GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

[Eloise]

This case is without doubt the most horrific and appalling I’ve ever heard of. Apart from Letby’s obvious wickedness and malevolence, there is one aspect that really baffles me: How can it be that she apparently exhibited no strange or concerning behaviours during her childhood or young adulthood? From the little reading I’ve done, it appears that almost every serial killer has had some early life history of inflicting (and/or receiving) abuse or cruelty. There’s been not a single example of those behaviours in anything that’s been said or written about LL. Any thoughts?
JMO

I agree with the above poster that says given her parents seem deeply in denial, we might not find out if there were many signs.
There are fewer female serial killers than male, so maybe the typical male serial killer isn't something we can judge LL on perhaps. Girls can be better at masking (mimicking prosocial, "typical" behaviours) than boys, its why traditionally girls have been far less likely to be diagnosed with things like ASD. I'm not saying I think she has that, btw. I think masking as manipulation (rather than just trying to fit in so you're not socially isolated like ppl with ASD do) can be a thing for people with NPD, for example, which I think LL could possibly have. She definitely fits a lot of things about NPD, JMO.

 

[cottonweaver]

This case is without doubt the most horrific and appalling I’ve ever heard of. Apart from Letby’s obvious wickedness and malevolence, there is one aspect that really baffles me: How can it be that she apparently exhibited no strange or concerning behaviours during her childhood or young adulthood? From the little reading I’ve done, it appears that almost every serial killer has had some early life history of inflicting (and/or receiving) abuse or cruelty. There’s been not a single example of those behaviours in anything that’s been said or written about LL. Any thoughts?
JMO

Harold Shipman is one of the most prolific ' serial killers' ever known. Very well respected and well liked and integrated in his community. It took years to uncover any red flags in his past and even then there wasn't much at all ( Abuse of drugs, forging prescriptions early in his career and training.)

Early stages with LL, no-one is talking ( most pals claim to defend her) plus she was so young when she started killing so she has a very small backstory.
Will she even participate in any evaluations going forward?

Probably not.

AFAIK Ben Green's parents still support him in his ongoing attempts for review of his verdict Benjamin Geen - Wikipedia

 

[BuzzC]

I believe there was no verdict returned on a charge for that child, so if the prosecution choose to retry on the no verdict charges, they may get resolution in the future that they were denied today.

MOO

Fingers crossed.

I came across an article way back before the trial started that named the children who died and, for reasons I can’t go into, this one’s name is etched into my mind. I hope she gets (some form of) justice too.

 

[notsure]

I agree re parents in denial. Even so, the media have been digging constantly among LL’s childhood friends, colleagues, church associates, etc, and not one single small example has emerged. It’s strange.

This has bothered me too. Could she have hidden this evil streak her whole life, or did it develop in adulthood? We'll probably never know.

 

[cottonweaver]

Not that we've heard of. There may well have been things her parents picked up on but it's not like they would tell anyone as they seem firmly in denial.

That was such a strange thing to say on many levels ' Take me, I did it' or words to that effect when LL was arrested
Suggests that the mother at least accepts that a criminal was involved, even though parents don't accept that the criminal was LL

 

[Kemug]

I think, partly that may be because we have heard very little about her early life.

We may yet hear quite a lot, it may start to come out now. Before she was found to be guilty, some people may have chosen not to say something of their experience with her, for various reasons (eg they felt reluctant to do so while she might still have been acquitted, or just didn't want to get involved). There may be friends of her parents who didn't want to hurt them by saying what they may have known or witnessed, and if so, they may never say anything. There may also be people who think that there's no point in saying anything at this stage.

 

[Jw192]

This case is without doubt the most horrific and appalling I’ve ever heard of. Apart from Letby’s obvious wickedness and malevolence, there is one aspect that really baffles me: How can it be that she apparently exhibited no strange or concerning behaviours during her childhood or young adulthood? From the little reading I’ve done, it appears that almost every serial killer has had some early life history of inflicting (and/or receiving) abuse or cruelty. There’s been not a single example of those behaviours in anything that’s been said or written about LL. Any thoughts?
JMO

Many serial murderers have had seemingly "normal" upbringings, managed to maintain the facade of normality in their everyday lives in the eyes of others and didn't show any signs of what they were about to do/were doing.

