GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #9

[Edinlass]

Looking at the pics from them in asda, I found it strange he was walking quite a bit infront of her going into the shop, I wonder if the child was a bit more in front & he was chasing the child to catch up. Otherwise, they seem to be a fair distance from eachother going on an apparant innocent shopping trip IMO....

Also she looks fully Involved with the purchase at the self checkout...

 

[YidArmyRach]

I find it strange that everyone noticed Becky's "disrespectful behaviour" towards her stepmother and yet nobody noticed the disrespectful, violent and controlling behaviour of NM towards SH? Or did anything about it.

Becky was thrown out of her home for a while, but nobody seems to have tried to have help SH or to have NM tone down his behaviour. Did they really not notice she was apparently controlled to the point of not being allowed out on her own, had all her money controlled by him, was told what to eat by him, was physically abused and so on? SH & NM were spending hours each day with Becky's family, so if the relationship was that bad, why didn't anyone notice .... if it really was like SH says it was.

 

[Tortoise]

I seem to recall at the time A&S police saying something like the #findbeckywatts campaign was one of the most shared and tweeted about missing person cases ever, with the #findbeckywatts hashtag being used over 400,000 times, and tens of thousands of shares of the missing person posters on facebook. There's no way they could have missed it. I live over 200 miles from Becky, and wasn't even in the UK at the time she was missing, but I knew about all the searches from Facebook, Twitter, MSM reports etc. It was impossible to miss.

One of the nights in the week during the searches, may have been the Thursday, SH searched up "Becky Watts", "Nathan Matthews", "Shauna".

That was before their arrests.

 

[epiphany]

The Child Psych on BW's Anorexia (BBM):

The court heard a statement from Ingrid Van Der Lang, a children's mental health consultant who started seeing Becky in October 2011.

She said the schoolgirl had cognitive behavioral therapy for anxiety and 'presented as anxiously attached to Anjie and possessive over her and her time'.

She said Becky's BMI dropped to 16.2 in March 2012 and added: 'Rebecca had been teased as a child by her own family and had been called fat at times.She had been restricting her food because she wanted to look thinner in family photos.'

But she said after treatment the schoolgirl was discharged in March 2013 when she was 'more mature and happy' and 'she was now happy and joyful'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ims-used-dream-psycho-boyfriend-dump-her.html


Hmm, can't imagine who would tease her about being "fat."

 

[KatieLH]

I find it strange that everyone noticed Becky's "disrespectful behaviour" towards her stepmother and yet nobody noticed the disrespectful, violent and controlling behaviour of NM towards SH? Or did anything about it.

Becky was thrown out of her home for a while, but nobody seems to have tried to have help SH or to have NM tone down his behaviour. Did they really not notice she was apparently controlled to the point of not being allowed out on her own, had all her money controlled by him, was told what to eat by him, was physically abused and so on? SH & NM were spending hours each day with Becky's family, so if the relationship was that bad, why didn't anyone notice .... if it really was like SH says it was.

Just IMO but simply put I don't think that SH had many people, if any, who actually cared about her or what was happening in her life. I also think that, since the two had been together for so long, the controlling behaviour was so ingrained that it probably wasn't even noticeable to those who weren't directly involved in the relationship. Kind of hidden in plain sight, if that makes sense. People who are abusive or controlling in relationships are often extremely good at hiding it - that's why they get away with it for so long, they create an environment of total fear for their victim but it is hardly ever obvious to those on the outside.

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

Why are people being lead down the rabbit hole to this sob story narrative that the female suspect is a submissive, abused and controlled woman, and that in contrast, the male suspect is a sadistic, controlling sexual deviant?

The submissive woman spin could help to alleviate some burden for the female suspect had she admitted to participating in the crimes. But consider that her official testimony is that she is 100% innocent of everything. How is this helping her case at all? Is it only to prove support for her narrative that she didn't dare walk into the washroom after smelling bleach because the man told her to stay out of the toilet for days and pee in a bucket, among other nonsensical narrative? That's it? Maybe bonus compassion points on grounds of humanity in the name of all abused spouses worldwide (but that have no tangible relation to the case at all)?

