Deceased/Not Found UK - Steven Clark, 23, disabled, Saltburn, Dec 1992

[Skigh]

Is this a particularly upmarket neighborhood? That looks like a rather large house for a family of four- and on a retired policeman’s salary/pension. Perhaps a settlement received after Steven’s accident helped to pay for it. Could there have been an argument about money before Steven’s disappearance?

Many of the reports say Charles worked in finance which is usually pretty well paid.
We have debated whether he was actually a serving police officer or worked in another role,perhaps to do with finance.
Before they moved to Marske,they lived in Guildford,Surrey which is a very expensive area of the country,a 2 bedroom terrace these days would be between£300,000 and £400,000 if not more .They could have had equity from their house sale to buy the house in Marske.
There is also the possibility of inheriting money from either set of parents.

 

[Morag]

I’d be interested to learn more about the curriculum at Rathbone, particularly the part about managing finances.

 

[Skigh]

I’d be interested to learn more about the curriculum at Rathbone, particularly the part about managing finances.

I do not think he that would particularly apply to Steven as he was living at home and not having to be responsible for managing finances.
I imagine they cater for a large range of circumstances from people with mild disabilities living in ,perhaps, sheltered accommodation and living quite independently to people like Steven living at home.So not all course would be applicable to all students.

It has also been reported that Steven lived in South Africa when he was young so his accident could have happened there and the compensation paid by insurance for accidents might not have been the same as here.
I do not think the parents have been keeping any money due to Steven for themselves.

 

[Funky funky]

I’d be interested to learn more about the curriculum at Rathbone, particularly the part about managing finances.

Having worked in social security, due to Steven’s mental disabilities, he would likely be classed as non compis mentis and therefore would be deemed mentally incapable of managing his financial affairs or he would require help at least. It’s likely his mother or father were his appointee for benefit purposes, meaning that all benefits would be paid to them and any forms would need to be signed by them. This is all depending on the severity of his mental disability though.
If the story about the argument over the ticket is true, then it would appear that he was given some control or pocket money from his disability benefits.

 

[Lyanna]

This is what they do:

1. We provide support for people with learning disabilities/difficulties to live as independently as possible in their own homes and local community. This can include support to access training, further education, volunteering and employment opportunities; securing and maintaining safe accommodation; accessing health services, managing finances and a range of social and leisure activities.

RBBM

This sounds like there could have been the potential to support Steven to take steps to more independent living based on what they state they do - maybe Steven was looking to moving into a supported living environment/living independently and out of the family home?

eta - Maybe this was hard for some of his loved ones to understand and cope with?

 

[Skigh]

RBBM

This sounds like there could have been the potential to support Steven to take steps to more independent living based on what they state they do - maybe Steven was looking to moving into a supported living environment/living independently and out of the family home?

eta - Maybe this was hard for some of his loved ones to understand and cope with?

I had thought about that,but it would have been very local and they would still see him.
I wonder if that would also have come out in their original story.Something similar to: Steven was so excited about moving into his own flat in the new year .
Would that be enough of a motive to kill him,unless a row happened about it.

 

[Lyanna]

I had thought about that,but it would have been very local and They would still see him.
I wonder if that would also have come out in their original story.Something similar to Steven was so excited about moving into his own flat in the new year .
Would that be enough of a motive to kill him,unless a row happened about it.

Not always local, some local authorities will place 'out of county' individuals in other areas some of whom are a long way from their family home - if Steven did want to move away for whatever reason - that could cause some arguments imo.

This is very strange - who simply disappears following using a public toilet?
Has anyone confirmed Mrs C's version and confirmed that Mr C was at the football match - I like to think so - that police force couldn't have been that bad surely, that they wouldn't carry out basic alibi confirmations, and what on earth has made the police look so hard at the parents after 28yrs?!

I hope their search for Steven is successful.

 

[Funky funky]

Not always local, some local authorities will place 'out of county' individuals in other areas some of whom are a long way from their family home - if Steven did want to move away for whatever reason - that could cause some arguments imo.

This is very strange - who simply disappears following using a public toilet?
Has anyone confirmed Mrs C's version and confirmed that Mr C was at the football match - I like to think so - that police force couldn't have been that bad surely, that they wouldn't carry out basic alibi confirmations, and what on earth has made the police look so hard at the parents after 28yrs?!

I hope their search for Steven is successful.

I hope we find out today if they have found anything. The more I think about their story, the more it stinks. Also, the fact that Steven hasn’t popped up anywhere throughout the years, to even claim assistance or benefits is very telling.

