omegagal
Active Member
Josh Powell Very Intelligent / Halted Language (OMG that is my X to a T as well)
http://connect2utah.com/content/news/story?cid=67802
http://connect2utah.com/content/news/story?cid=67802
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Psychopath's do not medicate.... They do not want any changes in their otherwise "perfect" selves.I think this is how it happened also....
other than we don’t know if they were Susan’s pills…
they could have been his!
Where does Josh's sister live--the one where the little boys and Josh have been staying? Do we know?
(Gosh, I hate to even be thinking what I am thinking right now.)
IMOPsychopath's do not medicate.... They do not want any changes in their otherwise "perfect" selves.
How far from West Valley? Or is it like the other side of the state?
I could not tell you what religion Scott Peterson, Jason Young, Drew
Peterson, Craig Stebic, or Brad Cooper are, or if they were counseled by
their Bishop, Priest, or private counselor, and IMO it doesn't matter.
Some Bishops, Priest, and private counselors may have suggested
for their wives to stick it out and work on their marriages too.
I just think it's sad that when other cases like this happen
we don't hash their religion ... it seems to only be a problem when they
are LDS.
A lot of people, in a lot of different religions have problems with abuse,
drugs, *advertiser censored* etc.
. not just Mormons.
At this point we dont even know if Josh was an active Mormon,
or if they even went to be counseled by their Bishop or anyone else
for that matter.
I just see another psychopath man who probably killed his wife.
Where does Josh's sister live--the one where the little boys and Josh have been staying? Do we know?
(Gosh, I hate to even be thinking what I am thinking right now.)
I'm sick....
I just did a white pages look up and there is a Kirk Graves
that lives in West Jordan.
Yes, I'm sure their Mormon lifestyle of a patriarchal based religion where men are told they "can be Gods" and where women drop out of college to allow their husbands to continue their educations while women are expected to stay at home and crochet (okay how many 28 year old non LDS woman out there crochet, grow vegetables, can and bake their own bread??) has nothing to do with any of this.......I really don't believe it's a religion issue. Let's face it, Utah is predominantly LDS and Susan and Josh Powell, and their respective families, are LDS. We know that Susan was very active in her church and we know that she addressed her marriage issues there.
We're simply discussing the facts that we have here and some posters have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of the LDS church. It is what it is.
My theory of what happened is based on what I have read, seen and heard so far on this case as well as personal experiences in the church and with a psychopath. Any licensed clinicians with additional experience with psychopaths, narcissists and abuse please feel free to chime in.
Background: I think around the time Susan had her first baby things she only barely noticed in Josh's personality started becoming more distinct. The control and power issues were now at full force. (Someone on the earlier news report said Susan and Josh seemed to be doing well and were happy when they first moved to the area 5 years ago)
One of the first things an abuser will do is take the woman away from her support system (family in Washington) He has family in Utah. Obviously they did not move there because he had this wonderful, high paying career waiting for him. What he didn't expect is that Susan was strong and well liked and would develop a support system in her new community. It must have driven him wild to see how competent and happy she could find herself, especially without him being the reason for her happiness. After all she was merely an extension of himself as were "his" children.
Over the last couple of months: The power and control issues were getting worse and worse. Susan had made a couple of very smart moves. She had gotten a decent job. Josh had been telling her for some time that if she left, she would never be able to support herself. He probably said "Look at me, I can't even handle a full time job. Do you think a judge is ever going to give you enough support that you could live off it?" The psychopath always underestimates his victim. They may have started out with marital counseling but more than likely the counselor (probably from LDS Family Services) realized after a few interviews, it was an abuse issue not a marital issue. That means that Susan was probably in counseling with a private counselor as well as her bishop. Psychopaths never subcomb to treatment. After all they are smarter and wiser than any professional counselor so Josh would never see a counselor or admit the abuse. Susan was probably put on either anti-depressants, anti-anxiety or sleeping pills or some combination of these. This would give Josh the opportunity to start telling people that Susan "wasn't right" or that she was "unstable". He would love to believe that but no one else was really buying into it. So things started getting worse and worse for Josh. She had to be stopped.
Currently: I think that Susan and Josh had an enormous fight or "power struggle" Saturday night or Sunday morning before church. Josh said he wasn't going to church, Susan went. Her friend Kriisi (sp?) said she didn't see Susan at church but saw her when walking home. I bet Susan was in the bishop's office telling him what had just happened. You DO see your best friends during church at least some time during the 3 hours you attend. Josh knowing his time was about out, made a plan. While Susan was at church, he took Susan's entire bottle of sleeping pills and crushed them, planning to put them in her food at dinner, then leaving with the boys for sledding to come home to find that Susan had killed herself with an overdose of sleeping pills. His plan backfired because as usual Susan messed with the plan. Instead Susan invited someone to come over after church for an early dinner. This drove Josh nuts as he had already crushed all the pills. What if Susan saw all of her pills missing???? So Josh went along with the plan. Very interesting how he didn't serve a casserole but make individual "pancakes" and scrambled eggs. I'll bet you anything that you can not taste medication in eggs or perhaps juice. Then he has to keep checking on her during dinner. This is the point where he starts getting schizoid because of the change of plans. He tells her friend that he's taking the boys sledding to show he's going to be out of the house with the boys for a while hoping that will cover his butte and get her to leave. Susan starts feeling poorly and needs to lie down. The friend leaves and he takes the boys out for a while to let his poor wife die in bed, figuring when he gets home he can put the bottle next to her bed. Only instead, when he left Susan got up out of bed, making it to the living room collapses on the floor where she proceeds to foam at the mouth or vomit. When he comes home he finds her like this. I think he's not the "good dad" as people make him out to be. Psychopaths are too lazy to be good parents. They are controlling parents. Josh would have put the kids either back in the car right away (oldest one up front as he can talk) or put them in a room by themselves while he put Susan in the van and started to clean up. He probably got all that together by 12:30. The oldest child must have known that Susan was in the back of the van, though and probably asked his dad some good questions. (that child and DNA are going to be Susan's saving grace) I think since Josh told reporters he was south and then west of SLC that Josh actually went just the opposite way, either north or east. I also think he pulled off on the side of the road and the oldest child saw "woods" or "trees" in the head lights. Not a forest, not a desert, not a heavy snowstorm but "woods/trees". Meanwhile Josh came around to the back of the van and took Susan's body out and either (must still be an active suicide plan) put her in a large body of water near a bridge or even worst put her in a sewer hole. I do think he's smart and just playing dumb. But I don't think he's brilliant and he's certainly no where near as brilliant as he thinks he is.
