UK - Sara Sharif, 10, found murdered in house, Surrey, Aug 2023 *POIs sought*

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Mentions in the news report that Faisal Malik here on a student visa- 28 is quite old to be a student, wonder if he overstayed and that’s why he fled with them, knowing they’d all be under scrutiny.

It's not that old for an international student - I did some work at the local ex-poly during Freshers week last year and honestly the vast majority of students they seem to be bringing in were older students on one year post-grad courses, mostly from countries like Nigeria, China, India, Pakistan and suchlike. Some of them seemed to have questionable levels of English.

I also rent out my spare room to a lodger and at this time of year Spareroom is flooded with adverts from international students from the local ex-poly who like to specify that they're only willing to live with straight people who don't own any pets (err, I don't think we're compatible ) and many have a completely unrealistic budget (e.g. £300pm).

International students are a complete cash cow for the universities, and the local ex-poly seems to be bringing in a lot of them with low entry requirements, mismanaged expectations and no plan to house them.

But - back to the point in hand - a significant proportion of international students, especially postgraduates, are older and Faisal being 28 and a student isn't a red flag for me.
 
They really do need to tighten up on home education, and bring in a system of compulsory registration and education / welfare checks.

Time and again we have seen cases where children are removed from school under the guise of home education to avoid the signs of abuse and neglect being identified. In this case Sara went to school with visible injuries, claimed to have fallen off her bike and was removed from school the next day.

Home educators often say that local authorities have the same rights and responsibilities towards HE and schooled children, but the reality is that parents can refuse any interaction with education services and if no outside adult is seeing the child, there's no one to raise safeguarding concerns, and so there's nothing the police or SS can do, as happened in the Dylan Seabridge case
A well-placed council source said that officials did try to visit Dylan but were denied access to him. They had no evidence that he was being mistreated so did not have the power to force the Seabridges to show them the child. Boy who died of scurvy 'invisible' to authorities, says leaked report
I do wonder that if the parents hadn't called an ambulance but had simply buried him on the smallholding and carried on as before - would anyone have noticed? No one in authority had seen him for many years.

Home education was also cited as being a key issue for Khyra Ishaq who starved to death

Khyra's home education 'helped conceal abuse'

Then there are the less famous, non-fatal but equally horrific cases like this girl who was never allowed to leave the house and was repeatedly raped by her own father while the family claimed to be home educating. The only reason anyone ever knew was that the parents split up and the mother went to the police.
Couple kept daughter locked away and subjected her to years of rapes and abuse

There are a lot of very vocal middle class parents who are doing HE for the right reasons, keeping their children safe and providing an acceptable or good level of education. There are also some equally vocal, well meaning middle class parents who keep their kids safe but don't provide an adequate education.

Most of them, and there's one upthread, seem to think that because the home education circles they are moving in are full of parents doing their best, that everyone claiming to home educate is like the people they know. Clearly that isn't the case.

Then there are the children who are removed, or never sent to school, because their parents wish to hide the signs of abuse and neglect. They would benefit greatly from registrations and inspections, because then the abuse and neglect would stand a good chance of being identified.

There are the travellers families who claim to home educate after 11 but actually provide zero education in reality, with the parents often having low levels of literacy. Their options for the future are being severely curtailed by home education being used as a smokescreen for no education. They would also benefit greatly from inspections and being returned to school if the education is deemed inadequate.

There are the SEN children who end up home educated because the schools don't have suitable provision for them - a different kettle of fish, and I'm sure they'd be only too happy to make use of a suitable school place, which ought to be provided.

We cannot know which group each family falls into without a system of registration and regular inspections.

It's not the home educated kids who go to Brownies, take guitar lessons, learn about maths by baking cakes and do lessons with InterHigh that I'm worried about - but it's their parents who are vocal in opposing any form of registration or inspection, despite the clear benefits it would have for other children. Their opposition really is incredibly selfish.

