UK - US Diplomat's wife leaves UK after killing Harry Dunn, age 19, Northampton, Sept 2019 *suspended sentence*

[mickey2942]

Ex-diplomat says UK should consider declaring US Ambassador Woody Johnson a 'persona non grata' unless Donald Trump agrees to help the investigation into the death of British teenager Harry Dunn

Ex-diplomat says UK should consider declaring US Ambassador 'persona non grata' | Daily Mail Online

Is there anyway she could be prosecuted in the States for death by dangerous driving in the U.K?

No. And even in the United States, if you have enough money for an attorney, few people see jail time for killing someone due to negligent driving. They always have some "legitimate" excuse. Glare, blind spot, whatever.

My friend was killed on her bike, in a bike lane, the driver got off totally free, oh, house arrest in her huge house for 180 days.
Woman who killed bicyclist apologizes at her sentencing

 

[gregjrichards]

No. And even in the United States, if you have enough money for an attorney, few people see jail time for killing someone due to negligent driving. They always have some "legitimate" excuse. Glare, blind spot, whatever.

My friend was killed on her bike, in a bike lane, the driver got off totally free, oh, house arrest in her huge house for 180 days.
Woman who killed bicyclist apologizes at her sentencing

I am very sorry about the loss of your friend and can understand your anger about the sentence the driver received.

 

[kaen]

The travesty here is that the woman does not appear to have diplomatic immunity. This is a horrible precedent to set for the US regarding culpability.

I hope that Harry Dunn's parents file a civil suit in the US and make these people pay a huge dollar amount--- given this woman's admission of guilt--- that will require them to pay over time.

 

[mickey2942]

The travesty here is that the woman does not appear to have diplomatic immunity. This is a horrible precedent to set for the US regarding culpability.

I hope that Harry Dunn's parents file a civil suit in the US and make these people pay a huge dollar amount--- given this woman's admission of guilt--- that will require them to pay over time.

So, that is interesting. When I was married, my husband worked and had everything in his name. If the family files a lawsuit against the wife, and she is unemployed, has no assets in her name, a civil lawsuit against her would not be very effective.

 

[gregjrichards]

“Two days ago, Harry Dunn’s mother Charlotte finally forced herself to strip her 19-year-old son’s bed. He last slept in it six-and-a-half weeks ago, the night before he was killed in a head-on collision with the vehicle of American diplomat’s wife Anne Sacoolas who was allegedly driving on the wrong side of the road.

‘That broke me, really broke me,’ says Charlotte. ‘It was the first time in six weeks I’ve really cried — really, really cried. There have been little breakdowns but we’ve all had to try to be stoic for Niall.’

Niall is Harry’s non-identical twin. He is devastated by his brother’s death, so much so that Thursday was the first time he left the family home since he last saw Harry less than an hour before the fatal crash.”

Harry Dunn's family recount the full horror of losing son in crash with American diplomat's wife | Daily Mail Online

 

[gitana1]

The travesty here is that the woman does not appear to have diplomatic immunity. This is a horrible precedent to set for the US regarding culpability.

I hope that Harry Dunn's parents file a civil suit in the US and make these people pay a huge dollar amount--- given this woman's admission of guilt--- that will require them to pay over time.

It might be hard due to jurisdictional issues. I'm not sure though.

 

[Laughing]

So, that is interesting. When I was married, my husband worked and had everything in his name. If the family files a lawsuit against the wife, and she is unemployed, has no assets in her name, a civil lawsuit against her would not be very effective.

Checking, Virginia is not a "community property" state. Several commercial sites agree.

But, any verdict could be helpful to Mr. Dunn's family!


What a horrible lesson for the 11 year old boy in the car....

 

[otto]

Just heard that the entire family left the country after the accident that killed Dunn. Initially it was only reported that she, the driver, left the country, that she does not have diplomatic immunity and he may not either. Now it is reported that her husband and two children have also returned to the states. This was after only being in the job for 3 weeks.

Trump's response has been that "accidents happen" so Dunn's family is travelling to Washington to speak to Trump. The Prime Minister has also asked the states to return the admitted murderer to account for her actions. The sentence would probably be very light since it was a complete accident. Refusing to stand up and account for what she did is so much worse in so many ways.

What was a conversation between the driver and the family of the 19 year old identical twin that she accidentally killed is now a conversation between world leaders. She can still do the right thing by returning to the scene of the accident for an interview with police - clear up her side of the story.

 

[mickey2942]

This does bring up an interesting side issue.

Does the spouse work for the federal government? For what agency? What is his job title? Very curious. Jonathan Sacoolas is not found on federal employees website.
Search Federal Employee Salaries

Are spouses entitled to diplomatic immunity? No matter what?

It is really based on the Visa category that the wife traveled to UK on...even when entering a "Visa Waiver" country, you still have a "Category".

 

[tresir2012]

US diplomat's wife Anne Sacoolas 'devastated' after Harry Dunn fatal road crash

Anne would like to meet with Mr. Dunn’s parents so that she can express her deepest sympathies and apologies for this tragic accident.

"We have been in contact with the family’s attorneys and look forward to hearing from them."

Earlier Mrs Sacoolas' lawyer made contact with the representative appointed by the family of Harry Dunn.

The lawyer made contact with Radd Seiger, a former lawyer and family friend, who has just landed in the US ahead of the Dunn family - who are due to fly tomorrow.

 

[otto]

US diplomat's wife Anne Sacoolas 'devastated' after Harry Dunn fatal road crash

Anne would like to meet with Mr. Dunn’s parents so that she can express her deepest sympathies and apologies for this tragic accident.

