GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #5

[Wallace]

Yes I'm not sure exactly how much training they have in the TA but he used salt and cat litter when hiding Beckys body..

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The decontamination training is likely to have been related to clean up of chemical attacks, radiation or disease epidemic.

More likely that they got the ideas to accelerate decomposition (salt) and masking the smell (kitty litter) from their internet searches.

Guess their internet searches didn't explicitly tell them not to store the body in their mates garden shed. Still don't understand why they didn't dump it in the Severn.

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[skibaboo]

Didn't Becky's dad say it was Becky's 'time of the month'? Could menstrual blood have been the blood on the door/in bedroom? Just thinking out loud. Wondering about why 15 stab wounds specifically in the abdomen too.

 

[Wallace]

Was there any mention of how deep the stab wounds were or what they were made with?

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[eneri12]

Just been reading through the posts on the crimes agaibt children fb page, a lot more in depth than some of the tweets and articles I've read.
Interesting that it's hinted that JI May be autistic or have aspergers, I'd imagine his defence would try to use that in his defence

 

[Insp.Dots]

Thanks for this - I've only had a quick look so far, but they have included comments and questions from the defence barristers which I have not read elsewhere.

Full name of the FB page is "UK & Eire database for all crimes against children"

Yes, I only found it on Friday but does give a lot more insight into the trial.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Was there any mention of how deep the stab wounds were or what they were made with?

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Wound in neck by cross head screwdriver but only said stab wounds to abdomen but not whether they too were screwdriver.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Didn't Becky's dad say it was Becky's 'time of the month'? Could menstrual blood have been the blood on the door/in bedroom? Just thinking out loud. Wondering about why 15 stab wounds specifically in the abdomen too.

I remember him stating this 'before' arrests were made so I'm wondering if it was just after Police told them blood had been found OR it was NM trying to be clever and put others off the scent. Just a thought though, no doubt we will hear more in the coming days.

 

[Insp.Dots]

The decontamination training is likely to have been related to clean up of chemical attacks, radiation or disease epidemic.

More likely that they got the ideas to accelerate decomposition (salt) and masking the smell (kitty litter) from their internet searches.

Guess their internet searches didn't explicitly tell them not to store the body in their mates garden shed. Still don't understand why they didn't dump it in the Severn.

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Yes, I thought that but I suspect the shed was only a quick thought as he knew by then the Police would search his house the next day so he ran out of time. I love the fact that the CTV on one of the buildings put the evidence in the bag for the Police. Not as 'clever' as he thought NM. I find it laughable that the 'assistors' actually seemed to believe he would pay them £5000 for doing the job! Not the cleverest bunch of people are they?!!

 

[eneri12]

There's a mention on the UK crimes against children Facebook feed from court that either KD or JI told a neighbour he'd moved soft and squidgy packages, surely they must've started to put 2+2 together after NM was arrested if not before? I can imagine the 4 of them being terrified and not knowing what to do but burying their heads in the sand so to speak. Fear of police stopping them coming forward? Will be interesting to see when KD and JP actually admitted being involved/pleaded guilty, did they put their cards on the table as soon as they were arrested?

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

Of course, to Becky's family, she is all those things in death, a princess, an angel etc ... but from all I've seen and read I'd say she was a fairly typical 16 year old girl. Her photos said it all for me, the make up pouty selfies but then you see her in the video with her Dad looking like a different girl ... as the mum of 3 older girls I can testify that at that age there's a dozen different sides to them.

From what we've heard from court so far, I'd say that Becky had a more stable upbringing than SH by far and it's just my opinion but I'd hazard a guess that SH has a lot of issues including low self esteem/self confidence. I think she felt lucky to have this good looking older man and I think NM was her whole world and I think she'd do anything she could to keep her world from imploding - be that taking part in threesomes, not seeing her family and friends because he didn't like them or even cleaning up his latest mess. I'm not saying she was a nice or weak person, I imagine she couldn't be a B@#! (Though I imagine Becky could too, they're both young girls!) But I certainly don't think as e-sherlock does and that SH is the mastermind of this crime.

I've seen Becky's selfies (that you're talking about) on her FB page, which was hard to find if I recall, because many of her family members didn't have her added as a friend for some reason. Well, I don't think it reflects vanity like what you're suggesting. I think its just what youngsters do in this era of instagram and selfie taking. Tell me about it, I don't understand this culture. But its how people 'express' themselves these days.

