spoke for before stopping.

 

[Dotta]

neither do I.

two seemingly different accounts of that situation.

“Two nurses, including Letby, asked if the mother wanted to bathe Child I.

While bathing, Letby was "smiling and kept going on about much she was present at [Child I]'s first bath and how much [Child I] had loved it.

"I wished she'd just stop talking. i think, eventually, she realised. It wasn't something we wanted to hear right now.

"I remember it was Lucy who packaged up [Child I]'s belongings."”

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 25

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

and

“After Child I was pronounced dead, her parents were moved to a private room at visiting time. They then agreed to bathe their daughter’s body.
She said: “Lucy brought the bath in. She said she could come in and take some photos which we could keep. While we were bathing her, Lucy came back in. She was smiling and kept going on about how she was present at the first bath and how [Child I] had loved it.
“I wished she would just stop talking. Eventually she realised and stopped. It was not something we wanted to hear. I remember it was Lucy who packaged up [Child I’s] belongings to go home.”

Lucy Letby: nurse offered to take photos of baby she had killed, court hears

Nurse denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 others at neo-natal unit in Chester

www.theguardian.com

So she didn’t walk back in smiling but smiled Whilst the child was being bathed. I’m going with the chester account, the guardian seems to have Arranged the info purposely? I really don’t know what to think there though. Not so clear cut about how that actually happened. Smiling whilst the baby was being bathed isn’t necessarily too far out especially when LL stopped doing what she must have realised was making the parents uncomfortable if that’s the right word. I can’t tell for sure but she may have been trying to comfort them. It would I think depend on what she said and how long she spoke for before stopping.

These parents seem to me very critical about both LL and the hospital.
And I am not surprised.
Not in the least.
What a tragedy this whole case is

JMO

 

[JosieJo]

neither do I.

two seemingly different accounts of that situation.

“Two nurses, including Letby, asked if the mother wanted to bathe Child I.

While bathing, Letby was "smiling and kept going on about much she was present at [Child I]'s first bath and how much [Child I] had loved it.

"I wished she'd just stop talking. i think, eventually, she realised. It wasn't something we wanted to hear right now.

"I remember it was Lucy who packaged up [Child I]'s belongings."”

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 25

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

and

“After Child I was pronounced dead, her parents were moved to a private room at visiting time. They then agreed to bathe their daughter’s body.
She said: “Lucy brought the bath in. She said she could come in and take some photos which we could keep. While we were bathing her, Lucy came back in. She was smiling and kept going on about how she was present at the first bath and how [Child I] had loved it.
“I wished she would just stop talking. Eventually she realised and stopped. It was not something we wanted to hear. I remember it was Lucy who packaged up [Child I’s] belongings to go home.”

Lucy Letby: nurse offered to take photos of baby she had killed, court hears

Nurse denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 others at neo-natal unit in Chester

www.theguardian.com

So she didn’t walk back in smiling but smiled Whilst the child was being bathed. I’m going with the chester account, the guardian seems to have Arranged the info purposely? I really don’t know what to think there though. Not so clear cut about how that actually happened. Smiling whilst the baby was being bathed isn’t necessarily too far out especially when LL stopped doing what she must have realised was making the parents uncomfortable if that’s the right word. I can’t tell for sure but she may have been trying to comfort them. It would I think depend on what she said and how long she spoke for before stopping.

Whatever happened it made the parents feel "uncomfortable" ...this is not the first time grieving parents have said the attention was odd in some way .. plus yet again she is dealing with grieving parents that were not one of her own babies

 

[Sweeper2000]

These parents seem to me very critical about both LL and the hospital.
And I am not surprised.
Not in the least.
What a tragedy this whole case is

JMO

I thought that was strange actually. Arrowe park being a more specialised hospital I expected a higher quality there but by her account she wasn’t impressed by the staff. She also said she felt better about coch comparatively because they resusd the baby successfully? So many times but I’m not sure the baby needing the resus is a good sign in the first place.

 

[Dotta]

I thought that was strange actually. Arrowe park being a more specialised hospital I expected a higher quality there but by her account she wasn’t impressed by the staff. She also said she felt better about coch comparatively because they resusd the baby successfully? So many times but I’m not sure the baby needing the resus is a good sign in the first place.