Like the well known "signs" such as animals, fires, bed wetting have been debunked to an extent, instead it's usually signs of childhood abuse, solitary behaviour etc... But again many convicted serial murderers lead super normal lives on the outside as they become masters of deception. Take Rader for example, he was just a bit of an arsehead to many that knew him, yet he was a complete sadistic fruit loop!

I bet that there's still a lot more to come out about Letby, but if you look at what we know, there are signs there. She managed to manipulate almost everyone around her, even management to the point that they made consultants apologise to her. The texts are very telling, it's manipulation and gaslighting there in tangible form with her twisting and imo attempting to brainwash people into believing that the collapses were normal or "fate" y'know?

Like it's easy now to look and be like omg, but when it's you being toyed with and manipulated by a very very sneaky and clever seasoned manipulator, ofc you're gonna be like nah she was always sound when I spoke to her, because it's what she wanted you to think and believe.

 

[Elley Mae]

Is life sentence in UK for life? Or is it a minimum of years.

 

[Jw192]

Is life sentence in UK for life? Or is it a minimum of years.

A whole life order is life, like it's not very often they're dished out in the UK as they're kept for the worst of the worst.

She will never get out and will die in prison.

 

[Elley Mae]

Is life sentence in UK for life? Or is it a minimum of years.

Never mind just read she is in for the rest of her life. Great news.

 

[Kemug]

I'm never going to be able to catch up now, so my apologies if somebody has already said this - it's just about the photo of gorgeous little Asa. He is just so beautiful that it tugs at your heart strings, then you think of the other little babies who died, and you want to cry. And little Asa's parents are very very fortunate to still have their little boy with them, IMO, I for one am pretty sure that LL attacked him too.

 

[Taskforce88]

Whole life orders are what are given out to those that would have received a death sentence. When they got rid of the death penalty the government reassured the public that those who would have been put to death previously would never get out. Of course that isn't the case.

 

[Elley Mae]

A whole life order is life, like it's not very often they're dished out in the UK as they're kept for the worst of the worst.

She will never get out and will die in prison.

I didn’t post here, it was too much for me just knowing what she was accused of, glad its over and she can rot.

Jmo

 

[Sundial]

<ADMIN NOTE: Name calling is not allowed.>

The top professionals in the field will be debating this creepbag for the rest of history.

Who knows why she did what she did and part of me doubts that we will ever know. I have my own off the cuff opinions on her, of course off the cuff as there are no psych reports etc... to go over, but from what we are made privy too, a huge part of me believes that the actual killings/attacks, the babies, they meant FA to her in the grand scale. She got off on the aftermaths. I believe that the parents were her targets (maybe a hatred for her own?), she studied them pre and post attack, played god deciding which ones were worthy of being parents and which weren't.
Toying with all the people around her like a cat and an asolute grief thief.

I believe that her upbringing had a huge hand in it too. Her parents wrapped that lass in cotton wool and in my opinion gave her such a god complex. Little perfect Lucy, little clever Lucy, Lucy can't do no wrong. I hate it looking like I'm placing some blame elsewhere as it was her and her alone who did this, but their actions show to me that she believed in their hype. They treat her like a child, even in adulthood, the whole dad contacting the hospital, rearranging the teddies in her room, her mam shouting I did it, take me... they mollycoddled her, and as a result of her upbringing, she developed the tools she needed in order to manipulate those around her into believing that she was an angel.
In her note that people have analysed and picked apart, there was always the one part that stood out to me, a part that many of the innocence brigade clung onto as a tool in their arguments, but to me it was the most telling... "I haven't done anything wrong" I truly believe that she believed that, when she wrote it and even now. She will have gone her whole life being told by her parents that she can do no wrong and even after attacking babies she believes that her, sweet Lucy still hasn't done anything wrong and can never do anything wrong.

Her life, despite her having a bit of a social life, was boring af, "beige" is the best way to describe her. Old fashioned and beige and she thrived off the attention and excitement that the attacks gave her. I agree with Shadow so much in that she buzzed off the grief and postmortem aspects. I don't buy that Dr Choc was in anyway a reason for her crimes, he was simply another toy for sneaky feline Letby to play with and manipulate.

