VA - Amy Bradley, 23, Petersburg, 24 March 1998 - #2 - ***READ FIRST POST***

[ChateauMarmont]

Yes this or something like this is the most likely thing. If the photos are her which I am not too sure of.

I posted that because I found it in a google cache. Who knows what it means , these guys are obviosley skilled at being disgusting humans , so I'd take everything posted on any of those forums with a grain of salt.

It may show there was an issue with the two , but again .. this group of guys is so shady , coming to an "answer" is going to be difficult from browsing those forums.

It's a very disturbing subculture that should not exist.

 

[dotr]

Just throwing some ideas out, if inappropriate, will remove.

Somehow the whole thing has an air of a grifting,staging, gaslighting on a large scale, complete with trained actors. The word "casting" came to mind as the one ironically? used at the brothel for when the men are choosing prostitutes.
They say that the women do not speak English and communicate with hand gestures, but I think they are either chosen specifically because they don't speak English, or the girls are told to pretend not to. P.B. seems to gloat about the clients wives not being aware of these dirty "golfing trips", but I wonder how many of these men unknowingly
may have set themselves up for blackmail by these women, who may in fact understand everything!
One of those agents, I mean hookers must know what happened to Amy.

The ship Amy was travelling on was only in business for one year - did it bite deeply into a rival business?

 

[Dushi]

Looked through Vanished again.

1. Although Tim B. did well to uncover the fraudulent investigator (though shouldn't it have been possible from the family to do background on him from the U.S.? ) I cannot emphasize enough how counterproductive it is to go swaggering through the streets of Curacao asking in English at a lad relaxing on the street saying "have you seen this person". Not everybody will believe he is a private investigator he could be anything from their point of view.

Look I understand her Mom's passionate hope and I see she is impressed that Tim B. can supposedly drop down on Curacao and say in English "ok where is the criminal element?" but that is the opposite of the right method IMO.

For a small amount of money say 50,00 a year max. they could have got someone who say is learning Papiementu (or knows it and is doing some other kind of research) to live there for a year or two, rent a room or live in a guesthouse go to bars (important people drink and tongues relax) someone who can move between the different communities there. It is important to be able to talk to people in Papiementu! Side-trips to Barbados (need English) , Venezuela (need Spanish of course) and Aruba easy to do from there though flights inter-Caribbean not cheap.

Not too late. If money by now is an issue if you can find someone already there on that basis you might be able to persuade them to do it for free or close to free.

2. I take note of Amy's disinclination to go on the trip and in one photo at the beginning of the trip she looks troubled and unhappy IMO. Is it really only because of the scary railings? She does look quite happy and untroubled in some of the later photos. (Forget the notion that any of us know everything in the hearts minds and lives of our children).

3. It is interesting that she did not sleep at all the father simply found her relaxing on the balcony was it common for her to go sleepless I assume she was planning to go into town that day?

4. I think it is necessary to depathologize the idea of alcohol and drugs I know I said this before but want to emphasize. I really think the video of the videographer needs to be looked at again and again including by people here on WS. What do you see?
5. Y's words to the brother in the morning. Yes, interesting but I do not think it likely that only security and the captain would have known about Amy's disappearance at that point. It is odd that he is not asking how he can help but he could already have been ordered to keep things quiet. Actually to say "sorry to hear about your sister" suggests that he thinks she is dead i.e. that he might have been told and believed the "over the rail" theory.

I am brand new to this thread , of course i am somewhat familiar with this young lady's disappearance.

When i watch the video, I see a young woman dancing, enjoying herself.

 

[ChateauMarmont]

Just throwing some ideas out, if inappropriate, will remove.
Also, just wanted to be clear (pun intended) after reading that the Scientologists asked about candy- I posted a similar question earlier, but only as a way to potentially help identify Amy!


Somehow the whole thing has an air of a grifting,staging, gaslighting on a large scale, complete with trained actors. The word "casting" came to mind as the one ironically? used at the brothel for when the men are choosing prostitutes.
They say that the women do not speak English and communicate with hand gestures, but I think they are either chosen specifically because they don't speak English, or the girls are told to pretend not to. P.B. seems to gloat about the clients wives not being aware of these dirty "golfing trips", but I wonder how many of these men unknowingly
may have set themselves up for blackmail by these women, who may in fact understand everything!
One of those agents, I mean hookers must know what happened to Amy.

