GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #10

[Bathsheba]

Two things re the lack of sexual assault. If it was a kidnap gone wrong then although a sexual assault was planned, her dying might have stopped it happening. Also remember NM is also charged with voyeurism (not involving Becky) which implies he may get sexually aroused just from looking alone. Might even be that Becky caught him watching her too and he panicked when she confronted him, killed her and made up the whole kidnap story.

Yes, that's a good theory that I haven't heard elsewhere yet. I could definitely see that being true. With SH there in attendance too.

 

[Gigi-G]

So he's being arrested in connection with BW's disappearance but he's worried about getting in trouble for illegally watching TV? What the hay, that's beyond strange!

My thoughts exactly.... very ODD to throw that out there. Defo a rouse to hide something. IMO.

 

[Ironside]

Two things re the lack of sexual assault. If it was a kidnap gone wrong then although a sexual assault was planned, her dying might have stopped it happening.

I think NM and SH jointly set out to sexually assault BW but it didn't happen as she had her period.

 

[Wallace]

My thoughts exactly.... very ODD to throw that out there. Defo a rouse to hide something. IMO.

A rather lame attempt to come across as an otherwise honest citizen who was guilty of nothing more than avoiding paying for a licence that should have been phased out years ago.

 

[Edinlass]

As people have repeatedly said his story just does not add up for me either, I wish the prosecution would pick away at the many holes we here are Websleuths have been discussing, it's not as if it's complex, it's pretty basic contradictions on NM & SH's part.

I feel today and yesterday we have found out nothing new to what we have already heard from statements etc.

 

[Clio]

As people have repeatedly said his story just does not add up for me either, I wish the prosecution would pick away at the many holes we here are Websleuths have been discussing, it's not as if it's complex, it's pretty basic contradictions on NM & SH's part.

I feel today and yesterday we have found out nothing new to what we have already heard from statements etc.

Prosecution haven't cross examined him yet

 

[Wallace]

As people have repeatedly said his story just does not add up for me either, I wish the prosecution would pick away at the many holes we here are Websleuths have been discussing, it's not as if it's complex, it's pretty basic contradictions on NM & SH's part.

I feel today and yesterday we have found out nothing new to what we have already heard from statements etc.

It does seem odd that there hasn't been a great deal of attempt to pick holes in his rather fragmented and ridiculous story.

Perhaps the prosecution believe that his story is so preposterous that no one would believe it.

I think the case against NM is strong and that they don't believe that they need to discredit him as he has done a great job of doing that to himself.

If they are going to go after anyone it will be SH. The forensic evidence against her is weak. Her defence have an interesting gamble to take. Put SH on the stand and risk her being taken apart in cross examination OR rely on NM's testimony (which is frankly unbelievable.

 

[Wallace]

Prosecution haven't cross examined him yet

Shows how much attention I am paying then [emoji1]

 

[YidArmyRach]

I still don't believe their excuse for going round to Becky's house that day either. To drop off a cake tin they borrowed. If they were Anjie's carers, they would have been going round to that house most days of the week, surely. So what's the rush to return a cake tin? Especially as they knew Anjie wasn't going to be there, as she had a hospital appointment.

Yet, despite knowing that Anjie was going to be out, and clearly had no urgent rush to get it back, they still took time out of their day to drop it off. Why not just wait and take it with you the next time you were going to the house?

Its very strange that they decided to return the cake tin at the very time that Becky was home, but nobody else was......... but ended up staying till the evening, even though they were just dropping it off.

 

[Wallace]

I still don't believe their excuse for going round to Becky's house that day either. To drop off a cake tin they borrowed. If they were Anjie's carers, they would have been going round to that house most days in the week, surely. So what's the rush to return a cake tin?

Despite knowing that Anjie was going to be out at a hospital appointment, and clearly had no urgent rush to get it back, they still took time out of their day to drop it off. Why not just wait and take it with you the next time you were going to the house?

Its very strange that they decided to return the cake tin at the very time that Becky was home, and nobody else was.

The cake tin excuse has always been thin.