Also, I agree with the lip thing. It's almost a smirk of contempt for LE and the press. When he says I just want to find her, I hear him saying "and you won't find her". Listen and watch that interview by his car again. Seems like he's just evil and taunting the press.
omegagal said:Psychopaths never subcomb to treatment. After all they are smarter and wiser than any professional counselor so Josh would never see a counselor or admit the abuse.
Psychopath's do not medicate.... They do not want any changes in their otherwise "perfect" selves.
Another great book People of the Lie by M. Scott Peck on human evil and malignant narcissisim for those interested in learning more about narcissism and evil...
Yes, previously posted as someone wanted to know my previous discussion on background. Good find on Sam Vadkin. There is a great video with Sam Vadkin in "I, Psychopath" on the following websitePlease tell me this was posted previously... that, or I was having a religious premonition lolol... :crazy: :waitasec:
Not sure whether he was strictly NPD or possibly sociopath, but believe me when I tell you... they will manipulate every intervention they are offered.
Dr. Peck's book is an eye-opener. Dr. Sam Vaknin's "Malignant Self-Love" is also a great study on pathological narcissism. JMO
arrot:
Yes, I'm sure their Mormon lifestyle of a patriarchal based religion where men are told they "can be Gods" and where woman drop out of college to allow their husbands to continue their educations while woman are expected to stay at home and crochet (okay how many 28 year old non LDS woman out there crochet, grow vegetables, can and bake their own bread??) has nothing to do with any of this.......
Of course it has something to do with... any psychologist will tell you someone whose entire life revolves around their religion will be effected by the cultural side of it as well....
As Fairy1 says, It is what it is...
Hi everyone! So I work with someone who lives in the apartment complex where the murder suicudes took place, and we were just discussing it. It is apparently a family with 2 adults and 2 children, but it isn't tied to this case I don't think. Rumors around the complex are that this was an abusive relationship as well, and that someone called police because they were concerned that the family hadn't been seen in a while.
With regard to the conversations about LDS Bishops, these are regular men with families and such who haven't studied in any college or school to be a bishop. They hold regular everyday 9 to 5 jobs. They just simply must be "chosen and called", and then ordained as a bishop. They are not paid for what they do, and they completely volunteer their time for their calling.
In my own experiences, when I was facing difficulty with my ex-husband, the bishop referred us to a professional marriage counselor and the church helped to cover the cost since we were unable to. At no time did he encourage me to stay in an abusive situation. Quite the opposite, the church provided the resources with which to leave.
I could not tell you what religion Scott Peterson, Jason Young, Drew
Peterson, Craig Stebic, or Brad Cooper are, or if they were counseled by
their Bishop, Priest, or private counselor, and IMO it doesn't matter.
Some Bishops, Priest, and private counselors may have suggested
for their wives to stick it out and work on their marriages too.
I just think it's sad that when other cases like this happen
we don't hash their religion ... it seems to only be a problem when they
are LDS.
A lot of people, in a lot of different religions have problems with abuse,
drugs, *advertiser censored* etc.
…. not just Mormons.
At this point we don’t even know if Josh was an active Mormon,
or if they even went to be counseled by their Bishop or anyone else
for that matter.
I just see another psychopath man who probably killed his wife.
IB]I really don't believe it's a religion issue[/B]. Let's face it, Utah is predominantly LDS and Susan and Josh Powell, and their respective families, are LDS. We know that Susan was very active in her church and we know that she addressed her marriage issues there.
We're simply discussing the facts that we have here and some posters have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of the LDS church. It is what it is.
Psychopath's do not medicate.... They do not want any changes in their otherwise "perfect" selves.
Another great book People of the Lie by M. Scott Peck on human evil and malignant narcissisim for those interested in learning more about narcissism and evil...
And not too long ago a report came out that showed Utah had the highest number of paid online *advertiser censored* subscriptions. It might very well be true, but many folks just laughed it off saying it just showed most Utahn's were to naive to know you can get it for free - so they figure the numbers might not be all that accurate.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...iser censored*-subscriptions-report-says.html
This is very true! Many many times when the local news stations are showing a story about someone i.e. house fire, illness, accident etc, they're somehow able to put a slant on it to show if the people are Mormon or not and actually it seems to me that when they're showing someone to try and get them some support, the people are generally Mormon. dh does not watch certain news channels because they are so slanted towards Mormon issues where if something bad happens and the person who did it is Mormon, the story doesn't get covered.
VB