 

[ZaZara]

RBBM

This sounds like there could have been the potential to support Steven to take steps to more independent living based on what they state they do - maybe Steven was looking to moving into a supported living environment/living independently and out of the family home?

eta - Maybe this was hard for some of his loved ones to understand and cope with?

I worked for an organization that focussed on the employment and employabilty of people with various handicaps, both physical and mental and I can see Steven as a possible client. That is perhaps why I have a different take on his parents, I see their behaviour as part of the goal to steer Steven towards a more independent life.

Had Steven been a client of the organization I worked for, an extensive assessment would have been made of his physical and mental limitations and options and this would be the foundation of a plan. Parents, family and possible other organizations involved would be involved in the plan.

IMO there are some tiny indications that such a plan existed to some degree in Steven's case and that his parents were sticking to it:

His mother does not step into the gents to check if he is there. She treats his like the man of 23 years of age that he is, and not like a greenhouse plant in need of protection. (Would be different of course if he had like epilepsy, but there is no indication of that.)

His father tells him to pay for his own ticket and is ready to risk a row for that. That may have been tough, but NO is the only way to more independence.

Without knowing Steven, I can think of two major areas where he may have been at risk:
One would have been falling out with the wrong crowd who abused him for some reason, maybe offering him money.
The other would of course be "girls". He was a young man of 23 and it is not unthinkable that he yearned for a partner and would be susceptible to messages like so-and-so wants to meet you.

 

[Kasmeer]

Snipped from your post above @Kasmeer

Could it be that actually she did check, ask passers-by etc, but as it seems irrelevant today, it's just not being mentioned

----------------------------

This is a direct quote from Steven's mother, made last week when she was arrested.


Recalling the day he went missing, she added: “I stood directly in front of the exit, I don’t know for how long. I was there for quite a long time, just wondering what had happened to him.

“People say why did you not go in? But you would not for a 23-year-old man.”


Parents' 'nightmare' as they are quizzed over son's alleged murder

There is also this quote, made in 2004, which gives a slightly different impression


"When I came out, I did look around but then I thought, 'I'll just pop home and get the kettle on and be waiting for him,'" she says


'We can't ever give up hope'

I was going to just leave it last night after "liking" (aka thanking) these posts (although neither quote specifically says she didn't ask anyone around, which leaves open the possibility of poor reporting), but the whole thing about her wording just nags at me and stuck in my mind overnight... it looks SO bad to all of us, it almost makes me wonder if she's genuine after all! Because, if it's so obvious to us, surely someone trying to cover something up would see it too, and embellish it a bit? It'll be hard to clearly say what's in my mind, especially as it bugs me when threads degenerate into people trying to diagnose mental issues based on a few selected quotes, yet, what's quoted, really suggests some oddness with her thinking process.

In fact it's how I could see a more extreme version of myself thinking (I am on the autistic spectrum - I am NOT trying to diagnose her with that, just using context of my own thinking process to show how these quotes come across to me): "you would not for a 23-year-old man" - well yes, there's general social rules, and that sounds rather like rigid thinking; "it's not right to enter the opposite gender's toilet". If I were in a similar position, I'd think long and hard before doing so myself, because it's against the unwritten rules (and while asking a passing man to check is the obvious solution, there either might not have been a passing man on a cold December afternoon, or else I have severe social anxiety and would find that equally hard to do as it would be to break the "rules" and check myself). Giving up and going home to wait would be in line with what I might possibly do, too - actually I'd personally be more likely to end up just "stuck" standing there for hours, not doing anything, as my brain would run out of capacity to think, but I could see just returning to familiarity as an option too.

I'd really love to see more contemporary reports on what the parents were quoted as saying at the time, to see if it's changed over the years or remained consistent (bearing in mind people's memories usually don't remain exactly the same, details will change unconsciously but the major points should remain similar) as there's a few possibilities regarding these specific quotes, which don't necessarily imply guilt:

- The parents are responsible for Steven's disappearance and Mrs C is just doing a very poor job at covering up.
- The parents are responsible for Steven's disappearance and Mrs C is doing a good job at sticking to the script and not embellishing her story with any extra details which could cause questions to be asked about why she only "remembered" checking after 28 years!
- The parents are responsible for Steven's disappearance and Mrs C is somewhat stressed by it, maybe losing some memory after 28 years (she is 81 after all), and clinging to a few basic facts which are safe to mention.
- Mr C is responsible for Steven's disappearance and Mrs C is too scared to admit anything but too upset to do a better job at covering up/is sticking rigidly to the script.
- The parents are actually not responsible for Steven's disappearance and Mrs C has some unusual ways of thinking, so did a poor job of checking at the time, and does an equally poor job of expressing concern for her missing son.
- The parents are actually not responsible for Steven's disappearance and Mrs C actually checked rather better than we think but is losing her memory and clinging to the few facts she remembers for sure.
- The parents are actually not responsible for Steven's disappearance and Mrs C actually checked rather better than we think but poor reporting has focussed too much on a few quotes which make her look bad and support the narrative that the parents are responsible.

