Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #17 *ARREST*

[Elliot_Alderson]

RSBBM

Miss Jackson if you're nasty

Apologies, but I couldn't resist!

I'm sorry, Miss Jackson.

 

[stmarysmead]

Let’s say he agrees to be a SD with “a real connection.” Doesn’t that interpretation mean (explanation upthread) that they are on an allowance basis, not a pay-as-you-go. This is a guy with no real steady source of income that we know of...yet given to hyperbole and outright lies. He may have agreed to any amount...and maybe even paid once or twice.

But now, he’s behind for services rendered. Yes, she’s texting with him and not her friends, because she wants that money. She wants it AS SOON as she gets back...no stalling.

Okay. Meet me at this park. I’ll have the cash. It’s right by a police station and anyway, she has no fear of him. The flight is delayed so it’s really late when they meet.

He doesn’t have the money. It goes terribly wrong from there.

 

[PommyMommy]

Lol.... Reminds me of one mother in NC that wrote a Colorado Judge demanding that he phone her to discuss her son's case (and convince him to change his guilty plea). She also didn't think the justice system fair to her and/or her son.

OMG, that was the first thing I thought of! Haha

 

[jillycat]

Here is Utah's criminal code on aggravated kidnapping:

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter5/76-5-S302.html

Yes, this. "Kidnapping" definitions and laws vary state to state. People have been citing laws from CA and elsewhere.

 

[scruffydog]

Warning: graphic

You are correct—they called it blunt force trauma. And that’s not how they’d describe a gunshot wound. I’m sure there’s all sorts of ways to differentiate, as you said, with the pattern of entry, the way the bones fractured. But I think there’s a more obvious way—a layman could almost do it. With a gunshot wound, one of two things would happen—either an exit wound on the other side of her skull, or the bullet would remain in her skull and could be detected by x-ray.

2: In the press conference, I believe the DA referred to it as ‘a bone.’ For me, that’s not the same as ‘a piece of bone.’ I wonder if it could be something small, like a toe bone, that came off as he tried to burn her body.

I

He pressured her and she is nice. She accommodated him because she is an accommodating person, perhaps because she was flattered by his attention. Even at 3am.

That's my take at the moment, subject to change.

jmo

not sure if this idea has come up-i can see a fake SD saying, “I’m taking you to some fabulous place- I’ll be packed and pick you up at this park- because I’ll be coming from a trip too ( from the opposite direction).. and everyone knows this park, it will be easy for the Lyft driver to find. ...

 

[Whiteorchids]

@PommyMommy can you find Tricia’s post about the new rape victim. I’d appreciate it. Your good at finding posts.

 

[magicforest]

The only theory I can come up with is AA owed her for her “time” she spent online with him. She just got back from her grandmothers funeral and had a lot going on once she got back. She may have needed the money right away and the only way he’d pay her is if she met him in person. So maybe that’s why she met him at an ungodly hour. I don’t think she would have met him unless she absolutely needed to. My opinion of course.

Agree. IMO, this is the only theory I can come up with as well. She did have a lot to deal with in a short period of time because of the trip home for her grandmother's funeral, finals coming up, and then she was going to turn around and fly back home again in a few days if I am remembering correctly. The grandmother's funeral trip could have interrupted her normal flow of paying bills, handling finances, every day life plans, etc. So if AA owed her money, AND he wanted to lure her to him in person, I can imagine him telling her some story like it's got to be tonight or else I won't be able to give you cash before you have to head back to CA in a few days. If I were a SB and someone said that to me, and my schedule was tighter than usual, and I had immediate bills to meet, I'd be more willing to meet my SD at 3am too. MOO.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

OK logically under what pretenses could you be setting up a meeting at 2:30 am ? Someone lay this out for me , I'm not getting it other than paid sex is this actually what we think happened , AFTER your g-mas funeral, somehow my head is spinning , and It doesn't feel right to me , but is there any other reason they could have been meeting at that hour ? and if it was for the Air B&B that makes no sense either , have we come up with anything else?

