UK - Sabina Nessa, 28, found murdered in park, SE London, 18 Sep 2021 *Arrest*

[Lubilu]

I dont know what's scarier, a random attack or knowing your killer. It's just so awful and unthinkable.

Horrendous, isn't it. I dread to consider what happened to Sabina in her final moments. It must have been terrifying. I'm a 27 year old woman, trying to forge my life and career just as women like SN and SE were, but I'm moving out of London at the end of the month. While cases like SE's and SN's weren't necessarily a part of that decision, I'll feel much safer in my hometown, I think. London, for whatever reason, doesn't give me a lot of comfort right now.

 

[tayaway]

Horrendous, isn't it. I dread to consider what happened to Sabina in her final moments. It must have been terrifying. I'm a 27 year old woman, trying to forge my life and career just as women like SN and SE were, but I'm moving out of London at the end of the month. While cases like SE's and SN's weren't necessarily a part of that decision, I'll feel much safer in my hometown, I think. London, for whatever reason, doesn't give me a lot of comfort right now.

We women just never know, so all you can do is live each day -- and keep an eye peeled, no matter where you are walking.

 

[sriraaacha]

Haven't posted in this thread yet I don't think, but been following this story since it happened.

At first tbh I was thinking it may have been random (although having said that, random attacks are VERY unlikely, there's usually some motive or reason behind why that person was chosen). Now I'm kinda feeling as though it was a planned/targetted attack though, mainly because 1. why would a man be carrying a hammer around? 2. it was very close to her home, seemingly before she'd even gotten to the park, so it was probably somebody waiting on her 3. this "old friend" sounds a bit dodgy. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough though, it's just so sad.

Also just going to point out that it's no less safe as a female than a male imo (coming from a female). There are plenty of knife attacks, shootings, muggings etc that rarely happen to females and nearly always males on a daily basis. There's always a risk every day for anybody though, however let's remember that cases like this are not common when considered how many people live in London and walk places all the time at all times of the day.

 

[Coach]

Could the ‘date’ have been set up and planned by a jilted jealous/unstable ex as some sort of test to see if she would go ahead with it? Could the man in the CCTV be the accomplice who was the date (due to meet her at the bar) or the actual killer?

 

[SouthLondon85]

Morning everyone. I was so hoping there might have been some developments overnight in terns of an arrest or charge. Fully agree re SM: my sister and two of my closest friends are teachers and they are all on SM incognitio. If I get time with work today I will have a look at the profiles her sister (who is on Twitter) follows and see if there are any likely ones.

 

[JosieJo]

Having slept on this im more confused than ever....just some thoughts that are running through my head.

The cctv man presumably isn't known to SNs family and friends if police are asking for ^identity "

A time stamp on the cctv would help with trying to piece this together but the police obviously want that kept close to their chest at the moment

The two first arrests possibly didn't have enough reason for the police to apply for an extension to question further

As suggested further up the thread a stalker is an interesting thought

 

[Sarahlou]

Horrendous, isn't it. I dread to consider what happened to Sabina in her final moments. It must have been terrifying. I'm a 27 year old woman, trying to forge my life and career just as women like SN and SE were, but I'm moving out of London at the end of the month. While cases like SE's and SN's weren't necessarily a part of that decision, I'll feel much safer in my hometown, I think. London, for whatever reason, doesn't give me a lot of comfort right now.

I'm hoping that if she was hit over the head from behind and knocked out then she wouldn't have known much about it. Wishful thinking I know, as it's awful to think of her being fully aware of what was happening.

 

[Vaccine]

Haven't posted in this thread yet I don't think, but been following this story since it happened.

At first tbh I was thinking it may have been random (although having said that, random attacks are VERY unlikely, there's usually some motive or reason behind why that person was chosen). Now I'm kinda feeling as though it was a planned/targetted attack though, mainly because 1. why would a man be carrying a hammer around? 2. it was very close to her home, seemingly before she'd even gotten to the park, so it was probably somebody waiting on her 3. this "old friend" sounds a bit dodgy. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough though, it's just so sad.

Also just going to point out that it's no less safe as a female than a male imo (coming from a female). There are plenty of knife attacks, shootings, muggings etc that rarely happen to females and nearly always males on a daily basis. There's always a risk every day for anybody though, however let's remember that cases like this are not common when considered how many people live in London and walk places all the time at all times of the day.

