UT - Ethan Stacy, 4, Layton, 10 May 2010 - #6

[AmandaReckonwith]

(Just a little reminder because) I added a few vids and pics tonight.

Case archive album:
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Ethan%20Stacy/

 

[Jules_SA]

Calliope... I promise you if you blow up the picture it is taken by the same door. You can see the same paint chips..
all of the trim is the same... the door.. the door jam... it's just a different angle.

I have no clue where this photo came from ... I would guess that SS posted
it on her facebook and somone took it off.

If I recall correctly, I believe I read somewhere that a neighbor had taken this pic and posted it to a FB site in Memory of Ethan?

 

[monkeymama]

I broke down a bit today. I heard my two year old in his room saying "mama, hep" (mama help) so I go in there to find that he has crawled up on the top bunk. I held out my hands and he jumped right to me. I thought, "wow, this little guy really trusts me". I never had a thought like that before Ethan. It just made me so sad that he didn't have anyone to trust in his last hours.

 

[Calliope]

Considering that she hadn't seen Ethan since October I just don't see his Daddy putting him in a tee shirt that says that.

I don't either. No telling when that pic was taken, but the bottom of the door in the photo has a metal plate and the one at the apartment in Utah doesn't. I doubt I can do it today, but I'll try to track down who originally posted that photo and where they got it from.

 

[Calliope]

If I recall correctly, I believe I read somewhere that a neighbor had taken this pic and posted it to a FB site in Memory of Ethan?

I think you're right. The photo wasn't taken in front of NS/SS's door, but probably at the complex somewhere. I found the person who posted it originally, and she is from Utah but has her facebook set to private and there is no way to message her. I noted some people have asked her to clarify where the photo was taken and/or how she obtained it, and she's not answered. So I take back what I posted earlier. This was most likely taken in Layton within days of his murder

 

[Vegas Bride]

http://www.abc4.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=97932@ktvx.web.entriq.net&navCatId=5

Forgive me if this has already been posted.
abc4 interviewed Joe and has a 3 part video interview with him, this link takes you to the third one but on the left hand side you can also click on # 1 & 2.

This case continues to haunt me.
Here where I live some plans are made to have a balloon release next Weds and I'm working at having a toy donation done for the local Womans Shelter, the women who usually go to the shelter also have children and I've found out that they are in need for items there for the children. This will be a way to honor Ethan by remembering there are other children who also need us.
IMO it does not matter which state we all live in, every community has a need and we can all do something to make a difference for the children there.

VB

 

[gngr~snap]

eyes4crime. Thank you for updating the time line. while it is still so hard to read we need to keep facts straight/sorted and the timeline is a great help.

This just occured to me. I wonder if Nathans attempt at putting Ethan in the tub was to 'revive' him and he was possibly alive but not conscience then.... or they used the hot water to try and warm him up after his passing?
As God awful as that is to consider, I wonder why NS would even attempt to give Ethan a bath. Just seems odd. Not a job I would think of a male to do. I also can't see NS not leaving the cleaning up if Ethan soiled the bed.

thoughts?

BBM

MOO Ethan was not concious (or his hands were tied up) because there is no mention of his hands being burned. A child that was alert would put his hands in the tub to try and raise up out of the water. An alert child would also jump out if they had turned the hot h2o up on their own. AND the burns would not have had a chance to be so extensive. Kids who accidentally get burned usually only have thier toes/feet burned. Ethan was placed into scalding water. IF it was burns from the tub... I have my doubtsabout that but it would be too gory to elaborate. I also feel like maybe he was drowned perhaps and SS gave the excuse of forcing fliuds to account for the fact that she KNEW fluid would be found in his lungs (or evicence of a drowning) at autopsy... IMO MOST of the stories she gave about the "abuse" were a coverup. I feel like Ethan was not alive for a couple of days before they were able to get the stories straight and try and dispose of him. SS was trying to hide that fact from LE...
just my opinion tho...