Just my opinion, bit I find it difficult to believe ML would meet up with AA just for sex. There has gotta be something more. What it is, is anyone's guess. AA is a liar, a con artist a predator and a whole lot more. My gut tells me she was lured to meet up with AA. Of course I could be wrong, but I dont think ML was that desperate (based on what we've heard from her friends) to meet AA under those circumstances for sex. He tricked her.

 

[?mysterian?]

Yes, I want more info as well, I so agree with your ETA, I would like to know the relationship and the park details more than anything but that is not going to happen any time soon most likely lol .

I don't have any far out theory in my opinion and it is not about being ready to post it, I just haven't--mostly been reading catching up the past few days, every time I leave to do something, pages have gone by . It matches probably the theory of some others. I think they did know each other before this occasion, based on what we know or have heard. I do not think this was some normal dating situation/breakfast. I think everything plays into what it appears interests and lifestyles were online and/or beyond the surface of those even.

I think the arrival from park to home was too quick for any fatal injury to have occurred at the park most likely and I doubt she was bound at the park either, although I do leave this open--control, injury and binding--but seriously seven or eight minutes just is not much time... I believe and have from the start that she was likely willing to be there right up to and including entry into the home, if who she met was who she expected to meet and he was alone.

I believe his goal from the start was to get her to his home.

Jmo.

Thanks! I agree with what you've posted. I'm not dead-set on it, I'm willing to change my mind as more information becomes public.

Also, I honestly wonder if he didn't plan to keep her around longer in his house if possible (if he had a place in his home to restrain her and keep her hidden and under his control) but something happened and he killed her, allegedly, before that could happen.

 

[Whiteorchids]

The only theory I can come up with is AA owed her for her “time” she spent online with him. She just got back from her grandmothers funeral and had a lot going on once she got back. She may have needed the money right away and the only way he’d pay her is if she met him in person. So maybe that’s why she met him at an ungodly hour. I don’t think she would have met him unless she absolutely needed to. My opinion of course.

This works.

 

[PommyMommy]

@PommyMommy can you find Tricia’s post about the new rape victim. I’d appreciate it. Your good at finding posts.

Yes, see below.

Dear Websleuths members and guests,

A woman who has been reading at Websleuths reached out to me and said she was raped by A.A. In my opinion she is being absolutely truthful. She has agreed to let me ask her questions about what happened to her and what has happened since Kenzie was murdered.

When I post what she tells me we will not allow anyone to be snarky, judgemental, or behave in any way other than respectful. If you choose not to believe her that's fine. Just scroll by without comment.

Later tomorrow I will begin posting her story

Thank you
Tricia

 

[Inthedetails]

Well, those are his secrets, not what he had told ML. He was a predator.

Oh! I thought the line of thinking with this comment was that the meeting was a mundane meeting by both parties and something went awry to set him off. Sorry.

I'm thinking this was totally planned by AA to be sexual and violent (and not consensual and he was tricking her).

jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

I came up with "something else" as a motivation for ML to meet AA in that park.

He had his house set up with all those cameras, 3 in the bedroom. His roommates say he would get ballistic if people moved a chair the wrong way - he was very particular about his interior design.

I think he was streaming things to the internet and that she needed a place to do her webcam thing. It's hard to do in a room with your sorority sisters (although during the day, when everyone's at school is possible - and it's not just the nature of the video, it's also that background noise, etc., is an issue in these SD/SB encounters).

AA used his cameras to lure her to his home. She didn't want anyone who might know her digital whereabouts to know that she was going to a stranger house in the middle of the night OR he told her that he had to be on the down low, due to the nature of his own online presence). At any rate, they may have agreed that it was best if it not be obvious she was at his house all night.