The ship Amy was travelling on was only in business for one year - did it bite deeply into a rival business?

Scientology is something I know nothing about. It's one of the few things that I've never researched and honestly don't care to.

But , if possible -- can someone give me a VERY BRIEF synopsis of what "Scientology" is , and the "criticisms" of it ?

I only hear Scientology when I watch the news and they talk about Tom Cruise. I have an understanding some people feel its a cult/scam ?

Not sure , and most info online is very long --

Is PB a member of this "church/religon/belief system" ?

 

[typically-a-reader]

The Bradleys haven't received photos from other people.

The Bradleys don't have surveillance tapes. They are gone. The surveillance tapes would be more valuable than the personal photos.

excuse my hijacking: there may be hidden or previously unnoticed clues in the background of the pictures taken by other passengers. You never know, obviously, stranger things have happened.

 

[Cltguy49]

Scientology is something I know nothing about. It's one of the few things that I've never researched and honestly don't care to.

But , if possible -- can someone give me a VERY BRIEF synopsis of what "Scientology" is , and the "criticisms" of it ?

I only hear Scientology when I watch the news and they talk about Tom Cruise. I have an understanding some people feel its a cult/scam ?

Not sure , and most info online is very long --

Is PB a member of this "church/religon/belief system" ?

From Wikipedia:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
Scientology is defined as a set of beliefs written by founder L. Ron Hubbard. Scientology describes itself as the study and handling of the spirit in relationship to itself, others, and all of life. One purpose of Scientology, as stated by the Church of Scientology, is to become certain of one's spiritual existence and one's relationship to God, or the "Supreme Being."[1] One belief of Scientology is that a human is an immortal alien, i.e. extraterrestrial, spiritual being, termed a thetan, that is trapped on Earth in a physical body. Hubbard described these "thetans" in a "Space Opera" cosmogony. The thetan has had innumerable past lives and it is accepted in Scientology that lives preceding the thetan's arrival on Earth lived in extraterrestrial cultures. Descriptions of these space opera incidents are seen as true events by Scientologists.[2]

Scientologists believe that an individual should discover for himself/herself that Scientology works by personally applying its principles and observing or experiencing desirable results. Scientology claims that its practices provide methods by which a person can achieve greater spiritual awareness.[3] Two primary methods of increasing spiritual awareness are referred to in Scientology as "Auditing" and "Training".[citation needed] Within Scientology, progression from level to level is often called The Bridge to Total Freedom. Scientologists progress from "Preclear", to "Clear", and ultimately "Operating Thetan".

Scientologists are taught that a series of events, or incidents, occurred before life on earth.[4] Scientologists also believe that humans have hidden abilities which can be unlocked.[5][6]



There is no connection with Scientology and the disappearance of Amy, that path has been travelled down and has been completely discredited. The only connection was that Scientologists visited the Bradleys in their stateroom, made some rather unkind remarks and were essentially asked to leave. Going down this path and falling overboard are really a waste of time.

I did a quick google search and Paul Baxter doesn't appear to be connected with Scientology

 

[Cltguy49]

excuse my hijacking: there may be hidden or previously unnoticed clues in the background of the pictures taken by other passengers. You never know, obviously, stranger things have happened.

I suggested that to FA yesterday and she is going to discuss that with the Bradleys and see if there is a way to reach out to people who were on the cruise and suggest they send pictures. That will be a daunting task but I agree, you never know what can appear in a photo that someone took.

 

[dotr]

Scientology is something I know nothing about. It's one of the few things that I've never researched and honestly don't care to.

But , if possible -- can someone give me a VERY BRIEF synopsis of what "Scientology" is , and the "criticisms" of it ?

I only hear Scientology when I watch the news and they talk about Tom Cruise. I have an understanding some people feel its a cult/scam ?

Not sure , and most info online is very long --

Is PB a member of this "church/religon/belief system" ?

Sorry, I did not want to go there, (it was brought up in an earlier post and has nothing at all to do with the case) I only mentioned it because I had asked about candy or food and was trying to say that I only wanted to know because if someone spotted Amy or someone with her buying certain items, it might help find identify Amy.I regret my "joke" having said that welcome to the thread!

