UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #6

[grayjay]

His whole story is so full of BS--- I could think of better alibi's without even trying.

For some reason this comment struck me today. It seems to me that JP wasn't in the least working on an alibi at any point in his efforts. It looks like he was just not planning for his absence to be noticed. The sign of a depressed man with other things on his mind.

 

[Fairy1]

BBM

I think it's important to consider that once they came home from "sledding", Susan was probably a bit peeved at Josh for being gone for 3 hours with the boys in the cold snow on a school night. But IMO her first actions would be to get the boys out of their wet clothes and ready for bed. Once she has them warmly tucked into their beds, Susan had some time to stew on her anger and lets Josh have it. Whatever happened to Susan that night, I'm sure we would have heard by now if the boys witnessed it -- so they had to have been in bed.

I'm wishing for the 1000th time that we had a layout of their home!

This is pretty much how I imagine it went down too. For those who are inclined to believe Josh's father was involved and if it was a heat of the moment situation, he probably would have called dear dad right after. "Hey, dad, I just killed Susan. What do I do now?" And if dad did suggest they meet halfway, there were probably additional calls between them until they met up. And I suppose then it wouldn't be likely that Susan is anywhere in Utah. :furious:

But there sure would be a record of those phone calls and there is a pretty clear window of time indicating when the calls would have started.

 

[grayjay]

...
This would also mean that 8:30 pm was the first opportunity JP really had to be alone w Susan
...

arrot:

I've been wondering if anyone has even considered that SP may have been pregnant. If so, a mild poisoning that wasn't supposed to kill her may have left him with no choice but to get rid of evidence. He would have been cleaning up for many hours when he arrived back home. He might not have had a lot of experience with cleaning, either, which is why he didn't know not to immerse his hands in cleaning chemicals for long periods of time, or that overworking the carpet will leave it way too wet. :waitasec:

 

[kiki the parrot]

From what TimP reports, I am convinced JP's hands were frostbitten--and IMO it was from prolonged exposure entailed in scenario described above.

I believe he was outdoors, either w/out wearing gloves or w WET gloves, for an extended length of time.

After further researching, I now know there are "Earth/Ice augers" which "convert into a powerful ice auger for year-round use - drills through snow and ice quickly!"

Omg any augers or similar tools missing from the shed?

Perhaps the sort used in installing playset (which TimP kindly constructed) for the children eg? :waitasec:

I shudder to think but the more I learn, I believe it highly likely JP had a tool to "get the job done." JMO

arrot:

 

[kiki the parrot]

"9 members, and 9 guests... "

Glad all our "guests" can join us today.

arrot:

 

[kiki the parrot]

Woops, our "guests" are leaving us...

...hope it wasn't anything I said... :blushing:

arrot:

 

[kiki the parrot]

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arrot:

 

[lemonmoussetart]

BBM

I think it's important to consider that once they came home from "sledding", Susan was probably a bit peeved at Josh for being gone for 3 hours with the boys in the cold snow on a school night. But IMO her first actions would be to get the boys out of their wet clothes and ready for bed. Once she has them warmly tucked into their beds, Susan had some time to stew on her anger and lets Josh have it. Whatever happened to Susan that night, I'm sure we would have heard by now if the boys witnessed it -- so they had to have been in bed.

I'm wishing for the 1000th time that we had a layout of their home!

I could not agree more. Susan never got the chance to confront Josh on not attending Church that day as Jovonna was there. Recently we found out that Josh, and Jovonna left at the same time. She could have been angry for him having the kids out so late, AND not going to Church. It's my feeling she would have waited until the kids were in bed. At ages 2 and 4 it would have been past their bedtime when they returned.

Susan was seriously contemplating divorce already--the irresponsibility with the kids that evening, combined with the lack of commitment toward church that day could have, indeed, left her stewing for 3 hours. Enough to prompt her to just say "that's it, I can't do this anymore." Josh's response would not have been complacent to say the least, as he made the rules around that house. Then when's and the how's are still up for speculation. But, I do believe that he was loading the van at 11:45 when the car alarm sounded. And that Susan was along for part of their journey.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Ok you all think I'm losing it, fixating on this chilling idea. But it's the sort of plan that might have given JP confidence she could never be found. Like I say, he may not have known exactly when he would put this into motion and it was poorly timed and discovered too quickly--but I fully believe he planned disposal method.

arrot:

 

[teacher 3]

I wonder if any of the neighbors know if he had an augur(sp) and maybe Peterson would know.

 

[lemonmoussetart]

Ok you all think I'm losing it, fixating on this chilling idea. But it's the sort of plan that might have given JP confidence she could never be found. Like I say, he may not have known exactly when he would put this into motion and it was poorly timed and discovered too quickly--but I fully believe he planned disposal method.

arrot:

That idea is chilling to be sure. Why do I think she was not dumped in water? While ice would be an impenatrable cover for now, it will melt. Also, I doubt he had an auger. Not to mention have you ever heard a generator? They are incredibly loud! Not only waking the boys, but alerting anyone in the vicinity. Where there are no trees to muffle the noise I can't imagine how far that noise would carry. I think it possible that Josh entertained of "never getting a divorce" one way or the other. Am still not convinced that he planned to kill her that night. Then again, that could have been the reason for the initial sledding trip---to wear the boys out so they wouldn't hear a thing.