 

[Jules_SA]

I think you're right. The photo wasn't taken in front of NS/SS's door, but probably at the complex somewhere. I found the person who posted it originally, and she is from Utah but has her facebook set to private and there is no way to message her. I noted some people have asked her to clarify where the photo was taken and/or how she obtained it, and she's not answered. So I take back what I posted earlier. This was most likely taken in Layton within days of his murder

IMO, the neighbor may have taken that pic as part of her own evidence. Perhaps she suspected something was up. Or he just looked cute (what a sweetie!!!). Either way, it's not "usual" for a stranger to take a pic of someone else's child. If she's not responding to questions, I'd bet that the authorities have got hold of her and have asked her to bear witness to the pic, etc etc etc. She's possibly not allowed to respond at this point?
Hate that t-shirt.

This case is so very hard to process, on an emotional level. But the fact that Ethan endured so much hurt and torment, makes me more determined to stick with this and also make sure that justice is served. He's a beautiful, special and precious little angel. And I know, for one, my own dear Mom must have been one of those waiting in Heaven to welcome him with open arms. I can honestly say that Ethan's sad case has made me give even more hugs to my four-year-old daughter; it's made me listen to her closer; and be so very thankful for her precious life.

Ethan deserved nothing less than that either.

 

[gngr~snap]

Here is a little info on intentional vs. accidental burns:

Scalding Burns

One common type of burn inflicted on a child is caused by immersing the victim in hot water. A telltale sign of this type of crime is a "waterline," a distinct border showing where the injury ends.

The injury will have very little tapering near the edges, indicating the child was held in place. Any child who is subjected to hot water will thrash about in an effort to escape the pain.

Not only would a child thrash, but also he would be likely to do his best to protect himself. This reflexive protection mechanism would lead to "sparing."

If the legs were forced into hot water, the child would have folded his legs, protecting the area behind his knees. "These sparing actions prevent burning within the body creases, causing a striped configuration of burned and unburned zones, or a zebra pattern," writes Charles Swanson in the book "Criminal Investigation."

Common Sense

In general, some good common sense questions will assist you in determining whether a burn injury is intentional or accidental.

If the item was heated, how long did it take to heat and what were the caretaker and child doing during this time?

Det. Joseph Petrocelli is a 20-year veteran of New Jersey law enforcement. You can comment on this article, suggest other topics, or reach the author by e-mailing the editor at editor@PoliceMag.com.

Immersion Burn Patterns

Deliberate immersion burns result in injury patterns that you should learn to identify.

Doughnut pattern on the buttocks. When a child accidentally falls into hot water, the immediate reaction is to thrash about. In a deliberate immersion, the child is often held down with his buttocks in contact with the bottom of the container, sparing that portion of the buttocks from injury.

Waterlines. If a child is held in place, there will be a sharp and distinct line of injury. A child who accidentally falls into hot water will splash about, causing irregular injury patterns.

http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Patrol/Articles/2009/08/Child-Burn-Investigations.aspx

 

[eyes4crime]

Taken from the time-line - seems to be some pattern but for the life of me I can't figure out how this would happen. If Ethan was burnt I highly doubt it was while he was taking a bath. OOOuch - I can't stand to think of the pain a 4yo would have from any burn. It's beyond what I can think of. moo

May 7th - Friday
..Stephanie, while shopping at Walmart, receives a cell phone call from Nate informing her Ethan is badly burned on hands, feet, and legs up to buttox area from running water in bath (claims Ethan turned on hot water).
..Stephanie returns to find human feces in child's mouth.
..In attempt to remove feces, Stephanie brushes Ethan's teeth until his gums bleed.

 

[suzyq211]

Taken from the time-line - seems to be some pattern but for the life of me I can't figure out how this would happen. If Ethan was burnt I highly doubt it was while he was taking a bath. OOOuch - I can't stand to think of the pain a 4yo would have from any burn. It's beyond what I can think of. moo

May 7th - Friday
..Stephanie, while shopping at Walmart, receives a cell phone call from Nate informing her Ethan is badly burned on hands, feet, and legs up to buttox area from running water in bath (claims Ethan turned on hot water).
..Stephanie returns to find human feces in child's mouth.
..In attempt to remove feces, Stephanie brushes Ethan's teeth until his gums bleed.

No, that just doesnt cut the mustard!