I saw the video with her eating with the dad too. I think that is the real her. That selfie side might be the side for her friends. In the video with the dad, she seemed sweet, which is why this case seems particularly tragic to me.

I guess we will never know whether the female suspect coached and manipulated the male suspect (short of either of them coming clean with the full story). But, my theory is that the female suspect played a large role here in both the murder (or at least the manipulation of the male suspect) and also during the cleanup process. I thought so the moment the male suspect was officially arrested (while she was initially not arrested).

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

The decontamination training is likely to have been related to clean up of chemical attacks, radiation or disease epidemic.

More likely that they got the ideas to accelerate decomposition (salt) and masking the smell (kitty litter) from their internet searches.

Guess their internet searches didn't explicitly tell them not to store the body in their mates garden shed. Still don't understand why they didn't dump it in the Severn.

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Forensic pathologists can chime in. But I don't think salt is used to accelerate decomposition. Salt is used to help accelerate dehydration of the body, which helps to preserve the body actually. With less water content, the less bacterial activity. The advantage will be that it reduces the chance of odor, as there is less bacteria activity. Anyway, most of the bacterial activity comes from the body's innards anyway. And that is well protected from any salt placed on the surface/outside of the body. This is why hunters take out the guts right away from the hunt.

Anyway, that is not to say these two are masterminds so who knows what their motivation was, or if it was scientifically driven for why they used salt. The fact they bought a circular saw says a lot about their intelligence.

 

[Cherwell]

I guess we will never know whether the female suspect coached and manipulated the male suspect (short of either of them coming clean with the full story). But, my theory is that the female suspect played a large role here in both the murder (or at least the manipulation of the male suspect) and also during the cleanup process. I thought so the moment the male suspect was officially arrested (while she was initially not arrested).

You still haven't told us why you think that.

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

You still haven't told us why you think that.

I already did. From psychological profiling.

I had this view from the very start, ever since the case was still a missing persons case.

Looking at the photos of the female suspect, and her subsequent social media posts, she comes across as cold and petty to me. She is also a heavier set person and arguably less attractive and older than the victim.

She had a worse off, less successful life than the victim, who she could have saw as just getting started with a full life ahead of her.

The family and everyone around the victim probably adores her.

I think the male suspect may have glanced at the victim a few times during family gatherings. I think the female suspect may have picked up on these cues.

Overall, all of these things could have driven the suspect to show contempt and hated for the victim. A person in that position may well manipulate the man to do their bidding. Maybe they were mutually motivated to get at the victim too.

At least, the official prosecution theory is that the motivation for this crime was sexual in nature as the suspect's shared interest in the crime. I think it was that, plus jealousy and thus contempt for the victim.

 

[eneri12]

Imho the selfies and fb pictures of RW indicate a typical teenager. I work with teens and these are the same standard poses they all use and post online, we can thank the medias sexualisation of young people for that. While these pictures present an online persona they almost never represent the young person in real life so we shouldn't make snap judgements on RWs facebook pictures. Just my opinion

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

Imho the selfies and fb pictures of RW indicate a typical teenager. I work with teens and these are the same standard poses they all use and post online, we can thank the medias sexualisation of young people for that. While these pictures present an online persona they almost never represent the young person in real life so we shouldn't make snap judgements on RWs facebook pictures. Just my opinion

I agree. I think it is the product of this 'selfie era' we live in with social media like facebook, instagram and twitter. This is how youngsters express themselves. I think people use 'selfies' as a way to express confidence, beauty and success. Its a form of expression in the electronic age. Thank God I grew up before this crap though.

I saw Becky as the girl in the video eating pasta(?) with the dad. She seemed sweet and I think most people can see that about her. Along with her other photos, she seemed shy and reserved.

 

[sar2them1984]

I already did. From psychological profiling.

I had this view from the very start, ever since the case was still a missing persons case.

Looking at the photos of the female suspect, and her subsequent social media posts, she comes across as cold and petty to me. She is also a heavier set person and arguably less attractive and older than the victim.

She had a worse off, less successful life than the victim, who she could have saw as just getting started with a full life ahead of her.