Making a specific trip at a time when they know that his mum won't be around to let them in. When according to their version of their schedule they would have been going around to her house the next day. Not impossible but a little odd.

Did they tell AG that they were going to call in that day? I can't remember. If so don't you find it a little odd that they decided to kidnap Becky at a time when AG knew they had gone to the house? As this case goes on, I am starting to wonder if NM and SH were the only people involved in this plan.

 

[Gigi-G]

It does seem odd that there hasn't been a great deal of attempt to pick holes in his rather fragmented and ridiculous story.

Perhaps the prosecution believe that his story is so preposterous that no one would believe it.

I think the case against NM is strong and that they don't believe that they need to discredit him as he has done a great job of doing that to himself.

If they are going to go after anyone it will be SH. The forensic evidence against her is weak. Her defence have an interesting gamble to take. Put SH on the stand and risk her being taken apart in cross examination OR rely on NM's testimony (which is frankly unbelievable.

I hope they do get SH on the stand. As she was charged the same as NM.
I thought that those charged had to be questioned in court.

So is there a chance she may not stand?

 

[Clio]

Claire Hayhurst ‏@clairehayhurst · 13 mins13 minutes ago
Nathan Matthews is back giving evidence after the lunch break. He's being cross examined by Sean Hammond, for James Ireland #beckywatts

Darren Little Verified account  ‏@DarrenLittleSky · 13 mins13 minutes ago
NM on the days after he killed #beckywatts says trying to conceal what he had done and act natural he was "doing what I had to do"

 

[Clio]

ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial · 12 mins12 minutes ago
Matthews says he was 'panicking' when he called Karl Demetrius because he knew he didn't have much time before the police came #beckywatts

Claire Hayhurst ‏@clairehayhurst · 12 mins12 minutes ago
Matthews: offered his friend Karl Demetrius £10k to look after some packages "for a few days". Told him not to look inside them.

Claire Hayhurst ‏@clairehayhurst · 11 mins11 minutes ago
Matthews: When phoned KD was "panicking". "I was panicking before but I couldn't show I was panicking," he tells court. Asked for a van.

ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial · 7 mins7 minutes ago
Matthews: 'When I rang Karl Demetrius I was panicking. I was panicking before, but I couldn't show I was panicking' #beckwatts

 

[Ironside]

I hope they do get SH on the stand. As she was charged the same as NM.
I thought that those charged had to be questioned in court.

So is there a chance she may not stand?

She does not have to take the stand.

 

[Clio]

Claire Hayhurst ‏@clairehayhurst · 6 mins6 minutes ago
Matthews describing how James Ireland and Karl Demetrius gave him and Hoare a lift home. "I was worried but I wasn't showing it," he says.

Claire Hayhurst ‏@clairehayhurst · 4 mins4 minutes ago
Matthews: KD and JI then gave me a lift to their work in Filton. They dropped me outside and came back out with a van.

Claire Hayhurst ‏@clairehayhurst · 1 min1 minute ago
They returned to Matthews' house. JI stayed in hall. Matthews and KD went upstairs for "just enough for me to pack a suitcase" #beckywatts

 

[Gigi-G]

I still don't believe their excuse for going round to Becky's house that day either. To drop off a cake tin they borrowed. If they were Anjie's carers, they would have been going round to that house most days of the week, surely. So what's the rush to return a cake tin? Especially as they knew Anjie wasn't going to be there, as she had a hospital appointment.

Yet, despite knowing that Anjie was going to be out, and clearly had no urgent rush to get it back, they still took time out of their day to drop it off. Why not just wait and take it with you the next time you were going to the house?

Its very strange that they decided to return the cake tin at the very time that Becky was home, but nobody else was......... but ended up staying till the evening, even though they were just dropping it off.

It was half term for Schools/colleges etc.
I'm guessing this is why NM & SH took the day as opportunity plus the fact AG had hospital appointment n DG was working. Phoning ahead to see if BW were there.

 

[YidArmyRach]

The cake tin excuse has always been thin.

Making a specific trip at a time when they know that his mum won't be around to let them in. When according to their version of their schedule they would have been going around to her house the next day. Not impossible but a little odd.