 

[elepher50]

Zaglanitis and BCIT:

I cannot find (yet) any connection between Zaglanitis and BCIT. Here is a link for bios of all instructors at BCIT and the Wayback Machine goes back to 2004 only.

http://www.bcit.ca/facultystaff/bios/

Wayback Machine: http://archive.org/web/web.php

Just pop that bcit.ca link into the Wayback Machine and there is no reference to Zaglantis.

BCIT did merge with a couple of other schools so they need to be checked out as well.

Still coming up empty on a link between Zaglantis and BCIT so far.

Here's the challenge: If anybody can come up with a link between Zaglantis and BCIT I will nominate you for the "sleuther" of the day on Amy's thread.

ETA: Please refer to this post with info regarding Zaglantis and BCIT:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8335094&postcount=455"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - SPOTLIGHT CASE VA - Amy Bradley, 23, Petersburg, 24 March 1998, #2 ***READ FIRST POST***[/ame]


ETA2: WS is acting stoopid with the links right now - sorry about that - it is post 455 in this thread in case the link gets messed up again.

 

[JaimeSommers]

It's baffling to me that people still bring up the "overboard" thing.

We have been told more than once by the WS thread moderators to stop with the overboard theories and move on with the discussion.

(CM, not directing this at you; rather, reinforcing the point you were making.)

 

[elepher50]

WS moderators and WS co-owner will not entertain discussion of overboard theories or suggestions of same on Amy's thread. And they probably have good reasons that cannot be shared with us.

 

[pdxmama]

Ok FindAmy, I understand. The only thing I'm confused about is the dancing. She totally looked like she had an inhibitor. She & Alister were the closest together on the dance floor. The way he was behind her it didn't look very innocent. IMO its totally opposite of anything I've found on Amy prior to the cruise. Could she have been slipped something & the full effect was delayed? I don't know, so I'm asking.

So she was on her balcony just say 3:35-5:30am. What would have made her get up & go get coffee? Doesn't make sense to me, she'd want to sleep...unless she was already given something to keep her awake as well. What time was she up that morning prior to dancing? After drinking & dancing, surely she'd be tired & sweaty. Why get coffee? Why not a shower or bath? Idk, trying to work through it I guess...

I'm pretty far behind and trying to catch up but I wanted to comment on this. I agree that she doesn't look completely sober on the video of her dancing. There is even one point when she is waiting for the elevator that it almost looks like she falls or stumbles into the wall, bumping into it.

I also have to say that, while I know people stay up and party on vacation, do they typically not sleep AT ALL? She was out late, up with her brother at 3:30am and on a search for coffee by 5:30am? Just seems a little unusual. Of course, everything about this case is unusual.

 

[nannymo]

I picked up on the Jazmin reference, too, Eleph. When was the video made, and are there others?

FWIW-I too noticed the reference to Jazmine. Earlier this week i was looking at pictures on the waybackmachine from one of these posts earlier. My heart dropped when I found a referenced picture of Jasmine but the picture would not load! I tried several times, thinking OMG this is going to be Amy! But when it FINALLY loaded, it was a picture of a dark-skinned carribean looking female. I would imagine Jasmine is a fairly popular "name" for some of these girls.

I watched the video the other morning before work. Thanks Elpher for loading the english version...all I got out of the spanish version was the girlfriend coming to the airport was named Jennifer!

I can see possibly a PI finding one of these girls from this video, (who was the girl trying to make money to send her mother to the hospital?) offering her some sort of sanction for her family in the US if she could supply them with pertinent verifiable information about the comings and goings of these people and possible sightings of where Amy might be.

Just my musings here. Reading a lot, but don't post much. I do appreciate reading all the things everyone has to offer on this case. I really can't get this case off my mind. Wish I knew enough to help you.

 

[arielilane]

As one other poster already noted the pictures were removed so that once Amy's family knew she had been taken, there would be a delay in being able to show a recent photo around Curacao.

To add to this: They would not have a photo to show around the cruise ship as well.