Friends and family of the female suspect trying to say positive things and put on a positive spin for someone they care about is not surprising. But I think its mostly a distraction from the case. I don't see why we keep focusing on how she is this abused submissive woman. I personally don't believe she is, but even if she was, how is it adding to her case to prove she is innocent? I don't think it does and I think its a distraction aimed at buying sympathy.

 

[epiphany]

Shauna On The Tin:

‘You can imagine the suffering she went through, how scared, and to imagine I was round there. If I hadn't found the tin we wouldn't have gone over, she would be happily living her life..."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3289932/Woman-accused-murdering-Becky-Watts-claims-u

 

[Gigi-G]

Sorry got a quote from another post stuck at the top. Not familiar with editing arghhh apologies xx

 

[KatieLH]

Why are people being lead down the rabbit hole to this sob story narrative that the female suspect is a submission, abused and controlled woman, and that the male suspect is a sadistic, controlling sexual deviant?

The submissive woman spin could help to alleviate some burden if for the female suspect, had she admitted to participating in the crimes. But consider that her official testimony is that she is 100% innocent of everything. How is this helping her case at all? Is it only to prove support for her narrative that she didn't dare walk into the washroom after smelling bleach because the man told her to stay out of the toilet for days and pee in a bucket, among other nonsensical narrative? That's it? Maybe bonus compassion points on grounds of humanity (but that have no tangible relation to the case at all)?

Friends and family of the female suspect trying to say positive things and put on a positive spin for someone they care about is not surprising. But I think its mostly a distraction from the case. I don't see why we keep focusing on why she is this abused submission woman. I personally don't believe she is, but even if she was, how is it adding to her case?

Haha, seeing as this seems to be applicable to something I just posted, I'll attempt to answer it. I said in an earlier thread that it doesn't necessarily help her case, or absolve her of any wrongdoing if she was in fact involved - but their relationship is a huge part of the case and who they are as individuals, and in that aspect I find it extremely interesting and relevant when discussing the case. I find it important that they first became involved when Shauna was only 14 and NM was considerably older, especially considering the power imbalances that are already inherent in a relationship between a man and a woman. I think that the fact that NM was attracted to SH at such a young, vulnerable age (no matter how 'adult' she may have presented) and started a relationship with her says a lot about him as a person, rather than her. Honestly, I find it so hard to think of a reason as to why a grown man would want to be in a relationship with a young teenager, unless it was because he believed that the teenager would be easier to subdue and 'mould' to his liking.

I would not say that those of us that believe SH's behaviour in court etc may be a result of her being in a controlling, potentially abusive relationship are being 'led down the rabbit hole'. I just think that if the relationship is abusive and controlling, which we have had witnesses attest to, then it explains a lot of SH's behaviours before, during, and after RW's murder. It does not make her innocent. It does not mean that she does not know more than she is letting on. But it explains, to me, why she would choose to claim 100% innocence, and why she would act the way she has done throughout the trial, rather than admitting to some involvement in the crime (which we actually do not have any concrete proof of, as of yet).

In my opinion, if SH has been controlled and abused, then it means everything in terms of how this case should be resolved. She has been in this relationship since she was a child - even now, she is only 21. It means that all of her reactions and behaviours have been directly impacted by living in an unhealthy, controlling environment - it means that NM's hold over her is potentially so great that actually, yes, it has greatly impacted her ability to react 'properly' to a situation as heinous as this. I don't know how else to word it. I could turn out to be totally incorrect - maybe I have been sucked in by SH's ability to lie fantastically and play the role of the subdued, abused woman. But if that is the case, and it turns out that she's the guilty mastermind, then I'll still feel completely secure with my decision to give her the benefit of the doubt and see her as a victim - because to me, at the moment, nothing has proved otherwise.

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

The Child Psych on BW's Anorexia (BBM):

The court heard a statement from Ingrid Van Der Lang, a children's mental health consultant who started seeing Becky in October 2011.

She said the schoolgirl had cognitive behavioral therapy for anxiety and 'presented as anxiously attached to Anjie and possessive over her and her time'.

She said Becky's BMI dropped to 16.2 in March 2012 and added: 'Rebecca had been teased as a child by her own family and had been called fat at times.She had been restricting her food because she wanted to look thinner in family photos.'

But she said after treatment the schoolgirl was discharged in March 2013 when she was 'more mature and happy' and 'she was now happy and joyful'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ims-used-dream-psycho-boyfriend-dump-her.html


Hmm, can't imagine who would tease her about being "fat."