Perfect situation for him to enact his fantasy crime, which he had been planning for a long time. He couldn't lure those Mormon girls from his stake (he was visiting two, I think) and MK would have found him creepy if he hadn't been offering her this "generous" service and use of his house for this purpose.

Clearly, an invention around the facts on my part. MOO. While she had not allowed her parents access to her phone (which caused a delay in finding her texts), it's possible that her phone was trackable from her computer and she didn't want anyone to know where she was headed - not even a roommate.

At any rate, I think there was a lure that specifically benefitted MK, that she didn't want her whereabouts determined. She may have turned off her own phone (and she may have done that on other occasions, when she was out and about and not wanting to be found by her friends). It would be hard to know whether or not this is true, obviously.

I think that's a really good theory. He may have offered her a lot of extra money, more than she was used to, to film at his own house. Imo

 

[Smoneywcbs]

I came up with "something else" as a motivation for ML to meet AA in that park.

He had his house set up with all those cameras, 3 in the bedroom. His roommates say he would get ballistic if people moved a chair the wrong way - he was very particular about his interior design.

I think he was streaming things to the internet and that she needed a place to do her webcam thing. It's hard to do in a room with your sorority sisters (although during the day, when everyone's at school is possible - and it's not just the nature of the video, it's also that background noise, etc., is an issue in these SD/SB encounters).

AA used his cameras to lure her to his home. She didn't want anyone who might know her digital whereabouts to know that she was going to a stranger house in the middle of the night OR he told her that he had to be on the down low, due to the nature of his own online presence). At any rate, they may have agreed that it was best if it not be obvious she was at his house all night.

Perfect situation for him to enact his fantasy crime, which he had been planning for a long time. He couldn't lure those Mormon girls from his stake (he was visiting two, I think) and MK would have found him creepy if he hadn't been offering her this "generous" service and use of his house for this purpose.

Clearly, an invention around the facts on my part. MOO. While she had not allowed her parents access to her phone (which caused a delay in finding her texts), it's possible that her phone was trackable from her computer and she didn't want anyone to know where she was headed - not even a roommate.

At any rate, I think there was a lure that specifically benefitted MK, that she didn't want her whereabouts determined. She may have turned off her own phone (and she may have done that on other occasions, when she was out and about and not wanting to be found by her friends). It would be hard to know whether or not this is true, obviously.

IMO this is possible. That might be how he made money.

16 years ago I lived in a duplex. The main floor wasn’t shared but stairs to the downstairs was shared. In the basement there were doors on each side of the bottom of the stairs (both with locks).

When I moved in, my neighbors were a couple with 2 kids. Seemed nice enough. Until the husband invited me down to look at their side of the basement. He opened the door and proceeded to show me a bed with cameras around it. Then asked if I wanted to make money. I was horrified. That is how that couple made all their money. His wife got in front of the camera and did whatever whoever was paying her told her to. She told me if I did it sometimes you could get paid $200 for chewing on a piece of gum.

They seriously creeped me out and wouldn’t leave me alone for 2 weeks so I told the landlord, he saw the room and kicked them out.

I’ve wondered if this scenario was possible with ML as she wanted “online only” SD’s. She had roommates so it’s entirely possible she met AA and that was the place she might have gotten on cam for whoever wanted to pay her. If girls were coming and going all the time it could’ve been an arrangement like my old neighbors. They had girls going in the basement for that very reason.

The only problem with this theory is why get picked up at the park? I can’t find one explanation that makes sense. Maybe he told her he had a new location...

IMO always

ETA: the biggest reason I think this is a possible scenario is the CAMERAS WERE NOT HIDDEN. If he wanted to secretly film, he would have hidden them.

 

[Angelcat13]

I think it is possible that KL had met AA before. I think it is very possible that she was not afraid of him because they had met previously. Their arrangement may have included things like submission--hence, meet me at the park because that is what I want, turning off the phone immediately and possibly even handcuffing as part of the encounter. It may have turned deadly after the encounter at the house. If he had her tied up, he could have gone to get a weapon with no issue even if he was in a rage or part of the plan to kill her.