:twocents: In addition to that:
It is my opinion that the purpose of the photo is being used by the captors to reminder Amy of the harm they will bring to her family if she attempts to escape. I can't imagine the horror they have put Amy Bradley through, with the threats of harming her family. I don't speak for Amy, but the threats to harm her family is most likely the only reason she has not left to find her way back home. jmo

I'm sure Amy Bradley is not there of her free will. She is being threatened, and more importantly, to her (again not speaking for Amy), her family is being threatened. This is my thoughts only. Common sense

:twocents: It is also my opinion that the photo was used to know what the Bradleys look like in order to make the visit to VA. In addition, to make any foreseeable visits.

We have to find her and we will.

Lastly, its great there is the video. It's evidence. Reflects one of the last known persons with Amy Bradley, and it's the last known recording of Amy.

 

[pdxmama]

If someone has it handy, could you re-post the video of Amy dancing with Yellow? I've tried to find it but I'm distracted by small children and it's taking me forever.

 

[pdxmama]

I'm pretty far behind and trying to catch up but I wanted to comment on this. I agree that she doesn't look completely sober on the video of her dancing. There is even one point when she is waiting for the elevator that it almost looks like she falls or stumbles into the wall, bumping into it.

I also have to say that, while I know people stay up and party on vacation, do they typically not sleep AT ALL? She was out late, up with her brother at 3:30am and on a search for coffee by 5:30am? Just seems a little unusual. Of course, everything about this case is unusual.

OK, I'm caught up and see that this was discussed many times. Sorry for being redundant. I really do question Amy's sobriety in that video and would really appreciate the opinions of others. I know at least one other person said it looked like she bumped into the wall near the elevator.

 

[JaimeSommers]

If someone has it handy, could you re-post the video of Amy dancing with Yellow? I've tried to find it but I'm distracted by small children and it's taking me forever.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183570"]Media/Timeline VA - Amy Bradley, NO DISCUSSION **READ FIRST POST** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Go to post #35.

 

[pdxmama]

Media/Timeline VA - Amy Bradley, NO DISCUSSION **READ FIRST POST** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Go to post #35.

Thank you! After watching it a second time, I didn't see her stumbling and bumping into the wall like I thought I had. It was just her turning around while dancing and then probably leaning over to push the elevator button again. What really bothered me this time around was her dancing with Yellow. The way she was holding his hand just looked so familiar and intimate. I know that they did not have any kind of romantic relationship but the way they looked together definitely seemed to portray a certain amount of trust. It makes me so sad to think that this young woman was just having fun, met someone that she liked and that she thought was a good guy and then she ended up in such a horrible situation.

Thanks everyone for working so hard for Amy. She deserves to have her life back.

 

[nannymo]

Thank you! After watching it a second time, I didn't see her stumbling and bumping into the wall like I thought I had. It was just her turning around while dancing and then probably leaning over to push the elevator button again. What really bothered me this time around was her dancing with Yellow. The way she was holding his hand just looked so familiar and intimate. I know that they did not have any kind of romantic relationship but the way they looked together definitely seemed to portray a certain amount of trust. It makes me so sad to think that this young woman was just having fun, met someone that she liked and that she thought was a good guy and then she ended up in such a horrible situation.

Thanks everyone for working so hard for Amy. She deserves to have her life back.

Here is what I see when I watched it the second time. It really doesn't differ much from my first opinion.

1. The first dance scene with Yellow looks very innocent. She is moving a little funny, but watch her...she is watching his feet. Makes me wonder if she was trying to imitate a dance step or something from him.

2. The scene at the elevator...she is dancing the "electric slide". I have danced it MANY times to that song. It's a very fun line dance. There is a "grapevine" to the right, "grapevine to the left, step back a couple of times, then a "Dip" downward. That is when she looks like she bumps the elevator to me. Then a couple of turns to right and back to left. She is definately dancing the electric slide. I don't see her as drunk or drugged.

3. The close dancing with Yellow in the next sequence reminds me of a girl who is having fun with someone who "may" be getting a little too touchy feely and she has a hold of his hand to keep it in the right place...KWIM!! She is setting the boundaries with him to show she doesn't want it to go any further than it already has.

I may have this all wrong, but I don't see anything but a girl having a good time.

 

[nannymo]

Here is a link to a youtube video of the electric slide. See what you think. Hope it works.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnrbKkwPBsE"]Electric Slide on Pigeon Point Beach - YouTube[/ame]