UT - Ethan Stacy, 4, Layton, 10 May 2010 - #5

[Cubby]

I hadn't even noticed Nathans pants were unzipped until you pointed it out smart blonde.

I'm speechless.

 

[Muffet]

His top left incisor looks discolored. He seemed like a pretty active, adventurous little boy. I imagine he fell and smacked his tooth and that's why it's darker. I'm not sure what that does to the permanent tooth coming up behind it, but I don't think they'd mess with a primary tooth if it was otherwise healthy.

Yep. It's very common for baby teeth. Kids bump them even just a little, and it moves enough to sever the tiny blood vessel that feeds through the tip of the root into the pulp.

Without the blood supply, the tooth darkens. It doesn't affect the permanent tooth.

 

[yeknomaras]

Regarding that game pic, if it makes anyone feel better, I think he's making the "O" with his mouth and fist with his hand as a gesture about the game. I see my kids make the same moves all the time.

(Not to say his jaw doesn't look swollen. I just don't think the O or fist are from a broken arm or busted jaw.)

Muffet, I thought about this... but his mouth just looks unnatural. If you look at the "before" pics his face and lips are very petite... I just don't think his face is capable of naturally making that shape.

 

[krazyfingerzz]

And what is the substance that looks to be dripping down Ethan's face, from his eye down his cheek?

And why are Nathan's pants unzipped.

I noticed the pants unzipped as well as the line of something going down Ethan's face. I finally pulled up the pic in Photoshop and was working with filters. Filters aside, there appears to be a lot of discoloration on Ethan's face. It also becomes obvious that his right side is also swollen, there's a red mark extending from his left ear and a bit down (his left ear appears swollen), in addition to the gaping mouth and very different nose. I really can't tell if that's Ethan's right hand, but if it is, it's fisted. If I am not mistaken, brain injuries cause one to clench their fists. I know we have nurses here who can verify that. Either way, this picture is horrible, and while I thought Ethan might be looking at a TV while Nater Bean was looking at a controller, it really appears that he's just staring off into space.

ETA: I meant to specify that Ethan's left ear is obviously swollen.

 

[Muffet]

Muffet, I thought about this... but his mouth just looks unnatural. If you look at the "before" pics his face and lips are very petite... I just don't think his face is capable of naturally making that shape.

I agree that his jaw looks puffy.

I was responding to the comments about his lip "O" and his arm/fist.

I'll add that my son had chipmonk cheeks too, so that pic - even the "O" with the jutted out lower lip - wouldn't make me think twice, if I didn't know what I know. (I know it sounds weird, but he was totally gorgeous and has grown into a very handsome boy! lol)

To me, he just looks like he's doing that fisty "oh yeah" gaming motion I've seen a million times.

I agree with Bean or Cubby, who said we need to get a pic of him at that angle to see how out of shape his jawline is.

 

[Calliope]

Thank you, Calliope.

This is beyond comprehension. I just don't understand.

And what is the substance that looks to be dripping down Ethan's face, from his eye down his cheek?

And why are Nathan's pants unzipped.

There is no way FBI and LE would have released this pic themselves. If someone hadn't captured it from Facebook......

How much worse can the other pics even be? I feel almost like I'm in shock.
How could they do this to him? How could they?

I don't know. I can imagine his eye would have been watering. I can imagine other things I don't want to mention. As far as 's pants, that's something my mind can't begin to process right now. BeanE touched on it, but I can't go there. Not now. This is bad enough, and we're told there is far worse to come.

 

[Calliope]

Muffet, I thought about this... but his mouth just looks unnatural. If you look at the "before" pics his face and lips are very petite... I just don't think his face is capable of naturally making that shape.

I agree. Like I said, I've seen that before in people with facial injury, surgery, and tumors. I don't think he was playing the video either. NS is holding Ethan's left hand firmly onto the controller with his thumb. That poor child could barely sit upright, IMO. He's flat and just staring ahead. With that level of injury, I'm not even sure he's processing what he's seeing, if with the swollen eyes he can see anything at all.

 

[smart blonde]

Muffet, I thought about this... but his mouth just looks unnatural. If you look at the "before" pics his face and lips are very petite... I just don't think his face is capable of naturally making that shape.

I agree.

There also appears (to me) to be massive bruising, and swelling, and some bodily disfigurement (shoulder, arm position)- along with whatever I think they are probably hiding by having him wrapped in a blanket.

As Calliope pointed out, it appears Nathan is actually holding Ethans hand on the game controller with Nathan's thumb. And, Ethan's other hand does not look to me like it is in a 'Victory' type fist- no, to me it looks like Nathan has his other arm around Ethan's arm, and pressed against his body, as a way to prop the little arm up, and even the little hand (if it even is Ethan's hand) looks too big somehow. Distorted. Mutilated somehow. Like a cauliflower.