No doubt the actual truth will be none of these, or some other combination! Everything I read makes them sound guilty, and gives me a bad feeling about them, and yet... it doesn't sit quite right with me because I just think a guilty party would make more effort to cover up.

 

[trendsetter]

Cleveland police looks fairly dysfunctional - or at least, it has been; so it's not too surprising that a cold case review will show leads that have been overlooked or ignored - hence the search of the grounds of Outwood Academy Bydales and areas adjacent. Presumably, there are enough serious inconsistencies in evidence for them to suspect the parents. There doesn't seem to be any new evidence - just new interpretations of the existing evidence (which I assume is almost or entirely in the form of witness statements).

Today's media are reporting the search of the parents' property which seems to include digging. Spades spotted as search of Steven Clark's parents' home continues

 

[Skigh]

Not always local, some local authorities will ver reason - that
Has anyone confirmed Mrs C's version and confirmed that Mr C was at the football match - I like to alibi confirmations, and what on earth has made the police look so hard at the parents after 28yrs?!

I hope their search for Steven is

I don’t know much about the daughter but I have seen a guy commenting on Facebook saying that Steven was his cousin. He’s now living in Australia

Apparently they did have an allotment. However I’m not sure if it is one directly behind their house. There are 2 other allotment sites in Marske that I can think of so it could have been one of those.

There seems to be a media blackout as nothing seems to have been updated since Friday.
As our local eyes and ears could you update us on the searches?
Have you seen more police at the scene or anything significant such as a mortuary van ? Or have they moved the search else where.

Have you heard any more local gossip?

 

[beatrixpotter]

I was going to just leave it last night after "liking" (aka thanking) these posts (although neither quote specifically says she didn't ask anyone around, which leaves open the possibility of poor reporting), but the whole thing about her wording just nags at me and stuck in my mind overnight... it looks SO bad to all of us, it almost makes me wonder if she's genuine after all! Because, if it's so obvious to us, surely someone trying to cover something up would see it too, and embellish it a bit? It'll be hard to clearly say what's in my mind, especially as it bugs me when threads degenerate into people trying to diagnose mental issues based on a few selected quotes, yet, what's quoted, really suggests some oddness with her thinking process.

In fact it's how I could see a more extreme version of myself thinking (I am on the autistic spectrum - I am NOT trying to diagnose her with that, just using context of my own thinking process to show how these quotes come across to me): "you would not for a 23-year-old man" - well yes, there's general social rules, and that sounds rather like rigid thinking; "it's not right to enter the opposite gender's toilet". If I were in a similar position, I'd think long and hard before doing so myself, because it's against the unwritten rules (and while asking a passing man to check is the obvious solution, there either might not have been a passing man on a cold December afternoon, or else I have severe social anxiety and would find that equally hard to do as it would be to break the "rules" and check myself). Giving up and going home to wait would be in line with what I might possibly do, too - actually I'd personally be more likely to end up just "stuck" standing there for hours, not doing anything, as my brain would run out of capacity to think, but I could see just returning to familiarity as an option too.

I'd really love to see more contemporary reports on what the parents were quoted as saying at the time, to see if it's changed over the years or remained consistent (bearing in mind people's memories usually don't remain exactly the same, details will change unconsciously but the major points should remain similar) as there's a few possibilities regarding these specific quotes, which don't necessarily imply guilt:

- The parents are responsible for Steven's disappearance and Mrs C is just doing a very poor job at covering up.
- The parents are responsible for Steven's disappearance and Mrs C is doing a good job at sticking to the script and not embellishing her story with any extra details which could cause questions to be asked about why she only "remembered" checking after 28 years!
- The parents are responsible for Steven's disappearance and Mrs C is somewhat stressed by it, maybe losing some memory after 28 years (she is 81 after all), and clinging to a few basic facts which are safe to mention.
- Mr C is responsible for Steven's disappearance and Mrs C is too scared to admit anything but too upset to do a better job at covering up/is sticking rigidly to the script.
- The parents are actually not responsible for Steven's disappearance and Mrs C has some unusual ways of thinking, so did a poor job of checking at the time, and does an equally poor job of expressing concern for her missing son.
- The parents are actually not responsible for Steven's disappearance and Mrs C actually checked rather better than we think but is losing her memory and clinging to the few facts she remembers for sure.
- The parents are actually not responsible for Steven's disappearance and Mrs C actually checked rather better than we think but poor reporting has focussed too much on a few quotes which make her look bad and support the narrative that the parents are responsible.