Anyways I'm m proper babbling and not making as much sense as I intent to as I'm typing this in a toilet cubicle when I'm not meant to be here ha, but yah pure god complex and she will never ever ever admit to doing anything wrong, because again she doesn't believe she is capable of wrong.

Very well summarised: In one of the notes, she mentioned she wasn’t good enough and references people not standing by her, or those who leave (I can’t recall the exact ones she uses), but now it reminds me of that awkward ability she has in forming deep, proper meaningful friendships and relationships. Her awkward group of “mis-matches” states the report. The label “innocent one” on a Mr men cartoon spoof her friends tagged her on social media (now circling the press, this is a cartoon with “Little Miss innocent” from the mr men.

She’s followed a herd, wanting, trying desperately to fit in, whilst needing the strokes of affection, “poor Lucy” and keeping up the charade of false pretences. Her note is very telling; she recognises how difficult freindships/relationships are; she wrote about it. When she’s messaging colleagues, dr choc, she’s manipulating, gaslighting, calculating- desperate to be liked, loved, adored..this sweet princess act who can’t regulate normal social cues and becomes angry and “vulnerable, meeky” pity party or drops people and friends when she can’t get the response she needs.

When you look at those messages to colleagues she was sending; it’s striking how quickly she damages a freindship (the one with JJK over room 1 discussion) and bounces onto the next person. The one who will stroke her pretty head, trying to fit in and be accepted. Even the parents stated that same awkwardness to her. She has been angry and bitter internally, bitter and twisted at other people’s happiness, families, relationships, babies, friendships, the “me I’m here look at me saving the day” yet also playing the vulnerable, strange infant-like victim persona when the heat gets too much, when confronted.

She wanted what other people had so badly whilst having these evil twisted compulsions to cause so much heartache. Internally she is a dark, disturbing and warped piece of work made worse by her parents little princess on the pedestal. She did this and she knew it.

 

[Tweet57]

The 22 charges and the jury's decision:

Count 1 - murder of Child A, a baby boy, on June 8, 2015: GUILTY 10-1 MAJORITY
Count 2 - attempted murder of Child B (twin of Child A), a baby girl, between June 8-11, 2015: GUILTY 10-1 MAJORITY
Count 3 - murder of Child C, a baby boy, on June 14, 2015: GUILTY 10-1 MAJORITY
Count 4 - murder of Child D, a baby girl, on June 22, 2015: GUILTY 10-1 MAJORITY
Count 5 - murder of Child E, a baby boy, on August 4, 2015: GUILTY 10-1 MAJORITY
Count 6 - attempted murder of Child F (twin of Child E), a baby boy, on August 5, 2015: GUILTY UNANIMOUSLY
Count 7 - attempted murder of Child G, a baby girl, on September 7, 2015: GUILTY 10-1 MAJORITY
Count 8 - attempted murder of Child G on September 21, 2015 at about 10.15am: GUILTY 10-1 MAJORITY
Count 9 - attempted murder of Child G on September 21, 2015 at about 3.30pm: NOT GUILTY
Count 10 - attempted murder of Child H, a baby girl, on September 26, 2015: NOT GUILTY
Count 11 - attempted murder of Child H on September 27, 2015: NO VERDICT
Count 12 - murder of Child I, a baby girl, on October 23, 2015: GUILTY 10-1 MAJORITY
Count 13 - attempted murder of Child J, a baby girl, on November 27, 2015: NO VERDICT
Count 14 - attempted murder of Child K, a baby girl, on February 17, 2016: NO VERDICT
Count 15 - attempted murder of Child L, a baby boy, on April 9, 2016: GUILTY UNANIMOUSLY
Count 16 - attempted murder of Child M (twin of Child L), a baby boy, on April 9, 2016: GUILTY 10-1 MAJORITY
Count 17 - attempted murder of Child N, a baby boy, on June 3, 2016: GUILTY 10-1 MAJORITY
Count 18 - attempted murder of Child N on June 15, 2016, at about 7.15am-7.30am: NO VERDICT
Count 19 - attempted murder of Child N on June 15, 2016, at about 3pm: NO VERDICT
Count 20 - murder of Child O, a baby boy, on June 23, 2016: GUILTY UNANIMOUSLY
Count 21 - murder of Child P (triplet brother of Child O), a baby boy, on June 24, 2016: GUILTY 10-1 MAJORITY
Count 22 - attempted murder of Child Q, a baby boy, on June 25, 2016: NO VERDICT

