GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #9

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This is what I mean by making statements that are actually all about her not Becky

I didn't always like Becky but she was a nice enough girl, she was so young. I don't understand why he did it. I don't understand how he could have done it to us.

Yet she said in another interview that she wanted out of the relationship and hoped he would meet someone else and leave her?

So surely this is the opportunity she has been waiting for. But all of a sudden she is worried about what he has done to their relationship?

The horrible relationship she apparently couldn't escape from.

Another contradiction?
 
I'm speculating that he is ready to take all the blame and this has been pre-arranged between them. Everything he said is careful to demonstrate she knew nothing.

I mean she is throwing him under the bus in terms of character assassination so that if things go badly for her , in sentencing, she can say she has suffered DV at his hands/been in a long term abusive relationship. ( Probably yes there was some abuse but as another poster stated, I was expecting prosecution witnesses to say he was not that bad. let's see what Defence witnesses say?)

I get what you're saying :) I too am interested in hearing more about their relationship - hopefully we get to hear more throughout the trial.
 
I'm speculating that he is ready to take all the blame and this has been pre-arranged between them. Everything he said is careful to demonstrate she knew nothing.

I mean she is throwing him under the bus in terms of character assassination so that if things go badly for her , in sentencing, she can say she has suffered DV at his hands/been in a long term abusive relationship. ( Probably yes there was some abuse but as another poster stated, I was expecting prosecution witnesses to say he was not that bad. let's see what Defence witnesses say?)

If it was planned for him to take all the blame - could he implicate her now, at this late stage, if he isn't happy with her slating their relationship, telling everyone he strangled her, controlled her and treated her badly ..... and even said she used to wish he'd leave her?
 
Haha, seeing as this seems to be applicable to something I just posted, I'll attempt to answer it. I said in an earlier thread that it doesn't necessarily help her case, or absolve her of any wrongdoing if she was in fact involved - but their relationship is a huge part of the case and who they are as individuals, and in that aspect I find it extremely interesting and relevant when discussing the case. I find it important that they first became involved when Shauna was only 14 and NM was considerably older, especially considering the power imbalances that are already inherent in a relationship between a man and a woman. I think that the fact that NM was attracted to SH at such a young, vulnerable age (no matter how 'adult' she may have presented) and started a relationship with her says a lot about him as a person, rather than her. Honestly, I find it so hard to think of a reason as to why a grown man would want to be in a relationship with a young teenager, unless it was because he believed that the teenager would be easier to subdue and 'mould' to his liking.

I would not say that those of us that believe SH's behaviour in court etc may be a result of her being in a controlling, potentially abusive relationship are being 'led down the rabbit hole'. I just think that if the relationship is abusive and controlling, which we have had witnesses attest to, then it explains a lot of SH's behaviours before, during, and after RW's murder. It does not make her innocent. It does not mean that she does not know more than she is letting on. But it explains, to me, why she would choose to claim 100% innocence, and why she would act the way she has done throughout the trial, rather than admitting to some involvement in the crime (which we actually do not have any concrete proof of, as of yet).

In my opinion, if SH has been controlled and abused, then it means everything in terms of how this case should be resolved. She has been in this relationship since she was a child - even now, she is only 21. It means that all of her reactions and behaviours have been directly impacted by living in an unhealthy, controlling environment - it means that NM's hold over her is potentially so great that actually, yes, it has greatly impacted her ability to react 'properly' to a situation as heinous as this. I don't know how else to word it. I could turn out to be totally incorrect - maybe I have been sucked in by SH's ability to lie fantastically and play the role of the subdued, abused woman. But if that is the case, and it turns out that she's the guilty mastermind, then I'll still feel completely secure with my decision to give her the benefit of the doubt and see her as a victim - because to me, at the moment, nothing has proved otherwise.

