VA - Amy Bradley, 23, Petersburg, 24 March 1998 - #3

[Deleted member 96356]

Hello all,

I've been away due but am glad to see that WSers are keeping this topic alive! This case stays with me and it's heartening to know that Amy is not forgotten.

Anyway: regarding the sketch artist drawings, the red-haired man appears to have a lazy eye. Does anyone else see that? I should think that would be distinctive regardless of whether he loses weight or changes his beard, etc. Would the person who sighted them be able to distinguish a Canadian accent versus American? I'm not talking about a regional "hoser" accent, I mean someone from a large metropolitan area such as Toronto or Vancouver. The reason I ask is that a lot of human trafficking into Cali is funneled here from across the border. I don't know if that's because Vancouver's port security is more lax than San Fran or L.A. or if it's due to having organized contacts.

Amy's mother said that she believes it is gun trafficking with possible human trafficking. Well, here's where a clean cut "all-American" woman would come in handy: the human trafficking trade into US and Canada. People (primarily women but not all) are offered jobs that seem very glamorous and lucrative. Then they arrive and find out they are not hostesses in a famous nightclub or whatever. They are forced to work in massage shops (not the reputable kind), house slaves, manual labor, etc. (Yes, we have (illegal) house slaves in the Bay area. This is not the shining beacon of progress its made out to be.) The thing is, you need recruiters for this, and if you're lying about it being a great job in North America it's helpful to have an actual American to make it look real. I still don't know why they would take Amy as opposed to someone more vulnerable (not traveling with family, for starters). But it's just one possibility that comes to mind. Just trying to look at all the angles and not get tunnel vision.

It also occurs to me that they were wearing those weird get-ups in San Fran so they would be recognizable to someone they had to meet. "I'll be the one with the red rose in my lapel." They may have thought that tacky tourist get-ups would make them look like just more people fresh off the cruise boats to the public, but a signal to whoever they were meeting. Because if they weren't there to meet someone or do a hand-off, why be there at all?

How did the witness know they were foreign coins being tossed to the buskers? Was she able to give enough of a description that the FBi would know which country the coins belonged to?

Perhaps I'm in the minority but when Amy was dancing with Yellow she looked like she was "on" something. Could Amy have been a recreational drug user? And let me put this in all caps: I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT IMPUGNS HER CHARACTER IN ANY WAY. Lots of people like to party. That doesn't give anyone else the right to kidnap them, kill them, rape them, or whatever else. Absolutely NO right.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to get these thoughts out there before I forget.

P.S. As for Amy falling overboard... not impossible (although those railings make it hard to just fall). If she was afraid of the ocean then all her swim training could have been for naught if panic set in. Also, isn't there an undertow with those large ships? But then why would the FBI and Interpol keep an active investigation going.... *sigh*

 

[Deleted member 96356]

double post, sorry!

 

[Simply Caustic]

The one thing I find odd, is that Amy's shoes remained in her room/balcony (can't recall which) after she went missing.
That's partially what makes me think that Yellow - or another person - could have tried to initiate sex with her (sighting in elevator), and when she declined, he attacked her/pushed overboard/strangled/placed in a bin to carry offshore.

In order for that to work, however, the walking away without shoes needs to be explained. That, to me, suggests she didn't willingly go in the elevator.

I just think, even if she didn't fall overboard/pushed...regardless, yellow knows something. JMO. I hope his religious conversion was sincere, and that he will confess everything he knows. Mini matter how little information he had, it might help.

Via Kindle, like a true Amazon junkie

 

[Kristin83]

Perhaps she thought she'd only be gone a few minutes at a short distance to get a cup of coffee or something? Did the witnesses who saw her with Yellow that morning notice if she was wearing shoes?

 

[neesaki]

FWIW, the issue of Amy wearing shoes or not has never, to my knowledge, actually been determined. Initially her mother stated she didn't know because Amy had brought so many pair of shoes, ten pair at least, so she couldn't be sure which ones she was wearing when she disappeared. Then at some point, it became, she wasn't wearing shoes at all. But seriously, how could any one person know what anyone else had brought to wear on their feet ? Her mother had actually taken an inventory of Amy's shoes before she disappeared ? I find that hard to believe, jmo.

