UT - Ethan Stacy, 4, Layton, 10 May 2010 - #5

[easttexas]

You're right, of course.

Regarding her calls complaining to Joe about Ethan, I believe that is part of the ruse too. It helps to prove their state of mind and intent, mens rea as explained in my posts a page or two back, and IMO proves premeditation. Locking him up so they wouldn't be arrested for abuse, suddenly eloping, not taking him for medical treatment because they knew they'd be charged with abuse, not allowing Joe to speak to Ethan, telling Joe Ethan was being "bad", the "hysterical" calls to (at least one) friend and Joe when Ethan went "missing", the cell photos, drugging Ethan to keep him quiet, going to such extraordinary measures to ensure his body couldn't be ID'd, lying to police that he'd 'wandered off', etc., all prove they knew their actions were criminal and what the consequences would be if caught. I think it proves premeditation and intent to murder because they knew he was going to die from the abuse. I believe those calls and such were an attempt to have an 'excuse', to provide mitigating circumstances to use in their defense if they ever were arrested in connection with his disappearance. I think we're going to find out that Ethan died before Sunday and that they spent that day cleaning up the apartment to rid it of evidence of his murder. I think we'll find that her trip to Walmart and the pharmacy shows her buying cleaning supplies and items they used to transport and bury his body.

JMO.

you may so right...but this is what I think:

SS meets NS and they move into happily ever bliss..no one can take that away from them. They aer soul mates. She paints a lovely picture of a little boy that she has ignored for 8 months ans he can't wait to meet him. She excitedly after 8 months of ignoring her child goes and signs her divorce papers and brings Ethan home. Ethan is not that excited to see her. He has kind of forgotten who she was. They arrive home and NS expects nothing but total respect and just maybe Ethan senses he doesn't like NS..and cries...he wants his daddy...the only person he knew that loved him...God this is breaking my heart to type this. Ethan didn't just fit into the groove that they made. Somehow he rejected them. And they hated him for it. He just wanted to be loved. My take so far.

 

[Calliope]

I don't think she took the photos to torture Joe. It wouldn't make sense because had Ethan survived and she showed Joe the pictures it would be enough to have her share of custody removed and very likely limited vistitation to being supervised or even having her parental rights terminated. I don't think she would provide Joe with proof she was horrible mother and the love of her life was a child abusing husband. (In addition to criminal charges)

I think she expected Ethan to survive and planned to use the pictures to black mail Nathan if she later found the need or reason to. Especially based on the comments those who know her shared....

jmo

I don't know... that would make sense if she took the photos of Ethan's injuries without 's knowledge. But we know of at least one (and I'd bet there are more) where Ethan had obviously been brutalized and he was sitting on 's lap. That completely negates her claim she did this because she was afraid of NS. He knew she was taking incriminating photos. We've read comments from friends, Michelle, Joe and others about her 'mean' and vindictive side. I think we can't wrap our minds around someone watching her own child dying, sitting on the lap of the monster who was helping her kill him, and taking what in her sick mind amounted to a family album. I have no idea why she took those photos. I don't think any of us can really know why. Our theories may or may not be right, but while most of us can try to imagine her motive for recording Ethan's torture, none of us have their capacity for pure evil. And an evil like that could well have been planning to torture Joe with photos of his beloved son dying.

 

[Calliope]

you may so right...but this is what I think:

SS meets NS and they move into happily ever bliss..no one can take that away from them. They aer soul mates. She paints a lovely picture of a little boy that she has ignored for 8 months ans he can't wait to meet him. She excitedly after 8 months of ignoring her child goes and signs her divorce papers and brings Ethan home. Ethan is not that excited to see her. He has kind of forgotten who she was. They arrive home and NS expects nothing but total respect and just maybe Ethan senses he doesn't like NS..and cries...he wants his daddy...the only person he knew that loved him...God this is breaking my heart to type this. Ethan didn't just fit into the groove that they made. Somehow he rejected them. And they hated him for it. He just wanted to be loved. My take so far.

I think her 'excitement' at having Ethan was no more than knowing she'd gotten to Joe, that she'd "won" and hurt Joe with the one thing she knew would hurt him the most... and she never planned to return Ethan to Joe. IMO, they were planning on moving on very soon and disappearing with or without Ethan. I think you're right tho'. I am certain Ethan cried for his Daddy. Whether started right away brutalizing little Ethan physically, I would bet my life he was mentally torturing that baby from day one---and SS was right there with him. Their little love nest had no room for Ethan. They both spoke of putting their pasts behind them, and Ethan was part of that past.