Here is an example of a website by and for home educators in which they recommend against allowing visits, tell you that if you decide to allow visits the inspector doesn't need to see or speak to the children, or see their work, and that at no point should the inspector be left alone with the child in case they ask they child if they want to attend school (why are they so afraid of that question being asked?)
Home Education UK

In the UK if you want to do something as mundane as baking birthday cakes and selling them from your home, there is compulsory registration and inspection by the local authority, and you are held to damn near the same standards as a full scale restaurant. They will then publish a rating of how clean and otherwise compliant your kitchen is for all the world to see. Refusing to register or be inspected is a criminal offence. Why is it that in the UK we care more about cake hygiene than the welfare of children?

The system of welfare and education checks on home educated children is utterly toothless, and if we were as concerned about children as we are about cake hygiene then perhaps Sara, Khyra and Dylan would still be alive.
 
Homeschooling is not the problem. Abusers are the problem.

Sometimes teachers are abusers.

jmo

Home education is a problem when it allows abusive parents to keep their children away from non-family adults who might notice problems, or the child might trust enough to confide in.

Children who are in school have multiple people looking out for their welfare, and can build up enough of a relationship with a teacher to disclose abuse.

Teachers can be abusers too, but there are far more safety protocols in place to prevent or quickly stop it from happening.

Home education is the most convenient smokescreen for an abusive or neglectful parents to keep professionals away from their children.

When home education is done well, I'm all for it. But we can't know who's doing it well and who is failing their children without a system of compulsory registration and inspections.
 
Homeschooling is not the problem. Abusers are the problem.

Sometimes teachers are abusers.

jmo
Some control must be executed IMO.
It mustn't be allowed for kids to become invisible to Educational System.
Children have a RIGHT to education.
Where I live, home schooled children must pass national end of term exams.

JMO
 
"The grandfather of a 10-year-old girl found dead at home in Woking has urged his fugitive son to hand himself in.

Speaking to the Sunday Times, Muhammad Sharif urged his son Urfan, 41, his son’s partner, Beinash Batool, 29, and Urfan’s brother Faisal Malik, 28, to hand themselves in to police.

Muhammad Sharif, 68, said his son had briefly visited the family home in the city of Jhelum, Punjab province, this month before he disappeared again.

Sharif said his son did not tell him about Sara’s death.

“We want them to present themselves,” Sharif told the paper.

We want them to resolve the matter as the privacy of our house is affected due to frequent police raids.”

 
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They really do need to tighten up on home education, and bring in a system of compulsory registration and education / welfare checks.

Time and again we have seen cases where children are removed from school under the guise of home education to avoid the signs of abuse and neglect being identified. In this case Sara went to school with visible injuries, claimed to have fallen off her bike and was removed from school the next day.

Home educators often say that local authorities have the same rights and responsibilities towards HE and schooled children, but the reality is that parents can refuse any interaction with education services and if no outside adult is seeing the child, there's no one to raise safeguarding concerns, and so there's nothing the police or SS can do, as happened in the Dylan Seabridge case

I do wonder that if the parents hadn't called an ambulance but had simply buried him on the smallholding and carried on as before - would anyone have noticed? No one in authority had seen him for many years.

Home education was also cited as being a key issue for Khyra Ishaq who starved to death

Khyra's home education 'helped conceal abuse'

Then there are the less famous, non-fatal but equally horrific cases like this girl who was never allowed to leave the house and was repeatedly raped by her own father while the family claimed to be home educating. The only reason anyone ever knew was that the parents split up and the mother went to the police.
Couple kept daughter locked away and subjected her to years of rapes and abuse

There are a lot of very vocal middle class parents who are doing HE for the right reasons, keeping their children safe and providing an acceptable or good level of education. There are also some equally vocal, well meaning middle class parents who keep their kids safe but don't provide an adequate education.

Most of them, and there's one upthread, seem to think that because the home education circles they are moving in are full of parents doing their best, that everyone claiming to home educate is like the people they know. Clearly that isn't the case.

Then there are the children who are removed, or never sent to school, because their parents wish to hide the signs of abuse and neglect. They would benefit greatly from registrations and inspections, because then the abuse and neglect would stand a good chance of being identified.