No doubt the actual truth will be none of these, or some other combination! Everything I read makes them sound guilty, and gives me a bad feeling about them, and yet... it doesn't sit quite right with me because I just think a guilty party would make more effort to cover up.

I think your assessment is pretty good. As the parent of a young man on the autism spectrum in his late teens I don't find her actions that surprising. They don't ring untrue to me. At least I don't find it odd that at that age, even with his disabilities, she left him to find his way home. I'm not sure we have any reason to believe he never walked home on his own before either.

Then again maybe they never were there after all. Maybe they did something to him. But this story doesn't sound implausible on the surface to me. It does sound like something a parent would allow with an young adult working on becoming more independent. He doesn't sound like he was severely disabled and you'd never leave him on his own.

 

[trendsetter]

The story of his disappearance is a bit odd but not implausible. If it was a fabrication, as the police seem to believe, why wasn't a better story invented? His mother could have, for example, said that on the walk he had decided to go home early because he was cold, or tired or that their was a tv programme he wanted to see. His mother pressed on with the walk and was surprised but not worried when she returned home later and found he had not arrived (he could have visited shops, met friends etc). This version has the advantage that the exact time and location of his disappearance are much vaguer. Also it is very slightly more plausible.

On the other hand - maybe the events she was describing, had indeed happened but not on the day of the disappearance - the circumstances could have happened before but with a favourable outcome (he did come home); for her she would be recounting real events which would mean that she would need to minimally prevaricate and be less likely to be found out.

 

[MrsWatson]

The most recent article search only brings up the Teeside Live article, which was updated yesterday, but only to say they were onsite Monday as well.

I'm guessing they've asked media to not release anything just yet; the coverage seems very circumspect.

 

[Thelastleg]

I have a vague recollection of watching a programme about 10 years ago about missing people. After someone posted photos of the public toilets and surrounding area upthread, I am pretty sure but not positive that this case was on the programme. I think they had a renactment. It has stuck in my mind as it was so bizarre. In fact before the parents were arrested it came to mind when the new series of Missing came out and I was wondering if he ever turned up.

 

[Kitkat28]

I think the backwards and forwards trying to analyse Steven’s mother’s state of mind is rather futile if, as I strongly believe, he never actually left the house that day.

I’m the mother of a 23 year old man (albeit a neurotypical one) and it’s just not a plausible scenario to me. On the one hand you’ve got an ordinary young man perfectly capable of going off on his own - who I’m absolutely convinced would wait and tell his mother he was going out of sheer politeness, enabling her to pootle off home and put the kettle on. Or you’ve got a young man who needs extra care and support and who may have wandered off or come to harm - yet his mother doesn’t shout his name or stick her head round the door, or even look for another bloke to ask him to investigate?

When you are a parent of a child with SN, the extra vigilance carries on long after it would with your NT children. That’s why to me, this story just doesn’t add up.

 

[Skigh]

I think the backwards and forwards trying to analyse Steven’s mother’s state of mind is rather futile if, as I strongly believe, he never actually left the house that day.

I’m the mother of a 23 year old man (albeit a neurotypical one) and it’s just not a plausible scenario to me. On the one hand you’ve got an ordinary young man perfectly capable of going off on his own - who I’m absolutely convinced would wait and tell his mother he was going out of sheer politeness, enabling her to pootle off home and put the kettle on. Or you’ve got a young man who needs extra care and support and who may have wandered off or come to harm - yet his mother doesn’t shout his name or stick her head round the door, or even look for another bloke to ask him to investigate?

When you are a parent of a child with SN, the extra vigilance carries on long after it would with your NT children. That’s why to me, this story just doesn’t add up.

I totally agree.
If I had been out with a male of any age or ability and They did not come out of the loo my immediate thought would be something was wrong and they might have collapsed in the loo.
How ever reluctant I felt about entering ,my concern for the person would far outweigh any other sensibilities.
If the person had disabilities my fear of a medical emergency would be even greater.

 

[MrsWatson]

I'd have no problem standing near the men's door and yelling, Hey Steven, you all right in there? no matter his age or disabilities.

If she stood outside "for a while", what did she think was going on in there?

But I don't think they were ever on a walk there that day.

MOO

 

[Skigh]

I wonder what is happening and why there appears to seemingly be a news blackout Apart from a very brief article in the local paper yesterday, saying they were still digging,there has been no news since Friday.