Here's the other narrative to this whole case that is a distraction also: the idea that Becky is anorexic.

It might help to portray the fact the victim may have been marginalized by her family and specifically by the suspects on grounds of the victim's eating disorder, or her supposed vanity. But I'm not sure what the benefit is to making clear the fact Becky was having eating disorders with the purpose of looking good. I don't see how that benefits the case much. Just another distraction.

Its as if these testimonies about her anorexia serves as "justification" for the female suspect's sickening portrayal of the poor victim (the female suspect did say Becky was anorexic to try to look womanly, etc). Its like they're trying to say: "Seee... told you so. She was right. Becky was anorexic. Ha! Just spoke the truth. Everybody knows."

Ultimately, I don't care if Becky was anorexic, or even a bratty teenager. Who wasn't a bratty teenager when they were young? But these are no reason to justify what had happened to her. Its sick to even suggest, by even some posters here, that she sorta had it coming because Becky was a little bratty and a "madame" that rubbed some sociopaths the wrong way. The case here involves someone being brutally murdered and her body mutilated. Whether or not she was a brat or an ice-queen or a selfie lover or takes two showers a day or likes to get the attention of guys at school, it has no bearing on anything tangible to the murder case, other than if spoken by the suspects as it sheds light on their mindset.

 

[YidArmyRach]

Shauna On The Tin:

‘You can imagine the suffering she went through, how scared, and to imagine I was round there. If I hadn't found the tin we wouldn't have gone over, she would be happily living her life..."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3289932/Woman-accused-murdering-Becky-Watts-claims-u

But they stayed there for hours to replicate their usual pattern of behaviour - so NM says.

So if they were only there to return a tin, why didn't SH question why they ended up there until 7pm?

Why feed the rabbit and have a smoke in the garden if you are just returning a tin? Surely one of them would have just popped it in the kitchen and gone off again, without all needing to get out of the car.

And if their usual pattern was to spend all day there, why bother returning a tin when they could take it any other time they were due to carry out their caring duties.

 

[cottonweaver]

Hi guys - very interesting posts here from you all.

New to following & posting on this trial.


I've watched the Vts that have been released and read about some of NM's difficulties. SH comes over as very articulate and gives all the right answers. She is very self-aware and her statements often reflect the impact on events on her as well as her culpability.


I also just can't believe he was mentally capable of controlling all her aspects of her life. I think she is conveniently throwing him under the bus.

Also, how long after death was the body of Becky inside their house before it was wrapped? ( If it was considerable, I am thinking back to when one of our pets died at night at home and the odour by the next morning before he was taken to the vets was very heavy. )

Another question, regarding the blocked toilet, as if it was a regular thing, so where was she expected to go to the loo then?
He buys £40 worth of cleaning products yet they are on a tight budget, but she never really questioned it?
I may have got some stuff wrong. Is there anything better than the mirror for accuracy?

 

[KatieLH]

But they stayed there for hours to replicate their usual pattern of behaviour - so NM says.

So if they were only there to return a tin, why didn't SH question why they ended up there until 7pm?

Why feed the rabbit and have a smoke in the garden if you are just returning a tin? Surely one of them would have just popped it in the kitchen and gone off again, without all needing to get out of the car.

And if their usual pattern was to spend all day there, why bother returning a tin when they could take it any other time they were due to carry out their caring duties.

I think this is one of the things that I don't actually find strange, haha - I've gone to drop something off at parents/a friend's house and only intended to be there for a few minutes, but ended up staying much later! I think it all depends on the dynamics of the family, really.

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

Hoare was asked in interview on March 3 - hours after Becky's remains were found in a shed - how she could prove she wasn't involved in the teen's death.

"I don't have fingerprints on her, hair, skin cells, and anything like that. "
"I have never touched things, I won't have any fingerprints on her, I won't have skin cells"
....
"I never thought he would ever take it this far.."

http://www.itv.com/news/west/2015-1...nd-felt-sick-at-killer-boyfriends-confession/

What is it that she never thought he would take this far?
She seems very sure that none of her DNA would be found? She lived in the same house where the body was dismembered and packaged. How could she be so sure? She's pretty much saying "you won't find anything to tie me to this".

