UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #3

[JennaLee]

Whoa! OT side note! I just noticed that I've received quite a few responses to my previous Utah info request. Dang that tiny little notification bar. I always forget it's there!

Since many who responded are likely reading this thread, allow me to throw out a quick thanks and let y'all know that I'll read each response in detail and reply tomorrow when my brain is fresh. It's nearly 1:00 AM here and while not quite to the point of dropping off, I am starting to feel stupid. You know, kind of like I haven't slept in 17 hours...

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Here's the actual report; http://people.hbs.edu/bedelman/papers/redlightstates.pdf

IMO, sexual urges are let out one way or another. Repression makes wanting all the more necessary. :twocents:



With all due respect it seems the LDS covers up a lot of stuff about Joseph Smith too. The LDS seems, IMO, to play down JS and focus more on Brigham Young.

I live a stones throw away from Palmyra where the Angel Moroni told Joseph Smith of the solid gold plates buried 1400 years ago under a rock on a nearby hillside. Moroni instructed Joseph to never show these plates to anyone and it was from these solid gold plates that he was able to write the Book of Mormon.

Every year they have the Hill Cumorah Pageant. I've never gone but I might in 2010. I think it would be interesting.

http://www.hillcumorah.org/Pageant/Program.aspx

I have a friend that lives close to you and she goes to it. She says it is a great show.

 

[Steely Dan]

Mayelf, I am so glad you are with us to share your story and give hope to someone who might need that bump to move forward like you did! :blowkiss:


As for the Mormon part...my mom's family were all Mormons and I am not at all. My family history goes back to when Joseph Smith was alive and yes, some of my ancestors were polygamists back in the 1800s. However, there isn't one person in my family history who believed that abuse was allowed. NEVER. In fact, I was told by my grandparents never to let a man hit me - EVER.

I think abusers will use whatever means they can to make excuses for their behavior. Religion would be just one excuse.

If I had a daughter I'd tell her that the first time a man lays a hand on her in anger and/or is verbally abusive she needs to break off the relationship immediately. The longer a woman stays the more power the man gains. I also believe that doing that makes it easier for the man to disconnect. JMO

Too many women think (In my best fawning) "I can change him". Thanks a lot Hollywood. Trust me 1 in a 1000 men may change but a woman is fighting a severe uphill battle at her own peril. Stick with the guys who are nice and supportive and loving from the beginning. 'Nuff said.

 

[Steely Dan]

Steely Dan, what you wrote is interesting and I'll bet we could have fun discussing that topic. However, we aren't to discuss religions on WS due to MAJOR problems in the past. I think we used to even have a religion forum way back when that was shut down. Just letting you know before the thread gets too far off topic.

I can't send you a private message for some reason. :waitasec:

 

[omegagal]

That's so funny! I actually do crochet and grow my own vegetables - tho I stopped baking bread long ago! :crazy: I also smoke and drink and work full-time and my DH is not controlling - nor can I be controlled.

That being said....while my ex was not controlling, per se, he did categorically destroy my life via drinking and gambling. It took me a looooong time to leave - much longer than anyone who knows me would have thought. I had two babies and no where really to go. I did tell my family, with whom I was very close. But they loved him and didn't want to believe it was as bad as it was. For the most part, they advised me to stay. But I didn't and eventually, they saw why.

We're not LDS - or anything else, but that's the way it went down. I don't want to say my loving family didn't support me, but it did take a while....

Seeing Susan's family today at the PC was difficult. They are obviously in pain and so worried. As I said before, I doubt anyone in Susan's life ever imagined Josh would kill her, but it seems plenty of people knew there were serious problems in the marriage. IMO, no amount of any religion can fix some things.

Are you non LDS and 28 years old female??? Very interesting. Very rare...

 

[kiki the parrot]

Catching up on today's coverage, it is so heartbreaking to see Susan's family so distraught and anguished over their loved one. No one seems surprised to hear JP became now a POI and even the BIL seems to have changed his former tune...
arrot:

 

[Kimster]

If I had a daughter I'd tell her that the first time a man lays a hand on her in anger and/or is verbally abusive she needs to break off the relationship immediately. The longer a woman stays the more power the man gains. I also believe that doing that makes it easier for the man to disconnect. JMO

Too many women think (In my best fawning) "I can change him". Thanks a lot Hollywood. Trust me 1 in a 1000 men may change but a woman is fighting a severe uphill battle at her own peril. Stick with the guys who are nice and supportive and loving from the beginning. 'Nuff said.

And I told my boys that if they ever hit a woman, I hope they go to jail!!!

 

[kiki the parrot]

If I had a daughter I'd tell her that the first time a man lays a hand on her in anger and/or is verbally abusive she needs to break off the relationship immediately. The longer a woman stays the more power the man gains. I also believe that doing that makes it easier for the man to disconnect. JMO

Too many women think (In my best fawning) "I can change him". Thanks a lot Hollywood. Trust me 1 in a 1000 men may change but a woman is fighting a severe uphill battle at her own peril. Stick with the guys who are nice and supportive and loving from the beginning. 'Nuff said.