There are the travellers families who claim to home educate after 11 but actually provide zero education in reality, with the parents often having low levels of literacy. Their options for the future are being severely curtailed by home education being used as a smokescreen for no education. They would also benefit greatly from inspections and being returned to school if the education is deemed inadequate.

There are the SEN children who end up home educated because the schools don't have suitable provision for them - a different kettle of fish, and I'm sure they'd be only too happy to make use of a suitable school place, which ought to be provided.

We cannot know which group each family falls into without a system of registration and regular inspections.

It's not the home educated kids who go to Brownies, take guitar lessons, learn about maths by baking cakes and do lessons with InterHigh that I'm worried about - but it's their parents who are vocal in opposing any form of registration or inspection, despite the clear benefits it would have for other children. Their opposition really is incredibly selfish.

Here is an example of a website by and for home educators in which they recommend against allowing visits, tell you that if you decide to allow visits the inspector doesn't need to see or speak to the children, or see their work, and that at no point should the inspector be left alone with the child in case they ask they child if they want to attend school (why are they so afraid of that question being asked?)
Home Education UK

In the UK if you want to do something as mundane as baking birthday cakes and selling them from your home, there is compulsory registration and inspection by the local authority, and you are held to damn near the same standards as a full scale restaurant. They will then publish a rating of how clean and otherwise compliant your kitchen is for all the world to see. Refusing to register or be inspected is a criminal offence. Why is it that in the UK we care more about cake hygiene than the welfare of children?

The system of welfare and education checks on home educated children is utterly toothless, and if we were as concerned about children as we are about cake hygiene then perhaps Sara, Khyra and Dylan would still be alive.
I'm not against home schooling when it's done right, but the checks just aren't there, or acted upon when they are. It doesn't have to be people with malicious intentions who fail their kids either. Neglect or inability to raise kids can also have terrible outcomes. If they're struggling at school it seems too easy to just take them out and leave them to their own devices.


 
Some control must be executed IMO.
It mustn't be allowed for kids to become invisible to Educational System.
Children have a RIGHT to education.
Where I live, home schooled children must pass national end of term exams.

JMO
There has been a rise of home schooling in the UK as a result of the pandemic and unfortunately not all the necessary checks are taking place. Many vulnerable children have been left exposed.
 

Their Pakistani counterparts revealed last night they are closing in on Sharif, Batool and Malik. after they identified an active Pakistani SIM card registered in Sharif's name.
Why would they publicly state this? If it's true, and they aren't running some sort of psy-op to trick the guy, stating publicly "Oh we've found the phone and we're hot on the trail." Is the quickest way for the person on the run to change tact.
 
Can we please not start bashing home education? (not aimed at you, @Legally Bland, but in general) My now-adult kiddo was unschooled from birth and we've been part of an extensive and thriving home-ed community for 20+ years. These families are incredibly diverse in their approaches to 'education otherwise than in school', as is their right, from 'following the curriculum' at one end of the scale to 'facilitating 100% autonomous learning' at the other (like us), and everything in between. All have nuanced, legitimate reasons for electing not to send their children into institutionalised educational settings, or for removing them from them. I have personally fiercely and proactively defended their/our rights to do so for 2 decades, in the face of much discrimination and attempted government over-reach threatening to violate our rights.

What happened to Sara has NOTHING to do with home educators in the UK as a community or as individuals, IMO. Not one of the hundreds of home-educating families we came into contact with kept their kids home in order to hide abuse.
Whilst it seems pretty clear (IMO) that poor little Sara's 'family' did just that, their heinous actions ought not to lead to tarring all home-edders with the same awful brush. The vast majority of people who choose to educate outside of a school setting are passionately dedicated to raising their children in ways that suit their individual circumstances and aptitudes, in my experience. If this incident is used to further besmirch home education, it will be a travesty. All MOO, ofc.
Leave legitimate home educators out of this, please. People who remove their children from schools in order to facilitate their abuse are the problem here, not the large number of dedicated, freedom-loving families who choose this way of life at least in part to protect OUR children from bureaucratic interference and government overreach.
 