I also find it hard to believe anyone would leave their cabin without something on their feet. On a cruise ship ? All that bacteria on the floor?.... just think athletes foot, sticky junk on the floor, etc.... :notgood:
No, I just can't believe that anyone can be sure that Amy was bare foot that night unless they actually witnessed her with no shoes on immediately before she disappeared. JMO :moo:

 

[Murkywaters]

Amy's mother said that she believes it is gun trafficking with possible human trafficking. Well, here's where a clean cut "all-American" woman would come in handy: the human trafficking trade into US and Canada. People (primarily women but not all) are offered jobs that seem very glamorous and lucrative. Then they arrive and find out they are not hostesses in a famous nightclub or whatever. They are forced to work in massage shops (not the reputable kind), house slaves, manual labor, etc. (Yes, we have (illegal) house slaves in the Bay area. This is not the shining beacon of progress its made out to be.) The thing is, you need recruiters for this, and if you're lying about it being a great job in North America it's helpful to have an actual American to make it look real. I still don't know why they would take Amy as opposed to someone more vulnerable (not traveling with family, for starters). But it's just one possibility that comes to mind. Just trying to look at all the angles and not get tunnel vision.

It also occurs to me that they were wearing those weird get-ups in San Fran so they would be recognizable to someone they had to meet. "I'll be the one with the red rose in my lapel." They may have thought that tacky tourist get-ups would make them look like just more people fresh off the cruise boats to the public, but a signal to whoever they were meeting. Because if they weren't there to meet someone or do a hand-off, why be there at all?

I find it interesting Iva said it could be gun trafficking, After all even though that is very illegal, FindAmy seemed to suggest what she is doing is EXTREMELY allusive and secretive. She/he did say Amy is being used as a mule, of course when he said that i automatically thought of drugs. However, apparently it isn't. Also when Iva said she could be used for guns and human trafficking? what type of human trafficking did she have in mind? After all there is a lot out there. Also about the recruiters, I definitely believe there were in fact human traffickers on board the ship. Even though it is believed Alister Douglas was employed to be involved in the kidnapping, He obviously didn't do it alone. FindAmy did talk about how several men were very close and affectionate to her, wanting to take her out on dates ect. One in Aruba, (that was probably where the kidnapping was supposed to take place) Also there was a man who Iva saw watching Amy. At one point, she responded to him. It made her very uncomfortable and she mentioned it to those who were with her. FA believes he is the one that chose Amy.

Also good thinking, at inferring perhaps there elaborate choice of shirts could have been a tool they used for someone to meet them. That is probably their motive for the matching Hawaiian shirts.

 

[Deleted member 96356]

It occurs to me now that Amy's mother could have said weapons trafficking rather than gun trafficking. But those are pretty much the same thing. It's interesting (to me) that she thought it could be a blend of two, guns and humans. IMO it sounds pretty organized to have multiple "branches" of trafficking. But then we have to consider that if the family and LE are withholding info to keep Amy safe then her mom could be misdirecting with that comment. Why let the people who have Amy know that you're on to them? Hmmmm.

Regarding the shoes, I'm not convinced that Amy's family had all of her shoes accounted for. I'm not criticizing them. But when you're on vacation it's common to buy flip flops and sandals at those tourist shops. Maybe Amy was wearing something cheap she picked up en route. Can't imagine anyone going barefoot through the common areas of a ship. YUCK!!! Unless she was out of it and feeling the effects of something and wandered off barefoot. That's why I wonder if Amy was partying a bit on that vacation and Yellow could offer her substances. And once again, that is in no way condemning her or her character. Maybe that's why the men were taking such an interest? They realized they'd found someone with a vulnerability they could exploit.

I, too, wonder if the witness who saw her with Yellow at the elevator noticed shoes. It might not have been something she would have paid attention to at the time.

 

[dyannaON]

Hi please forgive me for being off topic
I'm somewhat a new registered WS member. Long time lurker. What exactly is the parking lot? TIA


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[Wondergirl]

Hi please forgive me for being off topic
I'm somewhat a new registered WS member. Long time lurker. What exactly is the parking lot? TIA


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Where you are.

Also known as the basement or downstairs, the parking lot is a members only discussion forum.

No guests or visitors can find it. I don't *think* it is viewable in google cache either.

You MUST be registered to find this thread here in the Parking Lot. More sensitive discussions take place here. There is usually a very good reason for a thread to be here.

Hth

 

[danzn16]

What benefit would there be to have a well known kidnapped victim for weapons trafficking though?


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[neesaki]

What benefit would there be to have a well known kidnapped victim for weapons trafficking though?


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That's a good question.

 

[Murkywaters]

What benefit would there be to have a well known kidnapped victim for weapons trafficking though?


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Lots of money for the traffickers? I'm sure they didn't know that Amy Bradley would soon become an international missing person, after all they kidnapped her from a cruise ship and ''the fallen overboard'' scenario would've have likely been a good excuse for her vanishing. Also keep in mind we do not know if Amy is trafficking weapons, after all it is not disclosed what she is carrying, we only know that it is illegal and extremely profitable.