Need I ask, aren't they all pretty nice, supportive and loving... in the beginning... lol. :crazy:

arrot:

 

[harleysnana]

Let’s hope tomorrow is the day that Susan is found!

 

[omegagal]

(bbm) This is encouraging to hear, as I posted it is only "some" churches which fail to address the issue or respond to the cries for help appropriately and I'm relieved and grateful that you were truly helped in a time of need.





AFAIC religion is just another tool in a manipulator's "repertoire," or weapon in the abuser's "arsenal." I was clear to emphasize right off the bat that my own observations weren't exclusive to any one particular faith but I was speaking collectively. I have not noticed anyone bashing. JMO

arrot:

kiki the parrot - I think they meant bash and not hash, too. I haven't found anyone's postings to be bashing, offensive, objectionable or illegal. Very interesting and insightful though truly. Lots of great ideas on who/what/when/why regarding Susan's disappearance.....

 

[gitana1]

Vegas Bride... . I agree! I think he probably pulled off to the side of the road
and dumped her.
The problem is that she could be anywhere from Nevada to Idaho!

I don't know. I'm kind of thinking that if he really had signs of frostbite on his hands, possibly he spent some time in the snow with a shovel in his hands or with snow in his hands, covering a body.

I just saw the press conference. The spokesperson is such an intelligent person. My heart really broke for the lovely family. I think everyone is trying to tiptoe around possibly to make sure the boys stay safe and/or to keep on Josh's good side in the hopes that he will communicate to someone. I cannot imagine how horribly scared the family must feel and heartbroken. And right before Christmas just so the holiday will forever more be linked by them to the loss of their beloved family member. It's horrific.

 

[omegagal]

Again, be careful with generalities. There is nothing in the LDS Church that systemically sponsors or approves of abuse. LDS Bishops are lay ministers. The calling is typically six years, and there is no pay involved - not even a stipend. Bishops will typically spend 30-50 hours per week for their calling. This is their own time - they still maintain their jobs, and their family responsibilities.

Nobody claims the LDS Church is perfect. It's not. But I grew up in a church with a pastor that earned two to three times the average household income of those in the congregation. We would go out to his home for activities, and we were always so in awe of how beautiful/luxurious it was - a home he paid for from the tithes he collected from his congregation. This same pastor was sued about ten years ago for ignoring sexual abuse by one of his deacons. The man was raping four of his own daughters over the course of nearly a decade. All of the young women approached this pastor about the abuse at one time or another. His counsel to them was to stop wearing anything revealing around their homes, so as to stop tempting and arousing their father. The bottom line is church people are usually not counselors/therapists. An effective leader - in church, business, politics, or whatever - is someone who understands his limitations and weaknesses.

omegagal is right in that LDS Bishops should refer cases of abuse to professionals. But that is what they are supposed to do. That is what the Church instructs them to do. Unfortunately, it's not a perfect system, and some Bishops are better/more intuitive than others.

With respect to omegagal, I would argue that her experience is not the norm in the LDS Church. Unfortunately, any experience like hers is too many. I've known others that have gone through similar experiences, so I know it happens. But I also know of many, many more that have great experiences with their Bishops.

Sorry, omegagal - I hope you don't mind me providing a different perspective. I don't want to discount anything you've been through - it sounds awful. But I also don't think it would be fair to broad brush 13 million members, and probably 20,000 Bishops, based on one person's experience.

As I said earlier, my X "chose" his one bishop by Ward shopping. Funny that Bishop was soon released from that calling much earlier than the expected 6 years. Current Bishop is the wisest man I've ever met.... So my take on it, is that they are human.... ( :

I certainly haven't broad brushed anyone... but some people as I have said before would like to hide truth... it's not a good idea...

I do think that we do need to keep "on subject" though and only talk about how the "religious experience" and culture may have effected the disappearance of Susan as some people are taking honest talking personally.

 

[DomCasual]

Here's the actual report; http://people.hbs.edu/bedelman/papers/redlightstates.pdf

IMO, sexual urges are let out one way or another. Repression makes wanting all the more necessary. :twocents:



With all due respect it seems the LDS covers up a lot of stuff about Joseph Smith too. The LDS seems, IMO, to play down JS and focus more on Brigham Young.

I live a stones throw away from Palmyra where the Angel Moroni told Joseph Smith of the solid gold plates buried 1400 years ago under a rock on a nearby hillside. Moroni instructed Joseph to never show these plates to anyone and it was from these solid gold plates that he was able to write the Book of Mormon.

Every year they have the Hill Cumorah Pageant. I've never gone but I might in 2010. I think it would be interesting.

http://www.hillcumorah.org/Pageant/Program.aspx

Hey, I served my mission there. The areas I lived in were Webster, North Tonawanda, downtown Buffalo, Ithaca (my favorite), Sayre, PA, and Lockport. You should check out the Hill Cumorah pageant. It's quite a show - LDS, or not.