But worst of all, for me, is that if you enlarge the pic, and look closely at Ethan's eyes, they are not angled down at the game controller. They look like they are staring at nothing.

Ethan's face may be angled down, but his eyes aren't.

Those injuries would be agonizing. Ethan should have been in ICU/ Intensive Care in the hospital.

 

[angiejean]

It could be he's staring off because of the Benydril they gave him. Not sure if I remember if the amount they gave him was made public....but after all the horrible and irrational things they did to him, it would not surprise me if they gave him more than the recommended dose. Also the pain. Yes, I can see his hand now, something is really wrong with his arm!! Grrrr....

 

[essies]

I honestly think Ethan's in shock at this moment!:furious:
It looks like NS has had a shower from the look of his hair-unless he worked up a sweat while beating Ethan!:furious:
Perhaps at this point NS and SS were trying to set up the excuse of an accident-knowing Ethan would tell Daddy what happened. They would say something like "He's lying-look they are buddies playing PS3 together!!! What are you going to believe Joe-Ethan or my pictures?":banghead:

 

[Calliope]

I noticed the pants unzipped as well as the line of something going down Ethan's face. I finally pulled up the pic in Photoshop and was working with filters. Filters aside, there appears to be a lot of discoloration on Ethan's face. It also becomes obvious that his right side is also swollen, there's a red mark extending from his left ear and a bit down (his left ear appears swollen), in addition to the gaping mouth and very different nose. I really can't tell if that's Ethan's right hand, but if it is, it's fisted. If I am not mistaken, brain injuries cause one to clench their fists. I know we have nurses here who can verify that. Either way, this picture is horrible, and while I thought Ethan might be looking at a TV while Nater Bean was looking at a controller, it really appears that he's just staring off into space.

ETA: I meant to specify that Ethan's left ear is obviously swollen.

There's what is called "posturing" which indicates severe brain injury and the location of the injury. I don't think that's what he's doing, although people who have had strokes will often hold their affected side in that manner. It's possible with the injuries to the left side of his head, a bleed affected the right side of his body.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003189.htm

 

[smart blonde]

Seeing the beautiful pictures of Ethan with his daddy, Joe... it is so obvious Joe just adores his little boy. You can see the pride in Joe's eyes. He's glowing with happiness and love for Ethan.

I think Nathanael burned with jealousy toward Joe.

 

[Muffet]

I might easily be totally missing all of what y'all are seeing (again, I do see evidence of a blow to the jaw)...

But just for the record, and food for thought, I don't see him "staring off," but staring intently at the TV, which is where the game that controller is running would be showing.

His little fist-pumping action is what gives me hope. I don't see decerebrating posture there.

JMO/:twocents:/:couch:

 

[nursebeeme]

yes, you can have posturing (flexion of the hands, extension of lower extremeties) with brain injury. It is called decorticate posturing and can progress to deceribrate posturing. It can affect one or both sides of the body and is a result of damage to the corticospinal tract which connects the brain to the spinal cord.

(((personally I do not see decorticate posturing in that picture...but not to say it is not possible... I just cannot see enough of the arm.... and usually with the flexion the arm will also be drawn up on the chest)))

decerebrate posturing involves the arms and legs being extended (not flexed) and the head hyperextends. This posturing can occur with brain bleeds, stroke, other insults to the brain

(((I do not see decerebrate posturing at all)))

Hope that helps and I was able to put it in terms that are easy to understand.

 

[Adrienne37]

While I can't see everything in the photo that you guys are seeing, what I am seeing with my own eyes is enough for me to know that this precious little boy suffered beyond what anyone of us could imagine especially if this was taken around the time that the beatings started. It's sickening and all I can say again is my favorite saying which is hell isn't hot enough for either of them. I know how this has made us all feel seeing this photo but can you imagine for one minute what his father must be feeling? It's like I say everytime we come across one of these cases it seems each one gets worse than the last.

 

[eyes4crime]

Thanks for explaining Eyes, very well said. I do have a question about meth, I haven't done the research yet, took a small break...Ethan just stole my heart and was having a really hard time with this...

When on meth, what is your rational state? Are you concious of your actions and decions? Did SS have the ablility to know right from wrong or that her son was in serious pain and danger? Silly question, but really would like to know. tia

Also, wanted to point out, Ethans tooth looks discolored, my little guy had that, sometimes it is an infection and clears up. Not sure about his tooth, but it looks the same.