This "male moulds female" storyline is farce IMO. Why couldn't she have "moulded" him instead? Its an incredibly biased assertion from the get go that immediately takes sides with the female suspect on compassionate grounds on just that basis alone. As discussed in the past, if she is guilty, as with most murderous couples, both people are 'messed up' to begin with. Both will have psychopathic tendencies. Both might be sexual deviants. Shared motivations and interests is what drove them into violent crime making them a match made in hell. If she had not met him, perhaps they both wouldn't have done what they did. So it is unfair to say "he's responsible for shaping her", when in all likelihood they both gradually shaped each other and fed off each other, leading to a snowballing avalanche effect of evil. They are both responsible, but the moment you try to blame one or the other, is where you become biased.

The duration of their relationship is also so long, that you can't pinpoint who 'moulded' who. She might have been young when they first got together, but she grew up along the way in their long relationship together. She might have been young by way of age, but her mind might be mature. Maybe even more mature than the male at the time they met. Clearly it seems she is more mature right now than he is, based on some of the interrogation videos I've seen. Maybe she could have "moulded" him. Who knows? Age doesn't mean anything. Plenty of leaders are younger than their subordinates. "Moulding" is a mind game and its what's up there in the head that counts most. Not age, not gender, not physical size/strength. Plus, she was the one engaging him with all those text messages about kidnapping strangers. So that automatically throws out the theory she is an innocent wallflower being strung along.

Ultimately, this whole narrative adds nothing tangible. Its to buy sympathy basically. Its trying to prop the female suspect up on humanitarian and compassionate grounds, while demonizing the male suspect, often citing back to other irrelevant experiences of abused woman in non-criminal case contexts. But it does not address whether or not the female suspect engaged in criminal activity specific to the case.
 
This "male moulds female" storyline is farce IMO. Why couldn't she have "moulded" him instead? Its an incredibly biased assertion from the get go that immediately takes sides with the female suspect on compassionate grounds on just that basis alone. As discussed in the past, if she is guilty, as with most murderous couples, both people are 'messed up' to begin with. Both will have psychopathic tendencies. Both might be sexual deviants. Shared motivations and interests is what drove them into violent crime making them a match made in hell. If she had not met him, perhaps they both wouldn't have done what they did.

The duration of their relationship is also so long, that you can't pinpoint who 'moulded' who. She might have been young when they first got together, but she grew up along the way in their long relationship together. She might have been young by way of age, but her mind might be mature. Maybe even more mature than the male at the time they met. Clearly it seems she was more mature right now than he was, based on some of the interrogation videos I've seen. Maybe she could have "moulded" him. Who knows? Age doesn't mean anything. Plenty of leaders are younger than their subordinates. "Moulding" is a mind game and its what's up there in the head that counts most. Not age, not gender, not physical size/strength. Plus, she was the one engaging him with all those text messages about kidnapping strangers. So that automatically throws out the theory she is an innocent wallflower being strung along.

Ultimately, this whole narrative adds nothing tangible. Its to buy sympathy basically. Its trying to prop the female suspect up on humanitarian and compassionate grounds, while demonizing the male suspect, often citing back to other irrelevant experiences of abused woman in non-criminal case contexts. But it does not address whether or not the female suspect engaged in criminal activity specific to the case.

I think we're approaching this case from entirely different mindsets and will probably just end up going round in circles, so just going to say that I respectfully disagree :) also just want to point out that I've read all of the forums, articles, evidence etc regarding this case very in depth, so I definitely have not come to my conclusions just by automatically deciding to side with SH from the get go. I've come to these conclusions after lots of reading and contemplating (sounds so pretentious, oh well!) and I completely stick by what I said re: the relationship being of utmost importance to the case. I do think that SH has been controlled and moulded by NM, but not just because I've seen the brief outlines of the case and automatically thought, "right! I want the female to be innocent, so how can I make this all fit?" But the discussion doesn't seem to be a particularly popular one here, so I think I'm going to bow out for a bit!
 
Yet she said in another interview that she wanted out of the relationship and hoped he would meet someone else and leave her?

So surely this is the opportunity she has been waiting for. But all of a sudden she is worried about what he has done to their relationship?

The horrible relationship she apparently couldn't escape from.

Another contradiction?

Yes it was that bad I decided to get pregnant again, with my non existent sex life this whole case is driving me nuts:gaah:
 
Here's the other narrative to this whole case that is a distraction also: the idea that Becky is anorexic.