After communicating with FindAmy on Reddit, I asked about the last disclosed sighting of Amy that really isn't discussed that much. The Salinja club sighting in Curacao in November, 2005, eight months after the Barbados one. FindAmy believes it was probably real, however but it has never been verified. There was reports that Amy was often seen in a small club with ''underworld'' types of people. The club was checked for the Bradleys by their sources in Curacao. There were unconfirmed reports that the owners of the Stelaris Hotel had also been operating the club in Salinja. By this point in time many years had passed, the club had changed hands, and Amy was long gone. The original source would not come forward with additional information.

Here's a picture of it.

The club is over an auto parts store and a car wash. It's a very strange location.

 

[neesaki]

Just thought I'd post this as a review of the confirmed sightings:

August, 1998 - Porto Marie Beach, Curacao : Amy was seen here by two Canadian divers, she was with two "handlers". The Canadians did not report the sighting of Amy until they were back in Canada. Alister Douglas was identified as one of the handlers, the other was described as a blonde European type with a ponytail. Their information was verified by the FBI and they presented the information to a Federal Grand Jury. David Carmichael, the diver who testified for the Federal Grand Jury, said that Amy and two men were walking toward him on the beach. As he and his dive partner were collecting their equipment Amy started moving toward him as if to speak. The man later identified as Alister Douglas, quickly stepped between Amy and Carmichael and warned Carmichael with a menacing look. Carmichael and his partner went to the outdoor bar a few minutes later where they sat very close to Amy and her handlers. He was able to get a very good look at Amy down to being able to describe her tattoos and the silver watch she had been given by her boyfriend.


January, 1999 - Stelaris Hotel, Willemstad, Caracao : Chief Petty Officer William Hefner from the US Chandler went into the Stelaris Hotel which is located across the street from the old cruise ship docks. Hefner was sitting in the bar area and noticed two women sitting together at a table. One woman was Caucasian and the other appeared to be Hispanic. The Caucasian woman walked over to him and told him that her name was Amy Bradley and she needed help. Hefner did not recognize that she was a missing person, but he did recognize that she was an American. He told her to go to the ship that was docked five minutes away. Amy made another attempt to tell him that he didn't understand, her name was Amy Bradley and she needed help. Two men then approached Amy and sent her upstairs. Hefner did not immediately report that he had seen Amy in the hotel because the Stelaris was off limits to military personnel and as a naval officer he was not supposed to be there. He was also a married man. He didn't realize until later who she was when he saw her photograph on the cover of the July, 2001 People Magazine.


April 18, 2003 - Pier 39, Fisherman's Wharf, San Francisco: Witnesses reported seeing Amy here with two "handlers" as they were watching a musician on the pier near the ticket area for Alcatraz. Amy and her two handlers were listening to the street musician. At one point, one of her handlers gave her foreign coins to drop into the musician's case. When Amy’s handlers realized that she had been recognized, they grabbed her and ran. As the handlers dragged her away, Amy stared pleadingly over her shoulder at the people who had identified her. At one point, Amy stumbled and fell to the ground. Amy was described as wearing a nautical trimmed jacket, the handlers were wearing matching Hawaiian shirts and cheap sunglasses. The handlers were identified as Americans, and described in detail by the witnesses. Two artist sketches were completed from this sighting by the FBI artist from Quantico, Virginia. According to the witnesses, the FBI sketches are like photographs.


March 1, 2005 - Bridgetown, Barbados. There were actually three sightings of Amy that day, according to witnesses she was with four "handlers": They were seen standing in the cash register line at the Del Sol store on Broad Street , they were seen in a department store restroom, and they were seen walking on the sidewalk a block away from Broad Street. The witnesses described Amy as walking with four men completely surrounding her. In the department store restroom sighting, the witness, Judy, hid in fright when she heard a man bursting into the restroom, she then overheard him discussing some sort of “deal” , and Amy asking something about "seeing the children". After the man left the restroom, Amy seemed frightened, but cautiously approached the witness and stated she was Amy from Virginia. Judy has cooperated with the FBI and sketches were completed of Amy and her handlers.

 

[Deleted member 96356]

What benefit would there be to have a well known kidnapped victim for weapons trafficking though?
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I know. Why keep her alive once there is an int'l investigation with media coverage? Seems she'd be too much trouble. Unless she's a bartering chip.

FindAmy says it's simple. Okay. Green eyes? They're not easy to find.

 

[marie-chantal]

What benefit would there be to have a well known kidnapped victim for weapons trafficking though?


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This is what I struggle to understand as well. Those who traffic in weapons most likely do not give a toss if the person they buy them from is famous. It's not like someone buying a dress because they saw a celeb wearing it.