No judgment from me on any action she took. She clearly did not agree to be butchered by this monster.

In the last thread, @Inthedetails wrote (and I totally agree with this):
"No matter where any of us fall on the spectrum of "judging/not judging SB/SD," I bet we all agree that even if it's wrong, the punishment should not be to be tied up, hit over the head, burned, and buried."

It is important to remember that as we look at this crime we can easily err on the side of blaming. ML erred in being to trusting of a man she was talking with but didn't deserve any of what happened to her.

I know you are in no way blaming ML, and I also believe that those of us here on WS are very victim-friendly and don’t blame ML or other victims either.

Your post reminded me of something from a lecture by a victims’ advocate. She said that people often blame a victim in order to “separate” themselves from the victim - if I can blame a victim for what happened to them - because of something they said or did, where they were, who they were with, etc - and I DON’T do those things, then I am SAFE.

After all, it can be very frightening to believe that all of us could be a victim and know that “there, but for the grace of God, go I”.

 

[PrairieWind]

Thanks! I agree with what you've posted. I'm not dead-set on it, I'm willing to change my mind as more information becomes public.

Also, I honestly wonder if he didn't plan to keep her around longer in his house if possible (if he had a place in his home to restrain her and keep her hidden and under his control) but something happened and he killed her, allegedly, before that could happen.

I agree. Given his attempts to build a soundproof room, etc, I think he intended to keep her for a bit. But that changed, either accidentally or he decided to cut it short for some reason.

 

[Jealoushe]

I have a comment about those who think it was anaccident that went south, one thing that screams it is not an accident cover up to me is the fact he spent a lot of time with her body. Burned her, did whatever else, and took her body to be dumped days later. If he was truly panicked, he would have just dumped the body that night. JMO.

Looking forward to Tricias interview with the victim tomorrow, thank you for your bravery in coming forward.

 

[Seattle1]

Ms Fashakin is confused. She of all people should know that being a retained attorney for “the parent of the man accused” does not give her access to the man accused- or his public defender.

Especially if he’s an adult. Wouldn’t it be a violation of his attorney client privilege if they shared info with his family’s attorney??? What law school did this woman go to?

I think there are two issues.

In addition to being humiliated having to wear jail attire not tailored to his body, Ms. Fashakin alleges that AA has not met with an attorney since his arrest. If that is true, then it would not be possible for AA to give his consent to his public defender to speak with his family. You can't have it both ways, Ms. Fashakin.....

Second, the public defender, like all defense attorneys, represents the client. If the client doesn't authorize the disclosure of information to third parties (whether family or not), the public defender won't disclose much beyond what the next court date is -- as a courtesy.

What offer(s) have been made by the district attorney, the evidence in the case, etc. most likely won't be disclosed to the family unless the client specifically asks his attorney to tell his family members.

MOO

 

[?mysterian?]

Let’s say he agrees to be a SD with “a real connection.” Doesn’t that interpretation mean (explanation upthread) that they are on an allowance basis, not a pay-as-you-go. This is a guy with no real steady source of income that we know of...yet given to hyperbole and outright lies. He may have agreed to any amount...and maybe even paid once or twice.

But now, he’s behind for services rendered. Yes, she’s texting with him and not her friends, because she wants that money. She wants it AS SOON as she gets back...no stalling.

Okay. Meet me at this park. I’ll have the cash. It’s right by a police station and anyway, she has no fear of him. The flight is delayed so it’s really late when they meet.

He doesn’t have the money. It goes terribly wrong from there.

What about her "internet-only" stipulation? Why deviate from that?

 

[MsBetsy]

But she posted at 11:15 PM yesterday, saying tomorrow, which would be today, right?

That's what I thought too, but that was according to my time, I think. I guess it depends on what her time was at that time. If that makes sense.