 

[Calliope]

I'm willing to give up the DP IF and only if they both plead guilty and get LWOP. Reason being with both of them in the GP they'll have a good 40-50 or so years of wishing they were dead.

I'd make placing them immediately into the GP as part of the deal. And I wouldn't give them 6 months.

 

[Calliope]

The only U.S. cases I know of where pictures and videos of brutalizing a child until death were taken were non-parents, and there was a sexual element to the cime. An example would be little Dylan Groene.

I've never heard of a case in the U.S. where a parent and spouse brutalized a child 1) until they died, 2) took pictures and videos of it, and 3) there was no sexual element.

I've searched, and I can't find any. Does anyone else know of any cases like this?

TIA

I hate to even go here... but we don't know yet there was no sexual element. IMO, if there was it was for the purposes of further torturing little Ethan not for any sexual gratification on their part. Which leads me to another question I don't even want to consider regarding their "wedding" night.

 

[easttexas]

I don't know... that would make sense if she took the photos of Ethan's injuries without 's knowledge. But we know of at least one (and I'd bet there are more) where Ethan had obviously been brutalized and he was sitting on 's lap. That completely negates her claim she did this because she was afraid of NS. He knew she was taking incriminating photos. We've read comments from friends, Michelle, Joe and others about her 'mean' and vindictive side. I think we can't wrap our minds around someone watching her own child dying, sitting on the lap of the monster who was helping her kill him, and taking what in her sick mind amounted to a family album. I have no idea why she took those photos. I don't think any of us can really know why. Our theories may or may not be right, but while most of us can try to imagine her motive for recording Ethan's torture, none of us have their capacity for pure evil. And an evil like that could well have been planning to torture Joe with photos of his beloved son dying.

You said this better than I ever could. And apparently I have a hard time trying to get my point across. During my divorce that was 4 years long there was extreme viciousness. Lots of hurt feelings.......

and remember that she picked up Ethan just days before....which was a victory for her. Now she had control. She had a sense of control over Joe. Maybe she thougt that Ethan would be so happy with her and Nathan.....wouldn't that be the ultimate for her? But, he didn't...he wanted to go home. to daddy. and SS got mad. But detached as she might have become she took those pics. those pics weren't taken out of love.

 

[Calliope]

Do we have the last date either of them worked, and what type of work it was?

The reason I'm asking this question and my last question is that pictures and videos (particularly videos) of a child being beaten and/or tortured in various ways are worth a significant sum of money to a certain element of pervert.

Taking pictures and videos like this is extremely rare - extremely rare. It's evidence, and people do not want evidence of crimes like this. There had to be a very important reason to take those pictures and videos, because they are so incriminating.

I can think of only two reasons so far. One would be money, and there have been statements by people who knew Stephanie that she money hungry.

The other reason, I don't even want to say, but it would be for sexual gratification. Per the wedding site, they were obsessed with each other, and I can see how one could interpret that obsession has having a strong sexual element to it. I really don't want to go there. I'm not ready to explore it.

I would like to explore the money angle, because it that might be the case, we might be able to develop some leads to send to LE and the prosecutor. They may be able to find evidence of an attempt to sell the pictures and videos, a sales transaction, a buyer, etc. If something like that was the reason for the pictures and videos, then whomever may have expressed an interest needs to be found so they can be stopped.

I guess I should have read a few posts further before I responded above. You may be on to something there.

 

[Calliope]

I agree it means something...not that we will ever understand it. We can't crawl into her skin and see because we aren't like her...I do not know ONE person on the face of this earth that would take that picture and not go running to someone for help...not SS..she took more photos. WHY? I still think somehow she wanted JS to see them...torture...Which still doesn't reason with me....if she sent the pics he would have her picked up immediatley on child abuse charges...

Not if they had "disappeared". I firmly believe that apartment was a transient stop for them. In fact, it seems I read something to that effect somewhere along the line... that they weren't planning on staying there for long. Also, someone posted on another thread that they'd received a note from the apartment management that in stated NS and SS weren't really tenants, that they were staying with another person. I think we know that to was not the case, that they were the only ones living there, but I wonder if they moved in to an apartment rented by someone else and were paying him to live there on what was left of his lease.

