GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #5

[e-sherlockholmes]

http://m.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-Wa...nager-8217-s/story-27953184-detail/story.html

Interesting piece from the Bristol Post - this article states that SH was in the Garden while NM was murdering Becky.

Also that a pregnancy related Google search was done by SH or NM - as someone who's been pregnant, I struggle to comprehend that a women could committ such acts as murder/kidnap while pregnant.
However, I CAN kind of understand her helping to clean up, thinking that she was protecting NM and saving herself from being left alone and pregnant, especially if she didn't like Becky.

How far along was she when she was pregnant? She's no delicate flower until she is late into the pregnancy. Anyway, I think the male suspect is probably the meat head that does the dirty work. I think the murder was an accidental one, as they probably did not intend for her to die at that very moment, since evidence shows they were ill prepared, e.g. leaving the bloody fingerprint. Although, they may have still had sinister plans for Becky nonetheless, but it would have been at a later time. After all, after you cross the point of no return of kidnapping her, its not like they will ever let her go tell the authorities on them. So I think they always intended for her to die.

Still, if the female suspect had urged and manipulated the male suspect into commit violent crime and doing all the physical labor, she is the mastermind and just as complicit as he was IMO.

 

[Cherwell]

What makes you so certain that SH was the main instigator?

 

[mrazda71]

You can be a 'delicate flower' at any stage of pregnancy physically, but I was talking about psychologically speaking - mentally, when you're pregnant is NOT the time you have murder or kidnap on your mind unless for specific reasons.
I also don't agree with the Perfect princess Becky V the fat ugly Shauna image you have ...
We've also heard already as part of witness statements that it was NM that was the controlling one of the relationship.

 

[Cherwell]

I also don't agree with the Perfect princess Becky V the fat ugly Shauna image you have .

Yes, it's all subjective of course, but to me they both look like averagely attractive girls. Neither is strikingly beautiful or plain.

 

[Retribution]

SH didnt manipulate NM into doing what he did, SH has no sway over NM at all. NM is the one in control of everything in the relationship. If NM told SH to jump off a bridge, she would ask "how high". She would like/dislike anyone NM did, she is heavily influenced by him. They are both complicit though. Imo.

 

[Retribution]

Originally Posted by mrazda71
"I also don't agree with the Perfect princess Becky V the fat ugly Shauna image you have ."

spot on

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

You can be a 'delicate flower' at any stage of pregnancy physically, but I was talking about psychologically speaking - mentally, when you're pregnant is NOT the time you have murder or kidnap on your mind unless for specific reasons.
I also don't agree with the Perfect princess Becky V the fat ugly Shauna image you have ...
We've also heard already as part of witness statements that it was NM that was the controlling one of the relationship.

Well, your body undergoes changes immediately after getting pregnant, but to me, you're physically not a delicate flower during the first trimester. I'm not sure how far along the female suspect is.

I'm not sure I agree with a sweeping generalization that pregnant women don't have the mental capacity to engage in criminality or exhibit sociopathic tendencies. Plenty of pregnant women have planned and committed murder among other crime.

Well, I based that on psych profiling.

You know, they said that about Karla Homolka too. Poor battered woman. Controlling husband. Husband directed everything. She was manipulated. She was an unwilling participant forced into doing everything the evil husband had wanted. Everyone believed that. That was until the tapes surfaced showing how complicit she was and how much of a willing participant she was. Bernardo committed a string of rape but never murder. Once Bernardo met Homolka, they started to murder people almost right away.

I remember early on in the case when Becky was first missing. I learned about this case through the Daily Mail. I got a hold of the female suspect's facebook posts at the time. Even back then I remember it was rather fake and awkward. I suspected something was up at that point. Of course, now it is made clear she knew Becky had died all along even as she was making bogus FB posts showing fake concern for her well being. To me, the female suspect comes across as cold and not very empathetic.

I think it is a mistake to underestimate her and accept the theory that the male suspect spearheaded the whole thing. People tend to underestimate the effect females in a relationship have on the male. In politics and business, a woman can be a driver for success of the husband ("behind every successful man is a good wife"). In murder cases, the woman equally has an influence, but to the dark side.

 

[mrazda71]

spot on

Of course, to Becky's family, she is all those things in death, a princess, an angel etc ... but from all I've seen and read I'd say she was a fairly typical 16 year old girl. Her photos said it all for me, the make up pouty selfies but then you see her in the video with her Dad looking like a different girl ... as the mum of 3 older girls I can testify that at that age there's a dozen different sides to them.

From what we've heard from court so far, I'd say that Becky had a more stable upbringing than SH by far and it's just my opinion but I'd hazard a guess that SH has a lot of issues including low self esteem/self confidence. I think she felt lucky to have this good looking older man and I think NM was her whole world and I think she'd do anything she could to keep her world from imploding - be that taking part in threesomes, not seeing her family and friends because he didn't like them or even cleaning up his latest mess. I'm not saying she was a nice or weak person, I imagine she couldn't be a B@#! (Though I imagine Becky could too, they're both young girls!) But I certainly don't think as e-sherlock does and that SH is the mastermind of this crime.