The family and everyone around the victim probably adores her.

I think the male suspect may have glanced at the victim a few times during family gatherings. I think the female suspect may have picked up on these cues.

Overall, all of these things could have driven the suspect to show contempt and hated for the victim. A person in that position may well manipulate the man to do their bidding. Maybe they were mutually motivated to get at the victim too.

At least, the official prosecution theory is that the motivation for this crime was sexual in nature as the suspect's shared interest in the crime. I think it was that, plus jealousy and thus contempt for the victim.

Ok I've pretty much thought along similar lines as you in that SH is more more the astute, willing accomplice if not main instigator of the pair.

There are a number of reasons behind this which when I've got a bit more time I'll detail but one of the main things I'd like to point out is that we only have the testimony of the SH family at the moment which gives "insight" into the relationship and seeing as it is their kin which they are describing and the fact that they've not seen or heard off SH for several years then I'm not holding much stock into how accurate their view of the relationship is...

I will disagree with you when you say she is a heavier set less attractive woman - personally compared to a lot of females you see knocking around and based on the limited pictures if her that we have access to - she seems like a normal built young female just moo though

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[Cherwell]

I already did. From psychological profiling.

I had this view from the very start, ever since the case was still a missing persons case.

Looking at the photos of the female suspect, and her subsequent social media posts, she comes across as cold and petty to me. She is also a heavier set person and arguably less attractive and older than the victim.

She had a worse off, less successful life than the victim, who she could have saw as just getting started with a full life ahead of her.

The family and everyone around the victim probably adores her.

I think the male suspect may have glanced at the victim a few times during family gatherings. I think the female suspect may have picked up on these cues.

Overall, all of these things could have driven the suspect to show contempt and hated for the victim. A person in that position may well manipulate the man to do their bidding. Maybe they were mutually motivated to get at the victim too.

At least, the official prosecution theory is that the motivation for this crime was sexual in nature as the suspect's shared interest in the crime. I think it was that, plus jealousy and thus contempt for the victim.

So what it boils down to is that you don't like the look of her.

"She is also a heavier set person and arguably less attractive and older than the victim."

From the photos I've seen, this young woman is of a healthy weight and figure. It's remarks like this that drive young girls like poor Becky to anorexia. As for "older", she's in her early twenties, still comfortably within the age range when we think that we'll be young for ever.

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

Ok I've pretty much thought along similar lines as you in that SH is more more the astute, willing accomplice if not main instigator of the pair.

There are a number of reasons behind this which when I've got a bit more time I'll detail but one of the main things I'd like to point out is that we only have the testimony of the SH family at the moment which gives "insight" into the relationship and seeing as it is their kin which they are describing and the fact that they've not seen or heard off SH for several years then I'm not holding much stock into how accurate their view of the relationship is...

I will disagree with you when you say she is a heavier set less attractive woman - personally compared to a lot of females you see knocking around and based on the limited pictures if her that we have access to - she seems like a normal built young female just moo though

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I don't mean to say she is unattractive or fat. She is perfectly fine looking and not at all overweight.

Of course, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. But at least from my perspective, I think the suspect will be deemed less attractive on the whole, compared to the victim, generally speaking.

I am speaking in terms of the suspect's viewpoint here. I think she sees herself as less attractive than the victim and this is a source from which to build contempt for the victim.

 

[mrazda71]

Well, I don't think it reflects vanity like what you're suggesting. I think its just what youngsters do in this era of instagram and selfie taking

You've quoted me and yet at no point have I ever suggested that Becky was "vain" ...

By Psychological profiling do you mean that's your guess and you're sticking with it with no explanation of how you came to that conclusion?

 

[Cherwell]

I don't mean to say she is unattractive or fat. She is perfectly fine looking and not at all overweight.

Of course, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. But at least from my perspective, I think the suspect will be deemed less attractive on the whole, compared to the victim, generally speaking.

I am speaking in terms of the suspect's viewpoint here. I think she sees herself as less attractive than the victim and this is a source from which to build contempt for the victim.

But what gives you that impression? I too read her FB page in the early days, and I really didn't see anything that gave much insight into her thoughts and character. As I recall, it was mostly passing on jokes, cartoons and memes. Nothing any worse than I see on the pages of some of my own friends.