Leave legitimate home educators out of this, please. People who remove their children from schools in order to facilitate their abuse are the problem here, not the large number of dedicated, freedom-loving families who choose this way of life at least in part to protect OUR children from bureaucratic interference and government overreach.
Fully agreed. I felt forced to home-school my oldest for her 1st/2nd years of school, because the school the council offered us what absolutely atrocious. Home-schooling doesn't = abuse. Just like being a Muslim family doesn't = abuse. Etc.
 
How do you manage to flee and stay in hiding with 5 kids?

Are they staying with relatives/friends?

But IMO news spread like fire, and who would stick one's neck out for criminals?
Even family's loyalty has its limits.

Or maybe they rent some place under false names?
But then they would need money.

I wonder if the uncle is still with them.
He might have separated and made his own fleeing stunt.

I hope they will be caught.
Will the kids stay in P with the relatives in this case?
 
Why would they publicly state this? If it's true, and they aren't running some sort of psy-op to trick the guy, stating publicly "Oh we've found the phone and we're hot on the trail." Is the quickest way for the person on the run to change tact.
All these leaks might mean they are already arrested.
There are Court procedures to be followed.

But the public will be informed only when they are safely locked in cells in the UK.

Never sooner.

Or am I overly optimistic? :rolleyes:

JMO
 
All these leaks might mean they are already arrested.
There are Court procedures to be followed.

But the public will be informed only when they are safely locked in cells in the UK.

Never sooner.

Or am I overly optimistic? :rolleyes:

JMO
After researching corruption in Pakistani courts, law, government, and police, I have become overly pessimistic. I'll be shocked if the three suspects ever reach British soil again. My opinion.
 
Leave legitimate home educators out of this, please. People who remove their children from schools in order to facilitate their abuse are the problem here, not the large number of dedicated, freedom-loving families who choose this way of life at least in part to protect OUR children from bureaucratic interference and government overreach.

How is anyone going to tell the difference between legitimate home educators and those using it to facilitate abuse if no one is inspecting?
 
How is anyone going to tell the difference between legitimate home educators and those using it to facilitate abuse if no one is inspecting?
Inspectors check the conditions the child has to have for learning - a place with a desk, adequate light, shelves/drawers for books, etc.(in my country)

Did Sara have such a place for herself?

Oh wait,
She was a free child minder/babysitter for her "family".

Her right to be an educated person was trampled on.

She was to be a servant and future submissve wife, not a professional woman.

And guess what?
Nobody cared.

Did anybody raise an alarm seeing her bruised, cut, subdued?

Nope.

Oh,
and nobody heard anything when she was being beaten and murdered.

To add,

and now ppl say that her murderers cannot face Justice.

Why?

Because they hopped into a plane and
Flew Into the Sunset!

o_O

JMO
 
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Leave legitimate home educators out of this, please. People who remove their children from schools in order to facilitate their abuse are the problem here, not the large number of dedicated, freedom-loving families who choose this way of life at least in part to protect OUR children from bureaucratic interference and government overreach.
I'm not sure what you're replying to (it seems to be yourself), but what do you mean by government overreach?
 
I am not sure how the grandfather can know if his son is on the verge of handing himself in if he has had no contact with him.




Speaking from the family home in Jehlum, 85 miles from the capital Islamabad, Muhammad Sharif said: “As far as I know, my son and his wife are willing to surrender and they will do so soon,”

The grandfather, 68, claimed he had not seen Urfan since he returned to Pakistan and had no knowledge of how Sara died.

“I don’t know where they are but I can tell that they are not in Jehlum.”

He spoke after Jehlum police chief Nasir Bajwa said he expected to find the suspects soon. He said on Saturday: “With God’s will we will make the arrest by tomorrow night.” Sources said police raided at least one address in Mirpur, Kashmir, on Saturday but the suspects were not found.

It is understood the police hunt is focusing on Mirpur where Batool’s family home is situated.
 
Mentions in the news report that Faisal Malik here on a student visa- 28 is quite old to be a student, wonder if he overstayed and that’s why he fled with them, knowing they’d all be under scrutiny.

I can't speak for the UK, but the average age of graduate school in the US is 26 - 28. So no, it actually isn't too old the US. Doubt it would be in the UK either.

MOO.
 
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