My instinct is also that it's not random. But men who wish to harm women - any women - do carry weapons around to attack them. So its possible but as you say rarer, for it to be a stranger . See Sarah Everard and Amelie Delagrange. The victim is random but the perp is planning on attacking women.

 

[JosephineRobert]

Good morning All,

Lots of interesting posts.

CCTV man and the silver car are stumping me.

Surely the police would be able to track the car to its final destination that night using ANPR? They mention the man has access to the car - so assume not the registered owner - but they must know who the registered owner is. So seems the registered owner can’t/won’t identify the person on CCTV?

 

[Spyder84]

Sorry to repeat anything already said, but I dropped off the thread to await the outcome of the 2nd male arrested as I felt that the police were going through the motions and sadly it looks to be the case.

This means the likely hood that this is a stranger attack is now very real, the man in the CCTV, imo, seems to more then just a person of interest, his movements are suspicious and I genuinely think the police need to i.d that man asap.

Meanwhile, knowing there is a murderer out there frightens me, but question is now, what has motivated this? Mental health, a grudge [If he was known to Sabina] or just a psychopath... The latter is a terrifying prospect

 

[Spyder84]

Good morning All,

Lots of interesting posts.

CCTV man and the silver car are stumping me.

Surely the police would be able to track the car to its final destination that night using ANPR? They mention the man has access to the car - so assume not the registered owner - but they must know who the registered owner is. So seems the registered owner can’t/won’t identify the person on CCTV?

If they are still trying to i.d the vehicle that implies it avoided ANPR, meaning it was either driven by someone who knows the area very well or someone who went to great lengths to avoid detection ie: false reg plate - If that's the case this that is very pre-meditated.

Of course, it could be the case that they have identified the vehicle but are playing it dumb, waiting for more witnesses to come forward before nabbing the suspect but that's a dangerous game to play, unless they have him under surveillance which I think is unlikely.

 

[Lod76]

My instinct is also that it's not random. But men who wish to harm women - any women - do carry weapons around to attack them. So its possible but as you say rarer, for it to be a stranger . See Sarah Everard and Amelie Delagrange. The victim is random but the perp is planning on attacking women.

It is possible but a man attacking a lone women usually has a sexual motive and in these cases is a stranger more often than not. It's possible that is the case here but it would be more likely he'd be hiding in the bushes in the park rather than wait outside her flat to attack her and then carry her 400 metres? to continue his assault. Could be the other kind of random where someone with "mental health issues" has just randomly carried out an horrific attack. But I don't see it as this either as it's not likely they would get very far and they'd be quickly apprehended.

So it looks more likely its someone known to her. Could be someone not so close like a neighbour or colleague or someone she knows through her daily activities in a stalker type scenario or some sort of dispute. After that you end up with her close circle friends, lovers, ex lovers, family etc and more personal reasons. I'm not so sure the attacker who appears to be the man in the CCTV is known to her at all and it looks more likely someone else orchestrated the attack.

There are probably plenty of other scenarios but I can't think of them.

 

[Spyder84]

@Lod76 That's an interesting theory that this was orchestrated by someone else... But why not just leave her there in the street, the idea of carrying someone 400 meters seems so strange, unless of course the orchestrated attack went wrong & he panicked.

But in saying that, a stalker scenario could have led this man to meticulously plan the attack, scoping out the street, getting a good sense of neighbours routines etc or if it was someone living in the same street or surrounds, then it wouldn't take much planning for example I know most of my neighbours routines and they probably know mine.

 

[Lod76]

@Lod76 That's an interesting theory that this was orchestrated by someone else... But why not just leave her there in the street, the idea of carrying someone 400 meters seems so strange, unless of course the orchestrated attack went wrong & he panicked.

But in saying that, a stalker scenario could have led this man to meticulously plan the attack, scoping out the street, getting a good sense of neighbours routines etc or if it was someone living in the same street or surrounds, then it wouldn't take much planning for example I know most of my neighbours routines and they probably know mine.