Really?
I understood parents
praised Arrowe but were critical of CoC.
But I may be wrong - I usually skim through the reports, afraid these terrible details might get stuck in my memory

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Whatever happened it made the parents feel "uncomfortable" ...this is not the first time grieving parents have said the attention was odd in some way .. plus yet again she is dealing with grieving parents that were not one of her own babies

Yeah, at the end of the day these parents are experiencing the absolute worst time of their lives, and you've made them feel so uncomfortable that they still remember it years later and inserting yourself into these situations to then act inappropriately.

I don't think you should be smiling and talking about baby's first bath, during their last bath, unless parents are doing that first and then you follow their lead with it. Just my opinion of course

 

[Tortoise]

short timeline for Sep 2015

3 Sep, Thu - LL night shift - first night shift worked since insulin poisoning of Baby F on 5 Aug
4 Sep, Fri - LL night shift
5 Sep, Sat - LL night shift
6 Sep, Sun - LL night shift, final shift of a block of 4 nights - 1st alleged attempted murder Baby G
8 Sep, Tue - Facebook parents of A&B
14 Sep, Mon - Facebook mother of E&F
21 Sep, Mon - LL day shift - 2nd and 3rd alleged attempted murders Baby G
21 Sep, Mon - Facebook parents of G, mother of E&F, mother of C or D
23 Sep, Wed - LL night shift (extra shift)
24 Sep, Thu - LL night shift
25 Sep, Fri - LL night shift - 1st alleged attempted murder Baby H
26 Sep, Sat - LL text mgr. about not so positive comments - LL night shift - 2nd alleged attempted murder Baby H
27 Sep, Sun - LL not working - Colleague: Smthg odd with H - LL: always seems to happen at night when less people
28 Sep, Mon - LL not working
29 Sep, Tue - LL not working
30 Sep, Wed - LL day shift - 1st alleged attempted murder baby I

 

[Sweeper2000]

Really?
I understood parents
praised Arrowe but were critical of CoC.
But I may be wrong - I usually skim through the reports, afraid these terrible details might get stuck in my memory

noticed that in myself tbh, certain bits of evidence in the case seem to stick in my memory and then I forget something else that’s relevant.

I believe her preference would have been to have been treated at Liverpool women’s but was eventually transferred to coch which I think she didn’t like because they seemed so busy. The baby was transferred to arrowe once and then this

“Arrowe Park then told the parents there was 'nothing wrong with her'. The mother felt the staff were 'being rude' and she felt she had to defend the Countess staff as they had to save Child I's life 'time and time again'.

The Arrowe Park doctor told the mother he 'couldn't understand what she was saying'. The nurse said she was going to give Child I some milk, and the mother said 'no, she's nil by mouth'. The nurse apologised and said she hadn't read the chart. The mother was angry at this.”

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 25

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

I might think she would have had greater opportunity to see things she didn’t like at coch due to more time being spent there. Including a staff member who seemed unwell for a few days.

Whatever happened it made the parents feel "uncomfortable" ...this is not the first time grieving parents have said the attention was odd in some way .. plus yet again she is dealing with grieving parents that were not one of her own babies

was originally two nurses who asked about the Bath, not sure if the other nurse was the DN.

Is that strict protocol then for the designated nurse to be present for aftercares in the event of a baby not making it?

I couldn’t say that I think it’s reasonable to suggest that making the parents feel uncomfortable is good cause to think the worse. If she is not socially minded she would probably make people think she is odd all the time, that doesn’t suggest she’s bad but will make neurotypicals discriminate IMO. Nothing like a social misfit or the odd one out to burn at the stake. For some it’s only too easy to do IMO. She also seemed to correct and tailor her output which shows affective empathy.

just a suggestion, if she was the odd bod on the ward that may have been what got her on trial. Jmo. Assuming she is innocent.

 

[JosieJo]

I believe her preference would have been to have been treated at Liverpool women’s but was eventually transferred to coch which I think she didn’t like because they seemed so busy. The baby was transferred to arrowe once and then this

“Arrowe Park then told the parents there was 'nothing wrong with her'. The mother felt the staff were 'being rude' and she felt she had to defend the Countess staff as they had to save Child I's life 'time and time again'.

The Arrowe Park doctor told the mother he 'couldn't understand what she was saying'. The nurse said she was going to give Child I some milk, and the mother said 'no, she's nil by mouth'. The nurse apologised and said she hadn't read the chart. The mother was angry at this.”

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 25

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

I might think she would have had greater opportunity to see things she didn’t like at coch due to more time being spent there. Including a staff member who seemed unwell for a few days.


was originally two nurses who asked about the Bath, not sure if the other nurse was the DN.

