GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #31

[Marantz4250b]

His family obviously don't know. He has appeared in court behind a screen.

I'm not sure about that. I find it difficult to believe that his wife doesn't know, tbh.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Are you now thinking of changing careers, Marantz4250b?

Honestly do NOT get me started on parking wars and councils!!!!

 

[Kemug]

The jury are welcome to attend the sentencing if they want.
Sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t.
I would if I had sat on that jury.

I think I'd already be winging my way to some place far far away on the opposite side of the world, on the first flight I could get!

 

[Officer Dibble]

Ms Artell says she and her husband were discussing how their premature son was making good progress on the unit when the couple noticed Letby eavesdropping on their conversation.

She says, out of the blue, Letby told them: "I don't like parents getting their hopes up because we never know what could happen at this stage."



That^^^^ statement by Nurse Letby is terrifying.

and that statement says to me it was about superior control. JMO MOO.

I'm not sure about that. I find it difficult to believe that his wife doesn't know, tbh.

But with a man who lives a life of subterfuge it would be easy. Excuses for being on call at work.

 

[marynnu]

I'd be interested to know when exactly the interview with her friend took place, and how closely she and the rest of the group followed the trial. Do they all believe her innocent now I wonder.

 

[Marantz4250b]

and that statement says to me it was about superior control. JMO MOO.

But with a man who lives a life of subterfuge it would be easy. Excuses for being on call at work.

I think she'd know by now, though. She'd definitely jnow that he was at the same hospital at the time and would likely have put two and two together by now as there won't have been many doctors it could have been.

We may actually be doing the guy a dis-service here; perhaps he was separated or in the throes of divorce or something. We simply don't know.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I'd be interested to know when exactly the interview with her friend took place, and how closely she and the rest of the group followed the trial. Do they all believe her innocent now I wonder.

The interview was clearly before the verdicts were announced but perhaps when the press knew the early ones but couldn't say.

I have to say that the way that interview was presented was a bit disingenuous as it could give the impression that the friend didn't accept the verdict.

 

[Kemug]

There was a newspaper article circulating here (I think) a while back, a “happy birthday” notice for LL (I think it may have been her 21st?) to LL which looked like it was from her brothers (or half brothers?) I thought she had older siblings/her dads side from previous relationship. Can anyone recall that article?

[Unless, she is indeed an only child and that newspaper notice was actually from pets? Like the same birthday card pinned to her notice board in her kitchen from her cats, (wrote by her mother) with the words “mummy” on it.]

Sounds like she may have taken after her mother in her childlike ways - I could understand maybe a mother writing a letter on behalf of her daughter's pets if said daughter was a young child, but for an adult daughter? JMO

 

[Honeybirdette]

I agree that what drove her was far more complicated than a simple desire for attention and certainly not simply directed towards one person. The answers, if they are even identified, will be much more convoluted and grand. People love easy answers, though, so "attention seeking" or some variation of that will be what most people settle on, I think.

I know this isn’t going to be a popular opinion, but I don’t think she murdered because had this uncontrollable urge to harm innocent tiny babies. For me, I think it was more a means to an end for her.
She enjoyed the attention it gave her. For the first time in her life (we heard she wasn’t popular at school, doesn’t seem to have had much male attention etc) she was the centre of attention. from her colleagues, (you’re having such a bad run, are you okay? How are you?) from dr choc (poor lucy, here’s some chocolate for you) and she probably found it exciting and even thrilling. It gave her something to talk about all the time. she texted about it non stop. Even to her mum (just lost another one overnight, it’s so sad) almost like she was baiting for people to sympathise with her, tell her how strong she was, how good of a nurse she was. And they did exactly that!

 

[Kemug]

BM will never be able to talk due to the privileged position he is in with his client.

And not if he wants to continue having clients!

 

[Powermjp]

I live in Hereford, the parents have been getting abused at their house, even before the verdict.

Lucy attended yoga classes while on bail at a local spa here, the local newspaper are asking for info, seems like everyone else wants info on her.

Also found out my dad built an extension for the family, met LL as a toddler. So a long time ago now.

 

[Caroclaud]

Sorry I probably missed this, but can someone explain why the older Dr she was involved with was allowed his identity to be protected?

 

[Officer Dibble]

Sorry I probably missed this, but can someone explain why the older Dr she was involved with was allowed his identity to be protected?

He got in quick and protected his name through the courts I believe. It was mentioned yesterday but so many TV reports and newspaper articles I cannot remember where I heard or read it, but it stated he protected his name early on.

