Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #17 *ARREST*

[Inthedetails]

I know you are in no way blaming ML, and I also believe that those of us here on WS are very victim-friendly and don’t blame ML or other victims either.

Your post reminded me of something from a lecture by a victims’ advocate. She said that people often blame a victim in order to “separate” themselves from the victim - if I can blame a victim for what happened to them - because of something they said or did, where they were, who they were with, etc - and I DON’T do those things, then I am SAFE.

After all, it can be very frightening to believe that all of us could be a victim and know that “there, but for the grace of God, go I”.

I also think that sometimes we say things are okay because we don't want to see ourselves as either being a victim (at worst) or being played, taken advantage of, used, etc.

jmo

 

[PrairieWind]

I have a comment about those who think it was anaccident that went south, one thing that screams it is not an accident cover up to me is the fact he spent a lot of time with her body. Burned her, did whatever else, and took her body to be dumped days later. If he was truly panicked, he would have just dumped the body that night. JMO.

Looking forward to Tricias interview with the victim tomorrow, thank you for your bravery in coming forward.

When I said he could have accidentally killed her I meant that he maybe accidently killed her sooner than planned. I believe its most likely he had planned to kidnap her, keep her for a while and then eventually kill her. But maybe he got too rough right off the bat, or she tried to escape and he hit her or something. But I do think he intended to kill her all along.

 

[MsBetsy]

I actually think he lured her with the promise of money, but didn't actually have the money. I think he was a predator that found his prey. JMO

I doubt he had the money, either. He knew he wouldn't actually need it. Imo

 

[wary]

What about her "internet-only" stipulation? Why deviate from that?

I forget the exact wording, but at the time I read it I had the impression that it was one of several options.

 

[MsBetsy]

IMO this is possible. That might be how he made money.

16 years ago I lived in a duplex. The main floor wasn’t shared but stairs to the downstairs was shared. In the basement there were doors on each side of the bottom of the stairs (both with locks).

When I moved in, my neighbors were a couple with 2 kids. Seemed nice enough. Until the husband invited me down to look at their side of the basement. He opened the door and proceeded to show me a bed with cameras around it. Then asked if I wanted to make money. I was horrified. That is how that couple made all their money. His wife got in front of the camera and did whatever whoever was paying her told her to. She told me if I did it sometimes you could get paid $200 for chewing on a piece of gum.

They seriously creeped me out and wouldn’t leave me alone for 2 weeks so I told the landlord, he saw the room and kicked them out.

I’ve wondered if this scenario was possible with ML as she wanted “online only” SD’s. She had roommates so it’s entirely possible she met AA and that was the place she might have gotten on cam for whoever wanted to pay her. If girls were coming and going all the time it could’ve been an arrangement like my old neighbors. They had girls going in the basement for that very reason.

The only problem with this theory is why get picked up at the park? I can’t find one explanation that makes sense. Maybe he told her he had a new location...

IMO always

ETA: the biggest reason I think this is a possible scenario is the CAMERAS WERE NOT HIDDEN. If he wanted to secretly film, he would have hidden them.

Or maybe he had not yet filmed her there, and told her he just wanted to show her the room where he would be filming, with the promise to pay half the money upfront or something like that. She certainly didn't look like she was in any condition to film anything that night. Or morning, I mean. Imo

 

[1987]

to who ever it is out there that is a victim that is doing the interview with tricia thank you!

 

[SoCalGirl]

It all stops making sense when she takes a Lyft from airport to park. It really feels like that is the point we all get stuck at. I think instead of trying to figure out how they knew each other or why they met, if we can narrow down reasons to take a lyft to a location that is 7 minutes from the perceived final location I think we will start finding our answers. Myself personally I am stumped.

Because she didn't know Hatch Park was 7 minutes from his house or whatever location he promised to take her to.

 

[MyBelle]

I agree- we don’t want anything to jeopardize a life sentence or DP. This office seems like a boatload of newbies with few highly experienced attys. I think Neal drew the short straw.
Neal Hamilton

The best attorney on the planet won't do AA any good. I think the best plea deal he'll get is the DP taken off the table.

JMO

 

[SoCalGirl]

Question...do we know if she texted him when she boarded or when she landed? If a meeting was prearranged, the flight being late would mean she would need to contact him that their meeting would be delayed.

One reason to meet was that he owed her money and she needed it. Meeting at the park doesn’t strike her as odd because they are both keeping their anonymity in the SB/SD relationship. She understands that he may not want her to know where he lives. She plans to call another Lyft after she collects.

He turns up with more excuses, no money. They argue. She’s in the car...he says okay...I’ll get you your “allowance”...at my house.

He’s mad and embarrassed. She’s determined to get what’s owed her.

Could be....

Except Venmo will pay into your account directly, no need to meet up to hand over money. My twenty-something boys use Venmo with their friends for everything. They prefer it to cash.

 

[MsBetsy]

What about her "internet-only" stipulation? Why deviate from that?

I don't think she had an internet -only stipulation.
Apparently everything is agreed upon in advance, and I'm sure that includes going on dates and seeing each other in person. Online-only was just one thing she was involved with. She named about two other dating sites. Imo

 

[stmarysmead]

What about her "internet-only" stipulation? Why deviate from that?