Is that strict protocol then for the designated nurse to be present for aftercares in the event of a baby not making it?

I couldn’t say that I think it’s reasonable to suggest that making the parents feel uncomfortable is good cause to think the worse. If she is not socially minded she would probably make people think she is odd all the time, that doesn’t suggest she’s bad but will make neurotypicals discriminate IMO. Nothing like a social misfit or the odd one out to burn at the stake. For some it’s only too easy to do IMO. She also seemed to correct and tailor her output which shows affective empathy.

just a suggestion, if she was the odd bod on the ward that may have been what got her on trial. Jmo. Assuming she is innocent.

It would normally be the designated nurse yes ..of course there may be rare occasions that is not possible but when put into context with the occasion where the senior nurse had to tell her to go back to her own babies when being with other nurses bereaved families it seems less likely.

 

[Dotta]

noticed that in myself tbh, certain bits of evidence in the case seem to stick in my memory and then I forget something else that’s relevant.

I believe her preference would have been to have been treated at Liverpool women’s but was eventually transferred to coch which I think she didn’t like because they seemed so busy. The baby was transferred to arrowe once and then this

“Arrowe Park then told the parents there was 'nothing wrong with her'. The mother felt the staff were 'being rude' and she felt she had to defend the Countess staff as they had to save Child I's life 'time and time again'.

The Arrowe Park doctor told the mother he 'couldn't understand what she was saying'. The nurse said she was going to give Child I some milk, and the mother said 'no, she's nil by mouth'. The nurse apologised and said she hadn't read the chart. The mother was angry at this.”

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, January 25

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

I might think she would have had greater opportunity to see things she didn’t like at coch due to more time being spent there. Including a staff member who seemed unwell for a few days.


was originally two nurses who asked about the Bath, not sure if the other nurse was the DN.

Is that strict protocol then for the designated nurse to be present for aftercares in the event of a baby not making it?

I couldn’t say that I think it’s reasonable to suggest that making the parents feel uncomfortable is good cause to think the worse. If she is not socially minded she would probably make people think she is odd all the time, that doesn’t suggest she’s bad but will make neurotypicals discriminate IMO. Nothing like a social misfit or the odd one out to burn at the stake. For some it’s only too easy to do IMO. She also seemed to correct and tailor her output which shows affective empathy.

just a suggestion, if she was the odd bod on the ward that may have been what got her on trial. Jmo. Assuming she is innocent.

Thanks.
What stuck in my mind (aargh!), is mother said that some nurses touched babies with "dirty hands".

 

[Tortoise]

20 minutes before fatal collapse of baby C

LL: "I just keep thinking about Monday. Feel like I need to be in 1 to overcome it, but [nursing colleague] said no x"
LL: “Well that’s how I feel. I don’t expect people to understand but I know how I feel and how I have dealt with it before. I voiced that so can’t do any more, but people should respect that.”
JJ-K: “I think they do respect it but also trying to help you.”
JJ-K: “Why don’t you go in 1 for a bit?”
LL: "Yeah, I have done a couple of meds in 1. I’ll be fine"


Mother of baby C -

'I ran down to the unit, where I could see CPR was being performed,' she said in a statement read to the court.
'I didn't really take in what was happening, and didn't take in the severity of the situation, until a nurse came up and asked whether I wanted someone to call a priest.
'I remember feeling quite shocked and I asked if she thought he was going to die. She responded: "Yes, I think so".
'I was surprised that this piece of information came from a nurse rather than a doctor.'
She described the nurse as being in her mid to late 20s with a fair complexion and her hair in a ponytail.

Premature baby survived 'injection of air', Lucy Letby trial hears

Father of baby C -

The family were taken into a room, where there were two nurses there, one of whom the father has since been able to identify as Lucy Letby.
The father and mother took turns holding Child C, "as we knew he wasn't going to make it".
A hand and footprint were taken of Child C, along with toys that were cotside.
One of the nurses came in and said something along the lines of 'you've said your goodbyes, now do you want me to put him in here [a basket]?'
The mum said 'he's not dying yet', and the nurse backtracked.
"We remember being really shocked by this."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, October 26

Shift-Leader

The nurse explains she asked Lucy Letby to focus back on a baby in nursery room 3, but Letby went into the family room "a few times". The nurse recalled asking Lucy Letby to leave the family to Melanie Taylor.
The nurse tells the court Letby did not have any designated duties to be in the family room, and told her "more than once" not to be in the family room.