"We have been in contact with the family’s attorneys and look forward to hearing from them."

Earlier Mrs Sacoolas' lawyer made contact with the representative appointed by the family of Harry Dunn.

The lawyer made contact with Radd Seiger, a former lawyer and family friend, who has just landed in the US ahead of the Dunn family - who are due to fly tomorrow.

Dunn's parents are going to Washington to appeal to Trump to waive the immunity clause, and the woman who killed their son wants to talk to them on her terms in her country?

I wonder if she'll make a financial offer. Lawyers aren't necessary if all she wants to do is say sorry. It's not surprising that she is devastated - her husband gave up his job in England, she's avoiding the police, and she caused an international incident. That has to be hard on her.

 

[tresir2012]

I am wondering if they can sue for wrongful death. Anyone know if that is possible?

 

[tresir2012]

On the BBC news they are saying that AS no longer has immunity because she has gone back to the states. Is that correct? Personally I don't believe she ever did have it and that's why the family went back but that's JMO.

I'll see if there is a link about her not having immunity any more.

Here we go ETA

Anne Sacoolas no longer has diplomatic immunity, says Foreign Office

The family’s lawyer, Mark Stephens, said on Sky News on Sunday morning: “She wasn’t entitled to diplomatic immunity in the first place.”

Calling Sacoolas “a fugitive from British justice”, he suggested that the family could take legal action against her in a US court.

“Even if she were entitled to diplomatic immunity it only applies in the host country, so the UK. It does not apply in your home country …

That means the Dunn family can sue her in the United States for the explanation that they need to psychologically get closure on the first part of their grieving process and move on with the grieving process.”

Sacoolas, whose husband worked at the Air Force station, had only been in the country for three weeks at the time of the incident and she is said to have been “devastated” by it."

This is great news. She can be sued and possibly extradited. So would she have had the protection if she had stayed in the UK?

I have a feeling she did not have the immunity in the first place or she would not have been advised to return to the US.

MOO

 

[mickey2942]

US diplomat's wife Anne Sacoolas 'devastated' after Harry Dunn fatal road crash

Anne would like to meet with Mr. Dunn’s parents so that she can express her deepest sympathies and apologies for this tragic accident.

"We have been in contact with the family’s attorneys and look forward to hearing from them."

Earlier Mrs Sacoolas' lawyer made contact with the representative appointed by the family of Harry Dunn.

The lawyer made contact with Radd Seiger, a former lawyer and family friend, who has just landed in the US ahead of the Dunn family - who are due to fly tomorrow.[/QUOTE

If Mrs. Sacoolas is so "devastated", why doesn't she fly back to the UK and accept the consequences of her behavior?

 

[enelram]

This does bring up an interesting side issue.

Does the spouse work for the federal government? For what agency? What is his job title? Very curious. Jonathan Sacoolas is not found on federal employees website.
Search Federal Employee Salaries

Are spouses entitled to diplomatic immunity? No matter what?

It is really based on the Visa category that the wife traveled to UK on...even when entering a "Visa Waiver" country, you still have a "Category".

not sure if this is helpful or not.
My sister used to work for an expensive private
boarding school in NE. There were several
minor children/teenagers of foreign diplomats
attending the school.
The teen boys were naughty devils and ignored
basic US laws including many traffic violations.
The boys 'knew' about their family diplomatic
immunity and stretched the boundaries many
times while at the school and apparently
administrators at the school had their hands tied. It was incredulous to an outsider (me)
that the boys could get away with such things.
So maybe wives have the same 'protection'.

 

[Elainera]

Harry’s parents Charlotte Charles and Tim Dunn hailed a ‘breakthrough’ after learning US citizen Anne Sacoolas no longer has diplomatic immunity from potential prosecution over the case.

The Foreign Office made the revelation in a letter to the family yesterday, explaining it is because her husband Jonathan has left his posting at RAF Croughton in Northamptonshire.

US diplomat accused of killing Harry Dunn no longer has immunity | Daily Mail Online

 

[gregjrichards]

Harry’s parents Charlotte Charles and Tim Dunn hailed a ‘breakthrough’ after learning US citizen Anne Sacoolas no longer has diplomatic immunity from potential prosecution over the case.

The Foreign Office made the revelation in a letter to the family yesterday, explaining it is because her husband Jonathan has left his posting at RAF Croughton in Northamptonshire.

US diplomat accused of killing Harry Dunn no longer has immunity | Daily Mail Online

This is the important part of this article:

“It meant the UK and US governments agreed Mrs Sacoolas is no longer entitled to immunity and could face prosecution over the crash if she sets foot on British soil.

For the case to continue, she must either return to the UK of her own volition or be extradited.

The Crown Prosecution Service can apply to the US government to extradite her, but there are no guarantees.”

I’m not getting my hopes up over Mrs Sacoolas flying to the U.K anytime soon. I can’t see PT allowing her to be extradited.

 

[Elainera]

What an example to set for your children.

 

[mickey2942]

What an example to set for your children.

I really liked the article that stated extra signs had been posted by the base, as reminders to drive on the correct side of the road. Doh!

 

[Mandos]

Lets be clear here: it's blatantly obvious reading through the lines that she didn't decide to leave the UK of her own accord, since she was initially cooperative and had no intention to leave the country. She was TOLD to leave by the US State Department and there's a decent chance the UK Foreign Office was well aware of it as well. For a good analysis read this article:

The Foreign Office Must Be Challenged Over Sacoolas' Immunity - Craig Murray

The only thing I wonder about is why they even bothered, since she is unlikely to get more than a fine or a community sentence and a suspended license anyway.