It might help to portray the fact the victim may have been marginalized by her family and specifically by the suspects on grounds of the victim's eating disorder, or her supposed vanity. But I'm not sure what the benefit is to making clear the fact Becky was having eating disorders with the purpose of looking good. I don't see how that benefits the case much. Just another distraction.

Its as if these testimonies about her anorexia serves as "justification" for the female suspect's sickening portrayal of the poor victim (the female suspect did say Becky was anorexic to try to look womanly, etc). Its like they're trying to say: "Seee... told you so. She was right. Becky was anorexic. Ha! Just spoke the truth. Everybody knows."

Ultimately, I don't care if Becky was anorexic, or even a bratty teenager. Who wasn't a bratty teenager when they were young? But these are no reason to justify what had happened to her. Its sick to even suggest, by even some posters here, that she sorta had it coming because Becky was a little bratty and a "madame" that rubbed some sociopaths the wrong way. The case here involves someone being brutally murdered and her body mutilated. Whether or not she was a brat or an ice-queen or a selfie lover or takes two showers a day or likes to get the attention of guys at school, it has no bearing on anything tangible to the murder case, other than if spoken by the suspects as it sheds light on their mindset.

BIB
Please don't start this again. :hand: As far as I am aware, no poster here has made any such claims.
 
SH may be lying about the abuse/controlling nature of the relationship, but just wanted to point out that it is completely possible for women to stay in relationships with their abusers and get pregnant, married, not leave when they have a chance, etc. The incapability to leave a relationship that is violent and abusive (despite having what appears to be many chances to leave) is one of its defining features.

Not saying that SH is doing this but many women do and I don't think it's fair for us to cast judgement on it, really.
 
I get what you are saying, and I agree. The evidence being given of an apparent abusive relationship, the control, the past incidence of being strangled, his crazy behaviour, the restrictions he put on her and so on, all sounds like it is being used to defend someone's actions or to explain someone's actions ................. yet SH is claiming she is innocent of all the charges.

So, why does there need to be a picture painted of a damaged woman, a victim, a person pushed into doing things she didn't want to do, when she claims she didn't do anything anyway.

In a crazy way, the defending of her it makes it look more like she has something to answer for. Like excuses are being made, or reasons given, as to why she behaved like she did ........ when there is apparently no unlawful behaviour from her at all.

Exactly. Right now this is making no sense, and is ineffective to her defense on a best case, and at worst case makes her look complicit, after all she's such a follower right? Maybe she followed for the crime too, like always. I'm not sure its having the intended effect it should have, for those using these points to the suspect's defense.

I think if she had admitted to guilt in some parts of the crime, then she can pull the victim card as a means to reduce sentencing.

Right now, she is maintaining she is an innocent person. Innocent. Ok? So what's this whole narrative about being abused or moulded got to do with anything again? It doesnt. Its a distraction. Its basically working overtime to make damn sure you view her with in a compassionate and positive light. Its guilt tripping people towards a certain direction.
 
Any reason we're referring to SH as 'the female suspect' now? Reducing her to her sexual organs consistently seems a bit dehumanising and weird. And it's consistently making her sex the focus, when I really don't think it should be.
 
This case has so many twists and turns. And I really think that it's going to be a case of agree to disagree. Becuz we are a % of the trial thru. With much to go. More to find out. More witnesses to take the stand.
NM & SH'S relationship is going to be under the microscope I'm sure. If not in court but by the Jurors.
And I really do not envy the task they have before them.
They's no need to character assassinate each other. But to take part in healthy debate. There's no need for any of us to jump on another postee. .. We all have our on minds and we have freedom of speech. And it's useful healthy discussion that makes good reading here each day. 😊
 
Yes it was that bad I decided to get pregnant again, with my non existent sex life this whole case is driving me nuts:gaah:
My first post here - I've been a visitor due to Joanna Yeates, Tia Sharp, April Jones and now Becky, without becoming a member and have been trying for a week to join but my email couldn't be accepted but with emails to Tricia I'm now able to post.

The fact that SH has said she wanted the relationship to end but allows herself to get pregnant again does signal for me that maybe the intensity of being controlled wasn't really as she has said it was.
 