Thanks for posting those sweet pictures Calliope.

Hi angie - I'll look for an article on meth that is understandable by most. Sometimes that's hard to do with drugs/street drugs.

Speculation that meth was involved is just that - speculation.

The basics are that Meth can cause schizophrenic (psychotic) like symptoms - paranoia and a delusional state. Extremely addictive and tolerance develops fast causing drug seeking behavior that takes priority over everything else. Obtaining and consuming meth becomes the number 1 priority. Stimulates the central nervous system and can alter the brain functioning permanently. All the ingredients necessary to make meth can be bought at the pharmacy, hardware store, and convenience store. All over the net there are recipes for meth. using drano, brake fluid and other poisonous ingredients.
Regarding knowing right from wrong: Utah does not have the insanity defense, so don't worry, that can't be used. IF meth was involved, the two made a choice to use it - and that's what matters. moo

Regarding the tooth: I'm not a dentist, but maybe the tooth is dead, meaning there is no nerve. Maybe from a fall. The antibiotic Tetracycline given to children under a certain age can cause mottled teeth and discoloration. Doesn't seem likely because it's only one tooth. Mentioned earlier by a member, was the fact that dentists usually don't work on baby teeth, they wait for the 2nd set to come in. moo

 

[sunflowerchick]

I haven't finished getting completely caught up yet with this thread this morning, but I had a thought that I wanted to post before I forget.

What if... the reason SS was taking the pictures was to try to frame JS for this. In my mind, this could be an explanation for a lot of things: Her statement in one of the news articles (I don't remember which one and I don't remember who said it) about not returning him to JS, the statements on their wedding page referring to exes, the fact that the abuse happened so quickly, the constant taking of pictures for documentation, the reason why the FBI is brought in for digital media, etc.

I think it is possible as one scenario that she and NS began this abuse immediately with the "plan" to claim that Ethan showed up at their house this way. If this is the case, it is possible that she tried to change dates on photos, etc. which would again explain the reason for the FBI getting involved. They may even have discussed this "plan" online, through email or texts. Also if this is the case, she wouldn't have planned on this going as far as it did. She might have just figured they would make it look bad enough that she could get custody or get Joe in trouble. At some point though, she realized that it went too far or they couldn't pull it off and that is when they had to start covering their tracks. JMOO

 

[eyes4crime]

yes, you can have posturing (flexion of the hands, extension of lower extremeties) with brain injury. It is called decorticate posturing and can progress to deceribrate posturing. It can affect one or both sides of the body and is a result of damage to the corticospinal tract which connects the brain to the spinal cord.

(((personally I do not see decorticate posturing in that picture...but not to say it is not possible... I just cannot see enough of the arm.... and usually with the flexion the arm will also be drawn up on the chest)))

decerebrate posturing involves the arms and legs being extended (not flexed) and the head hyperextends. This posturing can occur with brain bleeds, stroke, other insults to the brain

(((I do not see decerebrate posturing at all)))

Hope that helps and I was able to put it in terms that are easy to understand.

Thanks nurse, that's the hardest part - putting a medical condition into easy to understand terms. That's a real gift.

By not seeing decerebrate posturing - does that rule out a brain injury? ?TIA

 

[Calliope]

I haven't finished getting completely caught up yet with this thread this morning, but I had a thought that I wanted to post before I forget.

What if... the reason SS was taking the pictures was to try to frame JS for this. In my mind, this could be an explanation for a lot of things: Her statement in one of the news articles (I don't remember which one and I don't remember who said it) about not returning him to JS, the statements on their wedding page referring to exes, the fact that the abuse happened so quickly, the constant taking of pictures for documentation, the reason why the FBI is brought in for digital media, etc.

I think it is possible as one scenario that she and NS began this abuse immediately with the "plan" to claim that Ethan showed up at their house this way. If this is the case, it is possible that she tried to change dates on photos, etc. which would again explain the reason for the FBI getting involved. They may even have discussed this "plan" online, through email or texts. Also if this is the case, she wouldn't have planned on this going as far as it did. She might have just figured they would make it look bad enough that she could get custody or get Joe in trouble. At some point though, she realized that it went too far or they couldn't pull it off and that is when they had to start covering their tracks. JMOO

But she brought him back on a commercial flight. There would have been plenty of witnesses.

I don't know. At this point I just can't wrap my head around this. It's just too much.

 

[nursebeeme]

Thanks nurse, that's the hardest part - putting a medical condition into easy to understand terms. That's a real gift.

By not seeing decerebrate posturing - does that rule out a brain injury? ?TIA

no... it doesn't. Not all people with a brain injury/bleed will exhibit posturing.