Nurse Lucy Letby found guilty of seven baby murders and seven attempted murders

Lucy Letby, a former Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal nurse, has been found guilty of murdering and poisoning babies between June 2015 and June…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

With the verdicts of GUILTY 10-1 MAJORITY, I wonder if it was the same dissenter with each count?

 

[cottonweaver]

Has anybody who followed the case closely come across any ex boyfriends?

I appreciate that if you were an ex you wouldn't want to advertise that but it's just that I get the feeling she's never had a relationship. She also comes across as quite asexual to me, even when she's taking part in pranks on nights out with the dance pole and when I'm reading about her loving salsa dancing.

First known murder age 25. Old associates said they'd never heard of any boyfriends.
Do you all think the relationship with the registrar was a cynical one or real? ( Developing support and protection in the right places )

 

[Sundial]

This case is without doubt the most horrific and appalling I’ve ever heard of. Apart from Letby’s obvious wickedness and malevolence, there is one aspect that really baffles me: How can it be that she apparently exhibited no strange or concerning behaviours during her childhood or young adulthood? From the little reading I’ve done, it appears that almost every serial killer has had some early life history of inflicting (and/or receiving) abuse or cruelty. There’s been not a single example of those behaviours in anything that’s been said or written about LL. Any thoughts?
JMO

Because they are one of the most disturbing of their kind- cleverly slinking under the radar like a snake. I have encountered something similar with from someone I knew who had a persona just like LL, and believe me when I tell you how difficult it is to elaborate on “who” they really are.. “Nice”, sweet like sugar.. but there is another side to them that when confronted- they gaslight and claim bullying, nothing wrong, the tears etc.
They are some of the most scary people out there because not only is it difficult to prove; but they are extremely apt in keeping up the charade, from a very early age. Her behaviour is quite similar to that I have encountered- you might see occasional mask slipping as I noticed in LL (eg, again her reaction to JJK with room 1 when she couldn’t get her own way), they are very manipulating, disturbing people indeed. Psychologist reports are claiming she doesn’t fit a profile of a SK, but I’ll be honest; from my experience it’s not that they don’t fit a “profile” or the “norm”, but that THESE types of people are like snakes, very difficult to catch out. Even more so to prove who they truly are.

 

[notsure]

With the verdicts of GUILTY 10-1 MAJORITY, I wonder if it was the same dissenter with each count?

I've wondered the same thing. Another thing we'll never know, I suppose.

 

[kittythehare]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1693165222385610908

 

[iamshadow21]

Has anybody who followed the case closely come across any ex boyfriends?

I appreciate that if you were an ex you wouldn't want to advertise that but it's just that I get the feeling she's never had a relationship. She also comes across as quite asexual to me, even when she's taking part in pranks on nights out with the dance pole and when I'm reading about her loving salsa dancing.

First known murder age 25. Old associates said they'd never heard of any boyfriends.
Do you all think the relationship with the registrar was a cynical one or real? ( Developing support and protection in the right places )

I have not heard of any other relationships.

I think it could be both. I think there's plenty of evidence she was feeding off his attention and manipulating him in the same way she did with her other coworkers, and using him to spy on the other doctors who were suspicious of her, but I think like a lot of people having a relationship with a person married to somebody else, she may have thought that she could get him to leave his family for her eventually. She wouldn't be the first to assume that she'd be worth him giving up his marriage, his house, his reputation, possibly even his job. Her narcissism possibly even convinced her it was a done deal, that she'd just have to crook her finger if and when she wanted him to herself. Unfortunately, they virtually never do. That sort wants to have their cake and to eat it, too. If she hadn't done such horrible things, I might even feel sorry for her, but I most certainly don't. Her hopes for that relationship are possibly the most relatably human thing about her that I've seen.

MOO