GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #4

[Wallace]

Just curious: prior to the murder charge, the 'kidnap' thing - what evidence and where was it that led LE to think that RW was kidnapped? Any thoughts?

Total lack of any sightings after she supposedly walked out the front door.

Statements from her family that she wouldn't walk to the shops alone, extremely shy etc.

Sudden lack of online activity / phone usage.

She hadn't taken spare clothes and left purse so not a run away.

Texts planning to meet boyfriend later in the day.

 

[Alyce]

Ok - Becky came home and went upstairs and showered.

Step Mum went to hospital.

Mum doesn't need to be in the house to know that she showered, over things would show that - use of shampoo, wet towels, etc.

If Nathan worked nights, he may go round to see mum for breakfast or just to drop things in. In the UK some people are collected for hospital appointments. So she goes off to hospital and he is left in the house, whilst she is in the shower.

He takes his chance to assault her and she is killed in the house. Loaded into the Zafira on the drive (where the Land Rover is parked).

He drives to his friends mums run down house, where she is partially dismembered.

He returns home and tells girlfriend he's been out making £ with the boys, but obviously due to criminality can't tell the police the truth so she covers for him.

The body lays in the other place partially cut up, when they are arrested. The others are told of the body by one of the 4 charged today, so agree to get rid of it but fail to do so.

JMO.

Sounds like a very plausible explanation....

the only parts I would perhaps change are

Becky came home at 8am........ a rather early time, imo, to return from a sleep over with a pal,but perhaps the friend was due to go somewhere that day, that didnt include BW and/or one of friend's parents dropped her back home on their way to work ( knowing how she didnt like to be out on her own ).
Anyway, she comes home about 8am and according to step mum, - goes into the shower at that time.

NW didnt work nights I dont think, he did takeaway deliveries in the evening, so would not be a case of finishing work at say 7am and then going on to step mums.
I agree re the collection of step mother for hospital. Quite normal thing to happen if she had regular appointments and I doubt she would want to drive herself, being as she was possibly having a treatment when at the hospital.

I dont think NW would use the KD/DDs mothers house, more likely to go straight to KDs house.

Rest of the scenario, I can well believe....

Ah, except the charge starts from Sunday February 22, which leads me to think that RWs body was not at the Barton Court address before this time..... that means possibly in the car boot prior to this.
So body is left at Barton Court on Sunday Feb 22 and then car is taken up to Wilton Close and left there, which ties in with neighbours comments that it was definately there from Monday 22nd, possibly earlier.

 

[Alyce]

Karl Demetrius, 29 and his girlfriend, Jaydene Parsons, 23, were charged with assisting an offender after the 16-year-old's cut up remains were found in their home.

IN their home? I kinda thought the remains were found in the yard/garden, not inside their home. If this is true then I can only think that the process of refrigeration/freezing must have taken place - a cadaver in a house for several days? Jmo.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rial-date-set-stepbrother-accused-murder.html

Could be the usual *casual* journalism and * in their home * is actually translated to in their garden shed....

Otherwise I dread to think ............they have a child ........ it doesnt bear thinking about

 

[Wallace]

Could be the usual *casual* journalism and * in their home * is actually translated to in their garden shed....

Otherwise I dread to think ............they have a child ........ it doesnt bear thinking about

I agree it could be a substitution of at for in.

Found at the home instead of in the home.

Could of course be both.

 

[Supernovae]

Karl Demetrius, 29 and his girlfriend, Jaydene Parsons, 23, were charged with assisting an offender after the 16-year-old's cut up remains were found in their home.

IN their home? I kinda thought the remains were found in the yard/garden, not inside their home. If this is true then I can only think that the process of refrigeration/freezing must have taken place - a cadaver in a house for several days? Jmo.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rial-date-set-stepbrother-accused-murder.html

Maybe, maybe not, I think you can rely too much on journalistic precision.

 

[Wallace]

Snap, lol.

 

[Kaly99]

I had assumed the missing reprint to LE was the 19/20th and the missing appeals we're ongoing from well before the 23rd? That was pretty far in to the missing appeals wasn't it? Please correct me if I'm wrong?

I was going by the timeline I found here which suggests her father and grandmother made an appeal for her to return home on the 23rd and the police appealed to local communities to help find her on the 24th. Always a possibility it's not accurate, though.

ETA: OK, so I found this timeline on the Bristol Post website which is more detailed: it says the first police appeal was on the 22nd, so the Sunday. The media gradually pick up on the story over the next few days.

 

[emlou1980]

So do I. But if he was known to have been in the house (although I take jigzy's point that it wasn't disclosed who was there), it's difficult to see how an alibi could have helped. In fact since Becky was missing for a considerable time, how would anyone know the crucial time when an alibi would be needed?

He could have told police he left the house a lot earlier than he actually did, say right after AG left. And maybe that's where SH provided the alibi, saying he was home with her by a certain time that morning when in fact he wasn't. But obviously this is all speculation.

 

[mayelf]

Part of it I wonder if Nathan didn't want Shauna to know what had happened and he risked involving 4 other people instead of going to his own home to conceal her body? Otherwise why not just do it all on his own, instead of risking getting caught by involving so many more people?

 

[Cherwell]

He could have told police he left the house a lot earlier than he actually did, say right after AG left. And maybe that's where SH provided the alibi, saying he was home with her by a certain time that morning when in fact he wasn't. But obviously this is all speculation.