There are lots of other little things that in isolation can be glossed over, but when taken together, it almost feels as though she orchestrated and supervised the cover-up, without actually getting her hands dirty.

She was probably wearing gloves the entire time and thinking she outsmarted everyone. After all, there is little mention of full prints on the clingfilm etc. So they probably thought they did a good job other than some messups like leaving some partial DNA on the knot of the bags etc.

I read somewhere they spent around 100 pounds during one of their shopping spree? I think it is in the prosecution's interest to relate that to their usual spending pattern. How much do these couples spend in the past for groceries? How often do they shop where they shopped? Anything that statistically proves its an outlier of normalized behavior of these two suspects will help to suggest malice IMO.

 

[YidArmyRach]

I think this is one of the things that I don't actually find strange, haha - I've gone to drop something off at parents/a friend's house and only intended to be there for a few minutes, but ended up staying much later! I think it all depends on the dynamics of the family, really.

I find it amazing that she managed to find anything in that mess of a house to be honest.

 

[KatieLH]

I find it amazing that she managed to find anything in that mess of a house to be honest.

It's weird - I've known people who live in some pretty messy houses (nothing on this level, though!) but for some reason they always seem to be able to find whatever they need easily?! Whereas I lose everything in my tidy house!

 

[KatieLH]

Hi guys - very interesting posts here from you all.

New to following & posting on this trial.


I've watched the Vts that have been released and read about some of NM's difficulties. SH comes over as very articulate and gives all the right answers. She is very self-aware and her statements often reflect the impact on events on her as well as her culpability.


I also just can't believe he was mentally capable of controlling all her aspects of her life. I think she is conveniently throwing him under the bus.

Also, how long after death was the body of Becky inside their house before it was wrapped? ( If it was considerable, I am thinking back to when one of our pets died at night at home and the odour by the next morning before he was taken to the vets was very heavy. )

Another question, regarding the blocked toilet, as if it was a regular thing, so where was she expected to go to the loo then?
He buys £40 worth of cleaning products yet they are on a tight budget, but she never really questioned it?
I may have got some stuff wrong. Is there anything better than the mirror for accuracy?

I think that's the one thing that really confuses me about this case - it seems like he's the only one really throwing himself under the bus and I can't figure out why!

 

[cottonweaver]

This is what I mean by making statements that are actually all about her not Becky

I didn't always like Becky but she was a nice enough girl, she was so young. I don't understand why he did it. I don't understand how he could have done it to us.

I think it is more angry at the moment than anything - angry he has done it, that he did it, that he could do it when I was there in the house.

'I'm feeling sick to know she was there - appalled, disgusted, outrageously angry - and I feel a bit like I am going to wake up and this is not happening.


To know that if I had pushed him one day it could have been me. I just don't understand any of it.’

And the ones where she makes statements very clear of the impact on her/how it looks:

hen police asked her about a shopping trip where she and Matthews bought cleaning equipment, tape and rubble sacks, Hoare said she thought he wanted to tidy up their home, adding that it was 'really bad timing'

on viewing frozen video “'It was obviously before I knew anything had happened to Becky as it would be very insensitive.

Police officer: “You can see the picture I’m painting.”
Hoare told police “Yes I know it looks bad.”

Is this a slip-up or an inaccurate report by mirror:
"Why he would think this would be a good idea - ‘let’s go and scare someone half to death’ - I don’t know."

 

[kimlo]

I think that's the one thing that really confuses me about this case - it seems like he's the only one really throwing himself under the bus and I can't figure out why!

Because they think that the picture theyre painting makes some sort of sense and will be belived, and the truth would be much much worse for both of them.

Thats what i think anyway.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[cottonweaver]

I think that's the one thing that really confuses me about this case - it seems like he's the only one really throwing himself under the bus and I can't figure out why!

I'm speculating that he is ready to take all the blame and this has been pre-arranged between them. Everything he said is careful to demonstrate she knew nothing.

I mean she is throwing him under the bus in terms of character assassination so that if things go badly for her , in sentencing, she can say she has suffered DV at his hands/been in a long term abusive relationship. ( Probably yes there was some abuse but as another poster stated, I was expecting prosecution witnesses to say he was not that bad. let's see what Defence witnesses say?)