 

[Calliope]

We know they are doing forensics on their computers and bank and phone records. And I have no doubt they're investigating these two from the time they first 'hooked up' online. I'm betting we'll find out they were making plans to disappear, and Ethan's murder just speeded up the process a bit.

 

[SuziQ]

Why Stephanie tooks the pics is still a puzzle to me. And then post one of them on her facebook? How long were they on facebook? Didn't anyone her friends see them? Was she so desperate to show the world her child with her man that she overlooked the fact that Ethans face was bashed up? I don't get it?

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10814747

The FBI has now entered the investigation into the death of Ethan Stacy, partly because of its expertise in examining electronic evidence, which could provide valuable clues in the timeline of violence that led to the boy's death.


The Layton Police Department says it is aware of a Facebook photo that has created a lot of buzz in the case. The lieutenant KSL News spoke to would not go into details, but he said it's definitely part of the investigation. It's a picture of 4-year-old Ethan playing video games like any other child. Except, in this photo his face is swollen and bruised, and he's sitting with the man accused of killing him: his stepfather, Nathan Sloop.

More at link.

 

[SuziQ]

[/i][/b]

BBM

The diary of pictures Stephanie took of Ethan's abuse, torture, burning, and crushing, should be enough to send her right to the chair. moo

I can't fathom what defense Stephanie will use - IMO she would be smart to plea down to a 'guilty' charge. Can't imagine she would refuse the plea if offered. moo

Seems to me Nate would be happy to plea down to a guilty charge in exchange for life with no parole. The pictures of Ethan, as mentioned above, would sicken the jury and send him right to the chair. moo

Hard to imagine Nate wanting to drag his entire family history before the world. DID usually develops as a defense to severe childhood abuse - the guilty but mentally ill defense (GBMI) would require a tell all on the part of his defense team. He needs to worry if the jury understands his defense. Needs to be concerned if his defense team has garnered enough sympathy from the jurors for a GBMI verdict. A huge risk. moo

Disclaimer: I am not a death penalty advocate. Life with NO parole would be acceptable - and I think far more painful than a quick death. moo

This is something I've pondered alot about Nathan. That's why I put a big question mark on a few things I came across last week.

 

[Calliope]

Why Stephanie tooks the pics is still a puzzle to me. And then post one of them on her facebook? How long were they on facebook? Didn't anyone her friends see them? Was she so desperate to show the world her child with her man that she overlooked the fact that Ethans face was bashed up? I don't get it?

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10814747

The FBI has now entered the investigation into the death of Ethan Stacy, partly because of its expertise in examining electronic evidence, which could provide valuable clues in the timeline of violence that led to the boy's death.


The Layton Police Department says it is aware of a Facebook photo that has created a lot of buzz in the case. The lieutenant KSL News spoke to would not go into details, but he said it's definitely part of the investigation. It's a picture of 4-year-old Ethan playing video games like any other child. Except, in this photo his face is swollen and bruised, and he's sitting with the man accused of killing him: his stepfather, Nathan Sloop.

More at link.

Oh my God. I had no idea that's where that photo came from. I thought it had somehow been released by the police, although I could never understand why they'd do so. But I'd like to point out a glaring error on the part of this report. Ethan was NOT playing video games. He was sitting on that monster's lap, flat and brutalized, while played his game.

I am so glad to hear the FBI is helping here. I have nothing but faith in Mr. Rawlings and his staff, but they only have so many resources to bring to bear.

 

[Calliope]

"We dropped off a balloon and he, Brecken, brought one of his toys for him," said Jennifer Schiller.

She and her 4-year-old son Brecken didn't know Ethan. They don't even live in the apartment complex where police say he spent his last days.

But they've paid their respects there more than once, usually at Brecken's request.

"He's just talked about him and said ‘We could have been friends. He's with Jesus now,'" Schiller said.

Crying again...

 

[Calliope]

The Davis County attorney's victim advocate has set up a fund to help Ethan's dad Joe Stacy pay for funeral and other expenses.

You can donate in Ethan Stacy's name at any Wells Fargo or Wachovia bank.

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-ethan-stacy-funeral-fund,0,1964016.story

 

[RubyRed]

Why Stephanie tooks the pics is still a puzzle to me. And then post one of them on her facebook? How long were they on facebook? Didn't anyone her friends see them? Was she so desperate to show the world her child with her man that she overlooked the fact that Ethans face was bashed up? I don't get it?

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10814747

The FBI has now entered the investigation into the death of Ethan Stacy, partly because of its expertise in examining electronic evidence, which could provide valuable clues in the timeline of violence that led to the boy's death.