 

[gngr~snap]

Taken from the time-line - seems to be some pattern but for the life of me I can't figure out how this would happen. If Ethan was burnt I highly doubt it was while he was taking a bath. OOOuch - I can't stand to think of the pain a 4yo would have from any burn. It's beyond what I can think of. moo

May 7th - Friday
..Stephanie, while shopping at Walmart, receives a cell phone call from Nate informing her Ethan is badly burned on hands, feet, and legs up to buttox area from running water in bath (claims Ethan turned on hot water).
..Stephanie returns to find human feces in child's mouth.
..In attempt to remove feces, Stephanie brushes Ethan's teeth until his gums bleed.

Common sense tells me Ethan did not just turn on the hot water and then continue to sit in it. If he was burned by hot water he was forcibly placed in it by NS and held there while he struggled. I can't believe if that was the case no one heard his screams! (this was allegedly done while SS was at the store on the 7th?) Do we know the approx time? I think it was evening... somebody had to of heard him! MOO

 

[RubyRed]

I wouldn't be surprised if they had his mouth covered so he couldn't scream.

 

[gngr~snap]

No, that just doesnt cut the mustard!

MOO NS was trying to rewarm Ethan's lifeless body... while SS was at WalMart.
Sorry I know that sounds really bad!

 

[Vegas Bride]

Taken from the time-line - seems to be some pattern but for the life of me I can't figure out how this would happen. If Ethan was burnt I highly doubt it was while he was taking a bath. OOOuch - I can't stand to think of the pain a 4yo would have from any burn. It's beyond what I can think of. moo

May 7th - Friday
..Stephanie, while shopping at Walmart, receives a cell phone call from Nate informing her Ethan is badly burned on hands, feet, and legs up to buttox area from running water in bath (claims Ethan turned on hot water).
..Stephanie returns to find human feces in child's mouth.
..In attempt to remove feces, Stephanie brushes Ethan's teeth until his gums bleed.

I'm highly suspicous of anything S has said.
IMO she has come up with this story as a way to distance herself.
She was at Walmart, so she could not be held accountable. (she's thinking this will save her)
We do not know if she was in the apartment or somewhere else when abuse happened but my money is on her being there.

In reading what she told the police, she sure has given a lot of details, reminds me of someone who's telling a lie and they add in a lot of detail that's not asked for.

VB

 

[gngr~snap]

I wouldn't be surprised if they had his mouth covered so he couldn't scream.

IMO one person could not do both without help.
IF they were burning him in scalding water... how did one of them not get burned too? if they were that close to a struggling toddler holding him down and keeping his mouth covered? naked kids are also slippery... maybe they left him clothed? the clothing would have continued to burn until the water cooled off ....
GAH!

 

[RubyRed]

IMO one person could not do both without help.
IF they were burning him in scalding water... how did one of them not get burned too? if they were that close to a struggling toddler holding him down and keeping his mouth covered? naked kids are also slippery... maybe they left him clothed? the clothing would have continued to burn until the water cooled off ....
GAH!

I am thinking more along the lines of duct tape or something similar. We know they left him in his bedroom while they went to get married. They must have done something so that he would not scream for help.

 

[gngr~snap]

I am thinking more along the lines of duct tape or something similar. We know they left him in his bedroom while they went to get married. They must have done something so that he would not scream for help.

Ahh HAA! You are very good! I had NOT thought of that! maybe that's why Ethan's lips were SOOO swollen in that pic with NS?

 

[ella971]

Common sense tells me Ethan did not just turn on the hot water and then continue to sit in it. If he was burned by hot water he was forcibly placed in it by NS and held there while he struggled. I can't believe if that was the case no one heard his screams! (this was allegedly done while SS was at the store on the 7th?) Do we know the approx time? I think it was evening... somebody had to of heard him! MOO

This is hard to type but no one ever heard my screams. If they did they did nothing to help me.

 

[gngr~snap]

This is hard to type but no one ever heard my screams. If they did they did nothing to help me.

AWW I AM SO SORRY FOR YOU! :hug: but you are so right! Selective hearing- not wanting to get involved.

I know it's hard to do but I appreciate your input as someone who has been there... I wish you hadn't tho...