 

[gitana1]

Wow. I am learning a lot about the LDS church. I have never known anyone practicing the religion. From what you are saying through your experience, now I get a better insight about this case. Of course, there are controlling men everywhere and within every religion, but the catch here is the emphasis not only on male superiority in a marriage, but also on the wife to grin and bear whatever the husband does. I am sure I am so generalizing this, but I mean in relation to being counseled by church members, and seeking help/comfort within the church. Susan probably was counseled to do her best to stick it out, and JP was supported by church members to do what he was doing.
Don't shoot me everyone, I don't mean they would approve of murder! It's just different from how I was raised, and I'm trying to grasp LDS doctrine.:waitasec:

I know a lot of LDS. My brother married a girl from a practicing LDS family (she is no longer practicing and married in our Catholic church).
I find them by and large to be earnest, hardworking people whose main focus is family and who will go out of their way to help others. The LDS church is also remarkable in the lengths it goes to help its members through any rough time. The church saved my sister-in-law's family from ruin when she was young, during years in which they suffered serious economic problems. I often joke that if I found myself single, with kids and no means of supporting them, I would join the Mormons!
All joking aside, I have also found that there tends to be a cultural trend within the church that women are supposed to stay sweet, not complain, be somewhat submissive to their husbands and to try to keep the marriage together if it all possible. I can easily see that LDS women may be encouraged to work through domestic violence issues with church help instead of legal help and I think that's a mistake.

 

[omegagal]

DomCasual - okay now a couple of us are curious and I'll ask.. Who are you referring to here and what did they say because we missed it???? Please provide the post... thanks so much..

Sorry, omegagal - I hope you don't mind me providing a different perspective. I don't want to discount anything you've been through - it sounds awful. But I also don't think it would be fair to broad brush 13 million members, and probably 20,000 Bishops, based on one person's experience.

 

[SDkid]

First of all, I have the same feeling/knowledge of what has happened in the past i.e. Scott Peterson, Jason Young, Raven Abroah, Drew Peterson, Stebich, etc. The wife was gone. Yet, her personal belongings were left behind (purse, cell phone, etc.) The husband(s) had some weird alibi, they estranged themselves from their missing one's loved ones and did not cooperate with the authorities.

It's unfortunate that we know or feel that these women have met their fate at the hands of their husbands.

I have been wrong in assuming the best of people.

Anyways...I don't post alot, but I feel compelled to do some kind of duty to Susan's family and other missing people's and abused people's story alive.

May God Bless and May God Keep you, Websleuthers!

 

[gitana1]

My apologies. I posted about the LDS before reading the whole thread and thus did not notice that some were becoming uncomfortable with the discussion turning towards the religion of the family. For the record, I really do not think Susan or Josh's religion had anything to do with why Susan may have been killed by her husband. Many many women from all walks of life hide abuse for many reasons, namely because they feel ashamed they chose such a person. In any event, it does seem that Susan was speaking out to some degree about her marital problems so I doubt she was a wilting flower who lacked the ability to stand up for herself. JMO.

 

[gitana1]

First of all, I have the same feeling/knowledge of what has happened in the past i.e. Scott Peterson, Jason Young, Raven Abroah, Drew Peterson, Stebich, etc. The wife was gone. Yet, her personal belongings were left behind (purse, cell phone, etc.) The husband(s) had some weird alibi, they estranged themselves from their missing one's loved ones and did not cooperate with the authorities.

It's unfortunate that we know or feel that these women have met their fate at the hands of their husbands.

I have been wrong in assuming the best of people.

Anyways...I don't post alot, but I feel compelled to do some kind of duty to Susan's family and other missing people's and abused people's story alive.

May God Bless and May God Keep you, Websleuthers!

I hear ya'. Susan's family really touched my heart. I feel so bad for them and hope for a miracle for them. As a side note, watching the press conference, I felt sorry that the camera man focused so intensely on their faces whenever they cried. Those seemed to be such private moments and the focus seemed so intrusive.

 

[Melanie]

ISSUE videos are now uploading to You Tube and should be ready to view within the hour. Due to the hour, I won't be around to post them, just click on the link in my siggie to view the videos.

What a powerful video. When the interviewer asked Josh where he was camping, he shakes his head and said "I gotta go git my kids". Just like Judge Judy I said to myself "What do you think -- do I have STOOPID written on my forehead".?

I feel sorry for the BIL, in such denial, but you can tell he's holding out for hope -- you have to bless him during this holiday season. It's all so tragic. Susan should not be away from her babies during this time of year (not even knowing if they celebrate Christmas....do LDS's?

http://www.youtube.com/user/Sierra1947

Thanks,

Mel

 

[gitana1]

Does anyone want to make a guess as to a possible time for an arrest?