The nurse said she believed another baby on the neonatal unit - the one Lucy Letby was designated to look after that night - should have had more care, including a septic screening, as the nurse believed that child was the most concerning to her that night.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, October 31


Mother of Baby I

“Lucy brought the bath in. She said she could come in and take some photos which we could keep. While we were bathing her, Lucy came back in. She was smiling and kept going on about how she was present at the first bath and how [Child I] had loved it. “I wished she would just stop talking. Eventually she realised and stopped. It was not something we wanted to hear. I remember it was Lucy who packaged up [Child I’s] belongings to go home.”

Lucy Letby: nurse offered to take photos of baby she had killed, court hears

 

[bbsaz]

I find this defence of COCH telling. To me, it supports the idea that her resusutations at Chester where unnatural (ie they were caused by something engineered, rather than caused by a natural occurance).

She goes to Arrow and they think she is fine, because naturally speaking Baby I is fine. She is only 'not fine' when someone has artifically made her unwell.

Of course the Mum will get defensive as she has seen resus attempts and at this point wouldnt think anything untoward caused them, so she would be defensive when Arrow seem to suggest her baby is fine. "Of course she isnt fine, Chester have had to resusitate her". I wonder if she reacts almost as if Arrow think Chester are hypochondriacs. And she had witnessed resus attempts, so knows they arent. But what Mum doesnt know (yet) is that the resus isnt needed for any natural reason, so Arrow are in fact right (imo)

 

[Sweeper2000]

It would normally be the designated nurse yes ..of course there may be rare occasions that is not possible but when put into context with the occasion where the senior nurse had to tell her to go back to her own babies when being with other nurses bereaved families it seems less likely.

Interesting. I’m wondering why the background to LL being present for the aftercares hasn’t been presented as evidence. I would have thought there was a discussion about it maybe including the most senior nurse present. There could just be a certain laxness about that on this unit though. It would be really interesting to hear the actual words used in that discussion, see if LL took the lead and actively sought to be the nurse present for the aftercares. See if she showed positive interest in it.

Thanks.
What stuck in my mind (aargh!), is mother said that some nurses touched babies with "dirty hands".

if It was me I wouldn’t let anyone near my baby, I’d just say “tell me what to do and ill do it”. Then I’d presumably get kicked out and have to come back apologising.

 

[Dotta]

"The court heard how Letby had sent a sympathy card to the infant's parents and also kept an image of it on her phone."

'Smiling' nurse Lucy Letby accused of killing baby girl after four attempts

The trial of British nurse Lucy Letby continues in Manchester, England. Letby is alleged to have killed 7 babies and attempting to murder 10 others. She denies all the charges against her.

www.foxnews.com

American Press picked up this case and have detailed reports.

 

[Dotta]

No news today?
Dear Mr Dan - please, hurry back!

 

[bbsaz]

"The court heard how Letby had sent a sympathy card to the infant's parents and also kept an image of it on her phone."

'Smiling' nurse Lucy Letby accused of killing baby girl after four attempts

The trial of British nurse Lucy Letby continues in Manchester, England. Letby is alleged to have killed 7 babies and attempting to murder 10 others. She denies all the charges against her.

www.foxnews.com

American Press picked up this case and have detailed reports.

This shows a video of the rooms. I would be interested to know which beds the alleged attacks in Room 1 happened in. I would assume, if nothing untoward has gone on, that there would be an even share across the beds...

There is a bed directly opposite the entrance door, I wonder how many babies were allegedly attacked in that bed, in relation to the beds which are more out of view (and which allow a degree of time to cover your tracks if someone enters the room)

 

[Becci]

Thanks.
What stuck in my mind (aargh!), is mother said that some nurses touched babies with "dirty hands".

I bet thats tightened up for sure since covid.
I also don't think mobile use in a neonatal unit should be allowed. Breeding ground for bacteria.

 

[Becci]

How old was baby i pls

 

[Tortoise]

just a suggestion, if she was the odd bod on the ward that may have been what got her on trial. Jmo. Assuming she is innocent.

How did you arrive at this opinion, bearing in mind the testimony of Dr Evans?

"He [Dr Evans] said: "The name Lucy Letby meant nothing to me. I didn't know the staff."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, October 25

 

[Tortoise]

How old was baby i pls

She was 11 weeks old when she died.

Born at 27 weeks gestation.