Well my first reaction was it was a random attack by a sexual predator when I read about a body being found in a park. That was until of course the details of the actual attack became known. So it could be to give that false impression but I think it was more likely to buy some time. Had there been people around he may have just made his get away immediately in sheer panic but if it was quiet he could have taken advantage of the opportunity to conceal her body and give himself more time to make a get away and as it turns out he had a full day before anyone even knew about it. So maybe he just got lucky and took advantage of the fact it was deserted.

 

[Lod76]

I should add this again leads me to think he was doing some sort of "job" on her.

 

[Skigh]

Good morning All,

Lots of interesting posts.

CCTV man and the silver car are stumping me.

Surely the police would be able to track the car to its final destination that night using ANPR? They mention the man has access to the car - so assume not the registered owner - but they must know who the registered owner is. So seems the registered owner can’t/won’t identify the person on CCTV?

I have had the same thoughts as you about the car. Would the police use the term 'have access to ' if the car had been previously stolen therefore the police not being able to trace the person currently driving it?
Given the amount of cameras in London I would have thought any journey taken could be tracked .

I think it is possible that the police have an idea who he might be.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Sorry to repeat anything already said, but I dropped off the thread to await the outcome of the 2nd male arrested as I felt that the police were going through the motions and sadly it looks to be the case.

This means the likely hood that this is a stranger attack is now very real, the man in the CCTV, imo, seems to more then just a person of interest, his movements are suspicious and I genuinely think the police need to i.d that man asap.

Meanwhile, knowing there is a murderer out there frightens me, but question is now, what has motivated this? Mental health, a grudge [If he was known to Sabina] or just a psychopath... The latter is a terrifying prospect

IMO whether it is likely to be random depends on whether the CCTV shows, as the Telegraph claimed (seemingly in a leak and not official), Sabina being attacked by someone directly after leaving her flat. I see what you mean, this may just be a video of a random guy turning things over in his hands and looking around outside her flat but there being other video evidence was suggested.

The police haven’t confirmed that, but if Sabina was accosted on her doorstep, then to me, the balance tips back in favour of her knowing her killer again somehow, rather than being a random victim, because why target that address and her specifically rather than a random girl walking through a local park? — much more likely to be caught and not the “crime of opportunity” that some attacks on women on their own can sadly be.

However, for some reason the person in the CCTV, if it exists, attacking Sabina is not a connection the Police have been able to find or nail down. So I am thinking the idea of a stalker has some merit to it. If this is someone for whom Sabina was important, but he was not important to her, he won’t be on the police radar, because friends & family won’t know him etc, but he will have taken some unusual interest in Sabina.

I would expect there to be some connection someone could find but also then again, stalkers have been known to fixate on people they’ve met only briefly or barely know at all. An acquaintance of mine was stalked by someone she met once or twice when he provided her with goods & services (not to be too specific) and briefly interacted with. She couldn’t remember him really at all but due to her being a customer, he had all of her details. Quite terrifying…

The other reason in favour of it being someone she somewhat knew is the major coincidence of it being the same night as a first date with a potential new boyfriend. I don’t see any social media for Sabina but if (pure speculation) she wrote “Date Night” on a private Instagram someone was looking at or something like that, that could have triggered someone to act.

 

[JosieJo]

From what we have from the police themselves I suppose it's not impossible yet that he carried her to a car and placed her in the park during the night.

If this is a case of a stalker / pest / rejected man its likely she mentioned this to someone

I'm still reluctant to think along the lines of a contract type killing or multiple people involved but its obviously not impossible

 

[Marulinka]

Can somebody confirm whether police would make it known by now if post mortem proved that SN was assaulted sexually? I just wonder if there is no evidence of sexual assault then therr must have been some other motive (IMO too random for it to be just a complete lunatic with hammer out of blue - although yes even that happened before).

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Can somebody confirm whether police would make it known by now if post mortem proved that SN was assaulted sexually? I just wonder if there is no evidence of sexual assault then therr must have been some other motive (IMO too random for it to be just a complete lunatic with hammer out of blue - although yes even that happened before).

There is no fixed rule on this, so we don’t know. Sometimes this is disclosed early on and sometimes not, depends what is felt helpful for the investigation. I also note (not to be too graphic) some sexual gratification killers don’t sexually assault their victim or if they do, don’t actually go so far as to rape them, but derive sexual pleasure from the killing aspect itself & thinking about it later, so that can still be a motivation without evidence of rape.