I also have a difficult time understanding/believing the San Francisco sighting. Even if Americans are involved, the risks of smuggling a well-known kidnapping victim back into her home country are insanely high; especially to bring her to a highly populated tourist area where LE is heavy at all times. I know that the FBI has allegedly deemed this credible, but I still find it hard to believe. I don't know what kind of nefarious activity would require that spot as a business location. It was not reported that anybody followed them once they ran off. If you spot a high-profile kidnapping victim and they run from you, wouldn't you follow them for as long as you could in order to help the police before they arrive? The police would need to know which direction they went. Following them from a safe distance would help LE if they haven't arrived to the scene yet. I know I certainly would. I think those who spotted her cared about her, which is why they made it obvious that they recognized Amy. Why didn't someone try to follow from a distance?

Cruise ships do not dock in this area in great numbers, so the "tourist on a cruise ship" look is not something that would typically be seen in SF. LA or Long Beach, yes, but not SF.

The sightings in the Caribbean are far more credible to me than SF.

Who owned the Hotel Stelaris and the club in Salinja? Was it someone who has ties to AAV or the resorts that host AAV travelers? What was Amy doing in the club in 2005? Was she just sitting there like any customer, or was she working there?

 

[Dushi]

This is what I struggle to understand as well. Those who traffic in weapons most likely do not give a toss if the person they buy them from is famous. It's not like someone buying a dress because they saw a celeb wearing it.

I also have a difficult time understanding/believing the San Francisco sighting. Even if Americans are involved, the risks of smuggling a well-known kidnapping victim back into her home country are insanely high; especially to bring her to a highly populated tourist area where LE is heavy at all times. I know that the FBI has allegedly deemed this credible, but I still find it hard to believe. I don't know what kind of nefarious activity would require that spot as a business location. It was not reported that anybody followed them once they ran off. If you spot a high-profile kidnapping victim and they run from you, wouldn't you follow them for as long as you could in order to help the police before they arrive? The police would need to know which direction they went. Following them from a safe distance would help LE if they haven't arrived to the scene yet. I know I certainly would. I think those who spotted her cared about her, which is why they made it obvious that they recognized Amy. Why didn't someone try to follow from a distance?

Cruise ships do not dock in this area in great numbers, so the "tourist on a cruise ship" look is not something that would typically be seen in SF. LA or Long Beach, yes, but not SF.

The sightings in the Caribbean are far more credible to me than SF.

Who owned the Hotel Stelaris and the club in Salinja? Was it someone who has ties to AAV or the resorts that host AAV travelers? What was Amy doing in the club in 2005? Was she just sitting there like any customer, or was she working there?

The men who were with her "sent her upstairs"
It sounds like they were staying there

 

[marie-chantal]

The men who were with her "sent her upstairs"
It sounds like they were staying there

Wasn't the club upstairs?

 

[Dushi]

Wasn't the club upstairs?

In Post # 473, it said the witness was sitting in the bar area and the woman was sent upstairs
Sounds like the bar was downstairs



Post # 473. snipped

January, 1999 - Stelaris Hotel, Willemstad, Caracao : Chief Petty Officer William Hefner from the US Chandler went into the Stelaris Hotel which is located across the street from the old cruise ship docks. Hefner was sitting in the bar area and noticed two women sitting together at a table. One woman was Caucasian and the other appeared to be Hispanic. The Caucasian woman walked over to him and told him that her name was Amy Bradley and she needed help. Hefner did not recognize that she was a missing person, but he did recognize that she was an American. He told her to go to the ship that was docked five minutes away. Amy made another attempt to tell him that he didn't understand, her name was Amy Bradley and she needed help. Two men then approached Amy and sent her upstairs. Hefner did not immediately report that he had seen Amy in the hotel because the Stelaris was off limits to military personnel and as a naval officer he was not supposed to be there. He was also a married man. He didn't realize until later who she was when he saw her photograph on the cover of the July, 2001 People Magazine.

 

[masootz]

since i'm getting nowhere with trying to separate fact from fiction -

if we are to believe "yellow" was sighted giving her a coffee and that coffee was laced with something (there's no evidence of that whatsoever but hey why not), then he had to know she was planning to meet with him (unless someone wants to theorize that he carried laced coffee around with him just in case). if she didn't mention the meeting to her brother while they were talking on the balcony an hour earlier then any theories why she was having a secretive meeting with "yellow"?

 

[masootz]

another one - if we are to believe the details of the various sightings then one of the following theories which has been suggested many times is false - 1) that she had some version of stockholm syndrome (wherein the captive relates to the captors and doesn't try to escape), 2) that she made attempts to tell people who she was, and was thus guarded heavily in order to prevent her escape.

both can't be true.