Good point. But maybe she needed the money really badly. Maybe she did pay for the trip home. She may have insisted he pay her as soon as she got home..land all those texts were about her insistence and when and how.

I feel this meeting had some real benefit to ML ...and I think it was financial. Either collecting money owed from a deadbeat SD...or participating in a lucrative money making endeavor at his home.

The live-streaming or making of videos could fit. Still, n her mind, “Internet-only.”

The previous women coming and going could well indicate this source of income and a new opportunity for a ML who thought of this as a business...and maybe saw him as a “producer.”

How big was her suitcase? More than meh be needed for a quick trip home for a funeral?

 

[MyBelle]

The zip ties and rope was discovered Jul 3, 7 days after he was arrested for aggravated kidnapping, murder, etc. The remains found in the fire pit clearly points to murder .

I think I answered my own question. I did some more searching and found this:

"Fraud” is only involved in aggravated kidnapping. It is defined as any type of deliberate or intentional misrepresentation (i.e. a trick) for the defendant’s own benefit. This type of conduct is common in rape and lewd acts with a minor cases, wherein defendant promises the victim to take her home, but in fact has no intention of going to the victim’s home."

What Is Kidnapping and Aggravated Kidnapping? Defenses? :: San Pedro, California Kidnapping Lawyers Greg Hill & Associates

MYO. Perhaps AA lured ML into meeting him by representig himself in a fradulent way. When ML got in the car it was under false pretenses thereby pointing to aggravated kidnapping because she was later killed.

I think their text message exchange points to fraud. AA may have been posing as a SD to lure his prey.

JMO

 

[wary]

Except Venmo will pay into your account directly, no need to meet up to hand over money. My twenty-something boys use Venmo with their friends for everything. They prefer it to cash.

Can’t he make an excuse to not use Venmo, if he wants to?

Someone paid him in cash, and he’d rather pass it on, rather than depositing in the middle of the night?

Something went haywire with his Venmo account. He’s jumped through all the reset password hoops, but it still isn’t working.

 

[Boxer]

I think their text message exchange points to fraud. AA may have been posing as a SD to lure his prey.

JMO

Good point, and the police could identify the fraud from AA texts before they met.

 

[crhedBngr]

Following.

 

[mountainflower]

Not sure if this was brought up, but AA's profile pic for his Air BnB listing was him with a woman, side by side.

Maybe it was real or perhaps just a smoke screen to make single women feel more comfortable booking a room, thinking there was also a woman in the house.

No other reports I've seen, even from neighbors, indicate a girlfriend. But that doesn't mean she doesn't exist. I do not think this is the "Mormon girlfriend" coming back into town that he had to hide the "wine racks" from.

 

[10ofRods]

Maybe instead of looking at it that way, maybe look at what reasons (lies) AA would give ML to meet him in the park via Lyft instead of him picking her up and/or she taking the Lyft all the way to his house.

1. I have a girlfriend and can't be seen with you in my car near the airport
2. I have visitors staying at the AirBNB and don't need you driving up to my house and waking them up at this early hour
3. Your flight was delayed so instead of circling forever, I left. Parked in the park, meet me there.

???

I really like 2 and 3 on your list. Especially 3. But 2 works very well too. He would have chosen Hatch Park because he used to live next to it. She wouldn't really have a frame of reference - it's not that far from his current house. Also could be communicated quickly in text. Their joint destination was always his house, for whatever reason.

4. I’m hanging out at a friend’s place where I used to live. Take a Lyft up there and I’ll pick you up at the park.

5. They’re doing middle-of-the-night road work near my place. The GPS will go insane. Better to just go to the park and I’ll pick you up there. (Anyone who has the same memories that I do will find this one very plausible.)

More good ones! Especially 4.

What a loser he is, though, to think that turning off her phone was enough to keep his phone from being tracked throughout his entire sinister plot. I wonder if he's one of those people who think that airport mode alone will keep a phone from "pinging" and that "pinging" is the only thing to worry about. He should have read way more true crime, like the rest of us.

I am now convinced that meeting in the park was entirely his idea, but I find it hard to believe he overpowered and took her phone at that point. I like the various theories that he gained access to her phone secretly while she loaded her luggage or under a pretext. "My girlfriend is very tech savvy, I don't want any evidence that you were at my house." I dunno, that part is still hard to explain.

 

[Zella]

Not sure if this was brought up, but AA's profile pic for his Air BnB listing was him with a woman, side by side.

Maybe it was real or perhaps just a smoke screen to make single women feel more comfortable booking a room, thinking there was also a woman in the house.

No other reports I've seen, even from neighbors, indicate a girlfriend. But that doesn't mean she doesn't exist. I do not think this is the "Mormon girlfriend" coming back into town that he had to hide the "wine racks" from.

I remember seeing the girl in his profile pic and honestly assuming it was the ex-wife until she came forward.

 

[PrairieWind]

I think their text message exchange points to fraud. AA may have been posing as a SD to lure his prey.

JMO

I think this is certainly plausible.

 

[wary]

I think this is certainly plausible.

One thing that might make this even more plausible is the fact that ML also used Tinder as a way to search for a SD. So he might have been on Tinder just looking for women, found her, and then played along with the SD idea. (Did this guy ever tell the truth about anything about himself?)