The Layton Police Department says it is aware of a Facebook photo that has created a lot of buzz in the case. The lieutenant KSL News spoke to would not go into details, but he said it's definitely part of the investigation. It's a picture of 4-year-old Ethan playing video games like any other child. Except, in this photo his face is swollen and bruised, and he's sitting with the man accused of killing him: his stepfather, Nathan Sloop.

More at link.

bbm

I am speechless.

 

['Ailina]

(snipped)

Why Stephanie tooks the pics is still a puzzle to me. And then post one of them on her facebook? How long were they on facebook? Didn't anyone her friends see them? Was she so desperate to show the world her child with her man that she overlooked the fact that Ethans face was bashed up? I don't get it?

I had no idea SS made this photo public herself. I, too, thought LE was the only other entity that had obtained them.

Welp, SS is a narcissist all right.

I'm guessing she didn't think Ethan's injury would be noticeable enough to draw anyone's attention from HER focus and emphasis: "Awww...look at my little son...and look at my soul mate, together, like the perfect little family. See? NS is a great daddy, too. I'm such a lucky girl." (gag)

Yes, I think she was so self-absorbed and self-serving, it didn't even cross her mind anyone would see the injury. They would be too distracted by the "cuteness" of the photo.

MOO

 

[Calliope]

http://www.ksl.com/emedia/slc/2043/204317/20431755.jpg

A screenshot of the facebook page.

My two favorite boys playing video games together

:furious: :furious: :furious:

This photo is much clearer than those posted by the news earlier on this and the last thread.

IMO, his jaw is broken and his lips are swollen to the point he can't close his mouth. There is an obvious bruising and swelling of his left ear and temporal area and left side of his forehead. You can see where the swelling on his forehead and left eye has elevated his left brow. In addition to the bruising on and surrounding his left eye, it's apparent his right eye and cheek were battered too. Again I note the bruising of his throat (that *advertiser censored* grabbed that baby on his throat as he beat him and what MAY be bruising on the back of the left side his neck (that may be a shadow, hard to tell although it extends a bit too far anteriorly for it to be a shadow; IMO it's more bruising). Something I notice here that didn't show up in the prior post of this picture is what appears to be a ligature mark around the base of Ethan's throat. It's very thin and my guess he he was grabbed and pulled or lifted up by the back of his shirt and held (possible head down) causing the collar of his shirt cut into his neck.

 

[eyes4crime]

Why Stephanie tooks the pics is still a puzzle to me. And then post one of them on her facebook? How long were they on facebook? Didn't anyone her friends see them? Was she so desperate to show the world her child with her man that she overlooked the fact that Ethans face was bashed up? I don't get it?

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10814747

The FBI has now entered the investigation into the death of Ethan Stacy, partly because of its expertise in examining electronic evidence, which could provide valuable clues in the timeline of violence that led to the boy's death.


The Layton Police Department says it is aware of a Facebook photo that has created a lot of buzz in the case. The lieutenant KSL News spoke to would not go into details, but he said it's definitely part of the investigation. It's a picture of 4-year-old Ethan playing video games like any other child. Except, in this photo his face is swollen and bruised, and he's sitting with the man accused of killing him: his stepfather, Nathan Sloop.

More at link.

BBM

Thanks for that info SuziQ - I will definitely add that to the time-line after I pick myself up off the floor. Did she get the pic on Facebook from her cell phone for everyone to see or was it meant for someone specific. Jeeze, I hope she's not legally crazy! moo

 

[DairyGirl]

Oh my God. I had no idea that's where that photo came from. I thought it had somehow been released by the police, although I could never understand why they'd do so. But I'd like to point out a glaring error on the part of this report. Ethan was NOT playing video games. He was sitting on that monster's lap, flat and brutalized, while played his game.

I am so glad to hear the FBI is helping here. I have nothing but faith in Mr. Rawlings and his staff, but they only have so many resources to bring to bear.

From the above link, did you see what she had written with the photo she posted? "My two favorite boys playing video games together". :sick:

 

[DairyGirl]

BBM

Thanks for that info SuziQ - I will definitely add that to the time-line after I pick myself up off the floor. Did she get the pic on Facebook from her cell phone for everyone to see or was it meant for someone specific. Jeeze, I hope she's not legally crazy! moo

I really think that she thought it would show what a happy family they were. Maybe she thought no one would notice his face was swollen.