It can only take a minute to kill somebody though. I can't seen how that would put him in the clear.

 

[jigzy]

Maybe, maybe not, I think you can rely too much on journalistic precision.

I take your point, but have the LE stated anywhere that the remains were found in the yard/garden/shed/any other external place at that address? We saw pics of a forensic tent outside the property where the body parts were found, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the point of interest was external to that property. Jmo.

 

[Wallace]

Sounds like a very plausible explanation....

the only parts I would perhaps change are

Becky came home at 8am........ a rather early time, imo, to return from a sleep over with a pal,but perhaps the friend was due to go somewhere that day, that didnt include BW and/or one of friend's parents dropped her back home on their way to work ( knowing how she didnt like to be out on her own ).
Anyway, she comes home about 8am and according to step mum, - goes into the shower at that time.

NW didnt work nights I dont think, he did takeaway deliveries in the evening, so would not be a case of finishing work at say 7am and then going on to step mums.
I agree re the collection of step mother for hospital. Quite normal thing to happen if she had regular appointments and I doubt she would want to drive herself, being as she was possibly having a treatment when at the hospital.

I dont think NW would use the KD/DDs mothers house, more likely to go straight to KDs house.

Rest of the scenario, I can well believe....

Ah, except the charge starts from Sunday February 22, which leads me to think that RWs body was not at the Barton Court address before this time..... that means possibly in the car boot prior to this.
So body is left at Barton Court on Sunday Feb 22 and then car is taken up to Wilton Close and left there, which ties in with neighbours comments that it was definately there from Monday 22nd, possibly earlier.

I get the strong impression of a bunch of people slowly painting themselves into a corner.

I think by that date it would have been obvious to Police that this wasn't a run away.

Surveillance may have made it difficult to move.

 

[Wallace]

It can only take a minute to kill somebody though. I can't seen how that would put him in the clear.

Which is probably why they focused on him from an early stage.

 

[Wallace]

Part of it I wonder if Nathan didn't want Shauna to know what had happened and he risked involving 4 other people instead of going to his own home to conceal her body? Otherwise why not just do it all on his own, instead of risking getting caught by involving so many more people?

See post #533

 

[Insp.Dots]

They have been charged and named. Justice must be seen to be done. Would you rather that people were charged and remanded in custody in secret?[/QUOTE]

Naming when charged is one thing but they were named in several tabloids and on social media BEFORE being charged. That in my opinion is risky, again Christopher Jefferies had his life turned upside down.

 

[Wallace]

They have been charged and named. Justice must be seen to be done. Would you rather that people were charged and remanded in custody in secret?

Naming when charged is one thing but they were named in several tabloids and on social media BEFORE being charged. That in my opinion is risky, again Christopher Jefferies had his life turned upside down.[/QUOTE]
True but look at the difference in the way the mainstream media handled the articles.

With NM, SH etc The Daily Mail was full of quotes from people saying they didn't believe they did it, they were decent people etc.

Contrast that with what was said about CJ. Ex tennants claiming he was a creepy privacy invader, ex pupils claiming he was a weirdo and editorial making him sound like a sick pervert.

 

[emlou1980]

It can only take a minute to kill somebody though. I can't seen how that would put him in the clear.

A minute to kill, yes, but a lot longer to dispose of a body. If SH's alibi put him back at home with her by say 10.40 that morning, that wouldn't have given him time.

 

[jigzy]

Total lack of any sightings after she supposedly walked out the front door.

Statements from her family that she wouldn't walk to the shops alone, extremely shy etc.

Sudden lack of online activity / phone usage.

She hadn't taken spare clothes and left purse so not a run away.

Texts planning to meet boyfriend later in the day.

Sorry, I should have made it clearer in my query (which was: prior to the murder charge, the 'kidnap' thing - what evidence and where was it that led LE to think that RW was kidnapped?) that I meant kidnapped by NM. Obviously the murder charge is the talking point now, but at that time the LE was talking 'kidnap', as in taking RW and holding her captive, I assume, as that is my understanding.

None of the things you have listed would necessarily prove that NM kidnapped RW. I was wondering if signs of a struggle were evident somewhere that conclusively showed that RW was taken by NM and did not go willingly. I was wondering where that somewhere was - I'm thinking signs of an attack and struggle at RW's home? In the vehicle? On NM's clothing? Rambling now, will quit as I'm not sure where I'm going with this.

 

[Cherwell]

Naming when charged is one thing but they were named in several tabloids and on social media BEFORE being charged. That in my opinion is risky, again Christopher Jefferies had his life turned upside down.

Yes, and one person was named who has NOT been charged.

True but look at the difference in the way the mainstream media handled the articles.

With NM, SH etc The Daily Mail was full of quotes from people saying they didn't believe they did it, they were decent people etc.

Contrast that with what was said about CJ. Ex tennants claiming he was a creepy privacy invader, ex pupils claiming he was a weirdo and editorial making him sound like a sick pervert.

I still think the "ex pupils claiming he was a weirdo" were fictitious people made up by tabloid journalists. There were various named ex-pupils who spoke highly of him.

 

[Cherwell]

A minute to kill, yes, but a lot longer to dispose of a body. If SH's alibi put him back at home with her by say 10.40 that morning, that wouldn't have given him time.

He might have left it in the car boot initially.