Did they tell AG that they were going to call in that day? I can't remember. If so don't you find it a little odd that they decided to kidnap Becky at a time when AG knew they had gone to the house? As this case goes on, I am starting to wonder if NM and SH were the only people involved in this plan.

Its just insane. IF (and I don't believe this for a second) NH's plan had gone according to how he is telling it, Becky would have been kidnapped, taken to a wooded area at some point after SH and child had been dropped home, scared half to death then returned home (presumably) ........... and he didn't expect Anjie to tell the police that NM had arranged to be at the house that day? Obviously (sorry) he'd have been no 1 suspect, or questioned as to his movements, which would have been proven to be incorrect.

Even if Becky didn't go to the police, he didn't think that Anjie would mention to Becky that NM had been to the house that day, or perhaps ask if Becky had seen him. So at that point, Becky would have put 2 and 2 together and guessed who had kidnapped her. No matter what happened, the cake tin would have placed him at the scene of the abduction.

 

[Tortoise]

Any ideas as to what this might be?

<rsbm>

Mmm. First off I think the kidnap was definitely a part of their plan. He had all the kit/tools with him - unless he always kept in his boot just in case. I doubt they would have attempted a sexual assault in Becky's room.

But, having said that, is there any proof he actually did have any of those things with him? Let me think, the mask (no), the hand cuffs (no) the stun gun (poss- they bought batteries on the way) tape (no) suitcase (no). I can't see a kidnap happening with just a stun gun and nothing to restrain her with.

So I do think it was a kidnap plan. I think on balance they would have taken her to some remote spot or wooded area, rather than their home. And perhaps they were just too stupid to think through how it would end. Perhaps the black bag was to place over Becky's head but she would see them approaching her with it. Mask or no mask, she would know it was him. She would hear them/him talking to her.

Was it for rape? Was it for revenge/violence/a 'lesson' to scare her?

Unless he gives a true confession I doubt anyone will ever know his/their intentions. It's just too hard to put yourself in the mind of someone like that. He seems to be a perfectionist in terms of his wrapping up and decontamination. So it is hard to think that he didn't actually have a plan after kidnapping her.

As far as what I think may actually have happened to Becky - a very violent and prolonged restraint and suffocation involving two people pulling her around and pinning her down. a hand over her mouth because she was screaming, to stop their daughter hearing anything. I think the final pinching of the nostrils was a deliberate act to kill her when SH flipped. Somehow I think NM had more of a hang-up, for want of a better word, about not causing really serious harm, than SH. I think she is the cold psychopath if there is one between them. I do see him suffering emotionally, I don't see an ounce of it with her.

 

[ColourPurple]

I still don't believe their excuse for going round to Becky's house that day either. To drop off a cake tin they borrowed. If they were Anjie's carers, they would have been going round to that house most days of the week, surely. So what's the rush to return a cake tin? Especially as they knew Anjie wasn't going to be there, as she had a hospital appointment.

Yet, despite knowing that Anjie was going to be out, and clearly had no urgent rush to get it back, they still took time out of their day to drop it off. Why not just wait and take it with you the next time you were going to the house?

Its very strange that they decided to return the cake tin at the very time that Becky was home, but nobody else was......... but ended up staying till the evening, even though they were just dropping it off.

IIRC SH said the cake tin was Angie's mothers and it was Angies' mother who was going with Angie to hospital that day. Not sure why they couldn't just drop it off at Angie's mothers another day

 

[Wallace]

I hope they do get SH on the stand. As she was charged the same as NM.
I thought that those charged had to be questioned in court.

So is there a chance she may not stand?

Part of the right not to incriminate yourself, it is up to the prosecution to prove their case, you don't need to say a thing if you don't want to.

While that right is almost always best used when dealing with Police interviews, it can backfire spectacularly when used in court.

Ultimately it is down to the accused. The defence will advise them on what they believe is the best tactic but their clients don't always listen.

In this case I think SH and the defence have a very difficult choice, both options have equal numbers of pros and cons.