Sorry. I'm on heavy medication and sometimes my brain can't work my fingers quite right. 😊
 
hadn't seen this line before -

[FONT=open_sans]"Matthews, she said, had not researched anything about dismembering bodies."[/FONT][FONT=open_sans]

Read more: http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...tory-28055513-detail/story.html#ixzz3piMiuGgg
Follow us: @BristolPost on Twitter | bristolpost on Facebook

how does she know that?
[/FONT]

I found this bit interesting too:

Hoare also admitted that they had a Halloween mask, and Matthews had drills, screwdrivers and hammers for DIY – most of the time which he didn't get round to doing.

Read more: http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...tory-28055513-detail/story.html#ixzz3piPIwd2D
Follow us: @BristolPost on Twitter | bristolpost on Facebook

She didn't find it odd that he suddenly had found the time to do 3 days of DIY, just when his stepsister is missing and his family are convinced something terrible has happened to her?
 
BIB
Please don't start this again. :hand: As far as I am aware, no poster here has made any such claims.


You got there just before me Cherwell ........ I have not seen a single poster claiming any such thing.
 
I do not understand what point you are trying to make. These matters have been brought up in court as part of the evidence, and posters here have commented on it as with any other such matters.

Exactly! We are discussing what has been brought up in court. Discussing being the operative word of course. I think we should all calm down, go back to discussing what may or may not be & leave the judge & jury to the court room.
 
Exactly! We are discussing what has been brought up in court. Discussing being the operative word of course. I think we should all calm down, go back to discussing what may or may not be & leave the judge & jury to the court room.

Yep, me too. I'm going to head to bed now and step back a bit!
 
I get what you are saying, and I agree. The evidence being given of an apparent abusive relationship, the control, the past incidence of being strangled, his crazy behaviour, the restrictions he put on her and so on, all sounds like it is being used to defend someone's actions or to explain someone's actions ................. yet SH is claiming she is innocent of all the charges.

So, why does there need to be a picture painted of a damaged woman, a victim, a person pushed into doing things she didn't want to do, when she claims she didn't do anything anyway.

In a crazy way, the defending of her it makes it look more like she has something to answer for. Like excuses are being made, or reasons given, as to why she behaved like she did ........ when there is apparently no unlawful behaviour from her at all.

Exactly. I agree with this 100% and e-sherlockholmes who raised this point. SH has thrown her 'poor me' story in to the interviews as a distraction to what she is being asked about, and it shows how manipulative she is.

If it's not being used to excuse her behaviour then it's not relevant to the police interrogation. She seems to think she is there to assist the police with getting Nathan nailed for the crime, but he's already admitted his part and she is there to explain or justify her own suspicious behaviour. Its just a tactic and she seems to have learnt it pretty quickly if she hasn't already been used to using this particular skill of hers before.
 
I get what you are saying, and I agree. The evidence being given of an apparent abusive relationship, the control, the past incidence of being strangled, his crazy behaviour, the restrictions he put on her and so on, all sounds like it is being used to defend someone's actions or to explain someone's actions ................. yet SH is claiming she is innocent of all the charges.

So, why does there need to be a picture painted of a damaged woman, a victim, a person pushed into doing things she didn't want to do, when she claims she didn't do anything anyway.

In a crazy way, the defending of her it makes it look more like she has something to answer for. Like excuses are being made, or reasons given, as to why she behaved like she did ........ when there is apparently no unlawful behaviour from her at all.

i think a lot of people aren't saying that she was damaged and therefore was pushed into doing things as though it is a justification. I think a people are saying that perhaps she didn't commit the crime and although her behaviour seems odd and her answes seem strange,, this may be because of the abusive relationship, if indeed it was abusive.

The way I see it, there's two issues in relation to this.

1/ If SM was in an abusive relationship, was she conditioned enough to believe anything NM told her and therefore honestly didn't believe he was involved in BW's disappearance, even if to everyone else iit seems obvious.

2/ If SM was in an abusive relationship and was involved in some way in the crime , was this because of the apparent abusive relationship. It would not be a reason but it would be considered as mitigation in sentencing.

Then there's of course the option that she wasn't in an abusive relationship at all.
 
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