 

[jessie]

As usual I'm just asking a question

NM's fingerprint found on Becky's bedroom doorframe - right. He said he strangled her after his kidnap attempt failed though didn't he. I thought strangulation was a sort of bloodless thing, so why was there any blood?

Also didn't Becky's dad make a press/public statement asking people to take notice of someone with blood on their clothes after she was missing?
(I remember it made me think she had been attacked in the shower at the time).

A pretty gruesome question, but I'm trying to relate NM's statement with what really went on.
I'd be hopeless on a jury :facepalm:

 

[mrazda71]

Yes Jessie! I've been wondering about that too ... unless during the struggle "Becky fought for her life" there was some minor blood loss, nose bleed - scratches etc ...
It's been stated in court that after NM had killed Becky, he stabbed her 15 times but I'd imagine if this had occurred in Becky's bedroom then that would've needed one hell of a clean up!

 

[jessie]

Yes Jessie! I've been wondering about that too ... unless during the struggle "Becky fought for her life" there was some minor blood loss, nose bleed - scratches etc ...
It's been stated in court that after NM had killed Becky, he stabbed her 15 times but I'd imagine if this had occurred in Becky's bedroom then that would've needed one hell of a clean up!

Yes, with the stabbing (one a screwdriver in the neck?) - I just did wonder if that was to try and drain blood later, probably in NM's bath?

 

[mrazda71]

Yes, with the stabbing (one a screwdriver in the neck?) - I just did wonder if that was to try and drain blood later, probably in NM's bath?

Eeek a gruesome thought but yes ...

 

[jessie]

Eeek a gruesome thought but yes ...

Sorry ! My apologies, didn't mean to shock.
It is a gruesome thought, but as drain cleaner was the first thing he bought next day it seemed possible.
There is just no way to put things in more delicate wording when such atrocities occur.

 

[bos]

I think the blood has either been drawn during the violent struggle ( remember prosecution stated Becky fought for her life) Or remember 16 stab wounds were inflicted postmortem; 15 to abdomen & 1 to neck. We have no idea whether these wounds were inflicted in her bedroom or after she was moved and pre- dismemberment. I think the extent of wounds will become more apparent if pathologist gives evidence; think we've only heard the headlines so far

 

[Wallace]

I think the blood has either been drawn during the violent struggle ( remember prosecution stated Becky fought for her life) Or remember 16 stab wounds were inflicted postmortem; 15 to abdomen & 1 to neck. We have no idea whether these wounds were inflicted in her bedroom or after she was moved and pre- dismemberment. I think the extent of wounds will become more apparent if pathologist gives evidence; think we've only heard the headlines so far

It's far more likely that the stab wounds were post mortem. If that had happened in the bedroom it would have been almost impossible to clean up. This would have been a murder enquiry from day one.

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[bos]

It's far more likely that the stab wounds were post mortem. If that had happened in the bedroom it would have been almost impossible to clean up. This would have been a murder enquiry from day one.

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We know that they were inflicted post mortem; we don't know how far post mortem ergo what location BW's corpse was in when inflicted

 

[Insp.Dots]

I think by sounds of evidence Becky was only killed in the bedroom then put quickly in the boot of car. They said 'Suffocation' in court and assuming Becky fought blood may have come from nose or perhaps an injury from resisting. It sounds like it was the bloody prints of NM on bedroom door frame was first reason for arrest. I was aghast at the fact that they did this then remained in the house with other family members returning until evening....thinking they had an alibi presumably. They weren't smart in their 'stories' at one point NM said SH was waiting in the car while he went in to 'kidnap' Becky, yet she had no knowledge of any of it....how stupid do they think the jury are? I must say I am very impressed at the Police's collecting of the evidence and the effort they have gone to to cover all eventualities (excuses). I think all involved are going to be 'rightly' looking at very long sentences! As for the 'helpers', I have little sympathy as whether they thought it was drugs or other, the moment they realised NM was Becky's brother they should have reported what they knew. Thanks to everyone for the updates from trial 'UKCrimes against Children' on FB is very good too as they have someone in court.

 

[Insp.Dots]

We know that they were inflicted post mortem; we don't know how far post mortem ergo what location BW's corpse was in when inflicted

I'd guess their bathroom at Cotton Mill lane, possibly with the thought of 'draining' the body. Also interesting that NM had recieved some training on decontamination from TA.

 

[sar2them1984]

I'd guess their bathroom at Cotton Mill lane, possibly with the thought of 'draining' the body. Also interesting that NM had recieved some training on decontamination from TA.

Yes I'm not sure exactly how much training they have in the TA but he used salt and cat litter when hiding Beckys body..

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[Cherwell]

'UKCrimes against Children' on FB is very good too as they have someone in court.

Thanks for this - I've only had a quick look so far, but they have included comments and questions from the defence barristers which I have not read elsewhere.

Full name of the FB page is "UK & Eire database for all crimes against children"