 

[iamshadow21]

In todays world; it can be unusual- however, it depends on their own moral values and that is completely normal. My own grandparents (as did my mother), announce christenings of one of my children and the reading of our calling of bands prior to our actual marriage. To me, no matter how well intended, it was unnecessary.
In the uk, for those who don’t know, church marriages have what’s known as “the calling of bands” prior to the marriage. (You can Google if you wish). This “notice” in the paper wasn’t and isn’t really a thing in my generation, but based on their views and morals etc of my mother and grandparents- to them it absolutely was a big deal.

EBM

It's banns, actually, with two n's.

Banns of marriage - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's about making a public announcement so that anyone who doesn't think the marriage should proceed can object.

MOO

 

[Tortoise]

Sorry I probably missed this, but can someone explain why the older Dr she was involved with was allowed his identity to be protected?

The judge made an order that protected the identity of all the witnesses, if they chose it, to obtain the best evidence from them. Excluding the expert witnesses of course.

He also made orders to protect the identities of the babies' families.

 

[katydid23]

I know this isn’t going to be a popular opinion, but I don’t think she murdered because had this uncontrollable urge to harm innocent tiny babies. For me, I think it was more a means to an end for her.
She enjoyed the attention it gave her. For the first time in her life (we heard she wasn’t popular at school, doesn’t seem to have had much male attention etc) she was the centre of attention. from her colleagues, (you’re having such a bad run, are you okay? How are you?) from dr choc (poor lucy, here’s some chocolate for you) and she probably found it exciting and even thrilling. It gave her something to talk about all the time. she texted about it non stop. Even to her mum (just lost another one overnight, it’s so sad) almost like she was baiting for people to sympathise with her, tell her how strong she was, how good of a nurse she was. And they did exactly that!

I think both things can be true. I think she had a deep compulsion but it was also a means to an end for her. In other words her deep desire and need for attention and praise drove her to commit these unforgivable acts.

It seemed like an uncontrollable urge in some ways, when you look at some cases. Like when she was away on vacation for 8 days in June of 2016, the the very morning she returns, she attacked baby O, a healthy triplet boy. And later that very same day she began her attacks upon his brother. And the following day, even though there was lots of suspicion growing and a group of doctors were demanding she be taken off the unit, she quickly assaults a 3rd child.

She seemed to be out of control at that point---acting recklessly, IMO.

But I totally agree that she was seeking praise and sympathy and was insatiable. JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

I know this isn’t going to be a popular opinion, but I don’t think she murdered because had this uncontrollable urge to harm innocent tiny babies. For me, I think it was more a means to an end for her.
She enjoyed the attention it gave her. For the first time in her life (we heard she wasn’t popular at school, doesn’t seem to have had much male attention etc) she was the centre of attention. from her colleagues, (you’re having such a bad run, are you okay? How are you?) from dr choc (poor lucy, here’s some chocolate for you) and she probably found it exciting and even thrilling. It gave her something to talk about all the time. she texted about it non stop. Even to her mum (just lost another one overnight, it’s so sad) almost like she was baiting for people to sympathise with her, tell her how strong she was, how good of a nurse she was. And they did exactly that!

Creating a feedback loop of attention, praise, and sympathy. Feeding off other people's emotional responses.

MOO

 

[Kemug]

I still know family who do that now.. you would be surprised at the ammount of cringy things even parents of their age in that period still do it..in all honesty, it’s not as outdated as you might think- depending on the morals that are passed down between generations. It’s not something I’ve personally done, my children are older now, but even as recent as 2000 my mother would not think twice about posting something similar to that of my grans era in a newspaper article. That was the world they knew, as did their parents/the grandparents. In some families it is still the norm here, not mine personally, but I still see if from parents of LL parents age group, even now.

Plus this sort of thing can be useful for those researching their family history (but that's another story!)

 

[notsure]

I'm not sure about that. I find it difficult to believe that his wife doesn't know, tbh.

Do we know for a fact that he was not divorced at the time of the relationship with LL?

 

[Rusty Braincells]

What took so long to come to a guilty verdict?

There were multiple cases, a huge amount of evidence, and the crimes were extremely serious. The jury was deciding whether to convict Lucy Letby as one of the worst child murderers imaginable and wanted to do justice to vulnerable babies who may have been killed or attacked when meant to be under NHS care, and their families. The trial itself was very long due to the number of crimes and complexity. The jury seem to have done their job diligently and not rushed.

I can’t understand any questioning of the jury, who heard all evidence (unlike us), taking all the time that they felt was appropriate, which is a timescale they are best-placed to know.