 

[kiki the parrot]

That idea is chilling to be sure. Why do I think she was not dumped in water? While ice would be an impenatrable cover for now, it will melt. Also, I doubt he had an auger. Not to mention have you ever heard a generator? They are incredibly loud! Not only waking the boys, but alerting anyone in the vicinity. Where there are no trees to muffle the noise I can't imagine how far that noise would carry. I think it possible that Josh entertained of "never getting a divorce" one way or the other. Am still not convinced that he planned to kill her that night. Then again, that could have been the reason for the initial sledding trip---to wear the boys out so they wouldn't hear a thing.

(bbm) Actually not all of them are, especially the newer models--which his was ("testing out the new generator.") From what I'm learning, these newer "noiseless," "silent" models now boast "low vibration level!"

From what locals have said, there are plenty of places where there is little to no traffic, there are probably lakes which people seldom frequent that time of year... and if he didn't have a spot already in mind, I think he was willing to travel until he could be assured of and in fact counted on this. JMO

arrot:

 

[AlexisFresca]

Augers can be extremely loud; we've used them in the past. If the kids were with him disposing of her body, can't imagine they could tolerate that kind of noise. How would he explain it? Surely not something you use to make smores. That combined with the sound of the compressor. Not saying its impossible. Ice thickness would also depend on how long it would take, if this is indeed how he disposed of her body.

Could he have slipped his kids NyQuill to keep them alseep so's to keep the noise from waking them up?

 

[kiki the parrot]

He was, afterall, MIA for 20 hours the first time.......

...and another 17 hours or something the second....

...was not either trip ample time to locate some unpopulated access to a lake--in Utah, Idaho or somewhere else--on a frigid day in December?

arrot:

 

[nomad]

Ok you all think I'm losing it, fixating on this chilling idea. But it's the sort of plan that might have given JP confidence she could never be found. Like I say, he may not have known exactly when he would put this into motion and it was poorly timed and discovered too quickly--but I fully believe he planned disposal method.

arrot:

I'm thinking along the same lines too- a gas powered auger- seems more convenient, etc. vs. an electric one where one would need a generator, but it's a fact that JP brought a generator with him so maybe the generator was brought to use as an extra source of gasoline. Just auger away, the hole refreezes, and a terrible deed is hidden for a while longer.Theoretically speaking..
Makes me wonder if there was any gas leftover in the generator?

 

[AlexisFresca]

That is my theory. Probably took them sledding for 5 minutes. The rest of the time was driving around looking for a dump spot and talking to daddy dearest on the phone.

Is it presumed she was already dead at this time, or that he was waiting for her to die?

 

[lemonmoussetart]

Augers can be extremely loud; we've used them in the past. If the kids were with him disposing of her body, can't imagine they could tolerate that kind of noise. How would he explain it? Surely not something you use to make smores. That combined with the sound of the compressor. Not saying its impossible. Ice thickness would also depend on how long it would take, if this is indeed how he disposed of her body.

Could he have slipped his kids NyQuill to keep them alseep so's to keep the noise from waking them up?

Have also wondered if Josh didn't give the kids a little help sleeping. Although I would think Benedryl instead of NyQuil. Tastes better, and does the same. Have always wished they had drug tested the boys in that first day or two. I suppose there was no way to legally do it.

 

[kiki the parrot]

This is pretty much how I imagine it went down too. For those who are inclined to believe Josh's father was involved and if it was a heat of the moment situation, he probably would have called dear dad right after. "Hey, dad, I just killed Susan. What do I do now?" And if dad did suggest they meet halfway, there were probably additional calls between them until they met up. And I suppose then it wouldn't be likely that Susan is anywhere in Utah. :furious:

But there sure would be a record of those phone calls and there is a pretty clear window of time indicating when the calls would have started.

ITA w bold fairy, regardless of SP was in on a plan or whether there was any plan at all this would have been his first move IMO. If JP didn't think to do so himself tho I believe the first instructions from SP would've been to get off the traceable cells... and any further (or incriminating) discussion likely took place on disposable phones IMO.

arrot:

 

[kiki the parrot]

Both generator (which could have been used to increase power, or for another purpose) and power augers now have noise reduction features. If you are out in the middle of Timbucktoo (sp) that's not gonna be such an issue IMO. Surely in 20 hours one could find a lake somewhere that this wouldn't disturb others. WHY ELSE do people think Joshy provided himself w an alibi involving USING A GENERATOR in the first place??! :waitasec:

arrot:

 

[AlexisFresca]

Where would he have disposed of the generator and the auger? It has been stated he was surprised as how quickly the family was reported missing. Would he have been stupid enough to think he could go home, put the auger and generator back in the garage or wherever, to make them look undisturbed?

We have to consider the possibility that he may not have had a 'new' generator as he stated; he's been caught in other lies already, but it could be one they have had for several years now. I can't imagine buying a new generator and auger for the purpose of one time use and then pitching it. I can't imagine he bought them on the day she died or the next day; that would be too risky of someone recognizing him or ID-ing him where he purchased them. Maybe someone met him somewhere providing the auger and generator?

I can't imagine him returning home with it and LE not arresting him there with such compelling evidence. That or he ditched them somewhere on his way home, thus the two hour time span it took him to return home after someone finally getting through to him on his cell.