VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #4

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PAXIMUS said:
It appears Debra has parents alive as we have reports of a relative taking issue of the discussuion about the place being a slaughterhouse, we discussed this previously a few pages back and he said such talk was upsetting to what I assume were Debra's parents.
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Ah yes, I recall. So, parents get it if Debra didn't have a will.
 
Thanks again to all of you who transcribed Sam's music I know it wasnt easy listening but you did a great job and now we have a nice record of his words to refer to during trial when these matters arise.
 
PAXIMUS said:
It appears Debra has parents alive as we have reports of a relative taking issue of the discussuion about the place being a slaughterhouse, we discussed this previously a few pages back and he said such talk was upsetting to what I assume were Debra's parents. So that does bring up the interesting question as to who takes ownership of the house assuming Debra had no will and it is likely she didnt at her age, she was sort of young to be thinking about such matters.
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The laws of intestacy dictate that it goes to the parents. First to the spouse, then to the kids, then to the parents, then to the siblings. Spouse and kids are dead. Therefore, parents.
 
AndresEscobar said:
The laws of intestacy dictate that it goes to the parents. First to the spouse, then to the kids, then to the parents, then to the siblings. Spouse and kids are dead. Therefore, parents.
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That seems to be the general consenus for most states although some are different I would assume you are correct and that is likely how VA does it. I am sure the parents will not want anything to do with that house and as someone who has worked in RE over the years it will be interesting to see how far BELOW market value that house sells for when it does, someone may be in for a real deal as unfortunate as it all is.
 
I am interested in the book, but I hope that you will think of it's possible use as a manual for copycat killers.

Maybe putting focus on the victims would be more interesting and better for society in the long term. I would love to learn more about them. I wonder if Deborah and her daughter might have been using SKR for homeschooling homework assignments, and that's how they came to be attending the SFTW concert together.

I wonder if the copycat phenomenon is why we are experiencing a almost total silence from the mainstream media about this story right now. In The Gift of Fear, he recommends that the media should portray them as weak, pitiful losers, to deter other bent minds from trying to gain glory through killing.
 
PAXIMUS said:
Thanks Zigster and sorry to hear about your concert that stinks. I am catching up myself and just saw Peace Gurl's comment about FLOOR REMOVAL and now I am wondering what sort of flooring we are talking about, was it a WOOD/COMPOSITE/FAUX WOOD FLOORING or CARPET since surely one wouldnt have to remove tile because of stains, so I would guess carpet first or some sort of older style wood floor that wasnt sealed properly due to wear and the wood stained from the blood. This all of course lends credence to our theory and early reports that the place was a slaughterhouse in spite of the fact that we had a relative earlier saying these reports were false.

I do believe Rimer was this last Saturday (yesterday) so maybe Peace Gurl had a chance to attend or not?
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I was told that they had to take out wood flooring.

I am sorry to say that I was unable to attend Rimer's presentation. A friend s grandmother passed so I had to attend a funeral. I will be very interested to learn how it went. Sorry, I let you guys down.
 
PAXIMUS said:
That seems to be the general consenus for most states although some are different I would assume you are correct and that is likely how VA does it. I am sure the parents will not want anything to do with that house and as someone who has worked in RE over the years it will be interesting to see how far BELOW market value that house sells for when it does, someone may be in for a real deal as unfortunate as it all is.
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Congrats on your speedy resurrection Pax.

That is how inheritance works in Virginia.

I tried a while back to get records for that property, but Prince Edward County doesn't seem to have them online. VA is a little different from some other states in that cities are not parts of counties. Towns are, and I believe that applies to all tax dealings etc., so records of real estate transactions and assessed value ought to be listed with the county. If they are online, they aren't easy to find.
 
LoveVA said:
I have wondered too what would become of the house. My guess is something drastic will have to be done, like a complete remodel or even torn down, and mabye even an address change. You couldn't pay me to live there. Farmville will be fine though. It has thrived in the last 10 years.

And I am so sorry peace gurl that you were close w/ Suzy. That was a terrible thing, how amazing that she did the costumes for titanic. I didn't know her but she was a local celebrity. I didn't know that he had killed himself. SUch an awful thing.

Would someone mind filling me in on Bizarre House? I never heard of that.
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No way could I live there either. As the matter of fact, I could not live near it! I think it should be destroyed just like the house the LU student burned up in.
Thanks, Suzie was one beautiful person. Her mom was too. Did you know her mom was a model in NY when she was younger? The shop was visited by hollywood often, if she did not have the clothing they needed she found it.
 
Sally Trueheart said:
I am interested in the book, but I hope that you will think of it's possible use as a manual for copycat killers.

Maybe putting focus on the victims would be more interesting and better for society in the long term. I would love to learn more about them. I wonder if Deborah and her daughter might have been using SKR for homeschooling homework assignments, and that's how they came to be attending the SFTW concert together.

I wonder if the copycat phenomenon is why we are experiencing a almost total silence from the mainstream media about this story right now. In The Gift of Fear, he recommends that the media should portray them as weak, pitiful losers, to deter other bent minds from trying to gain glory through killing.
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I think this is a very important point and while I do want to focus on Sam and some of the horrorcore and occult connections to the case I will definitely be researching Debra more closely to see if there is any possibility that her background in criminal justice may have been why she was letting Emma get so involved in this, perhaps in a sense she was doing her own research in to this culture both as a parent and a scholar. Great idea and I will definitely consider this should I undertake the task of writing this story.

Thanks for the input it is noted and appreciated.
 
PAXIMUS said:
Thanks Zigster and sorry to hear about your concert that stinks. I am catching up myself and just saw Peace Gurl's comment about FLOOR REMOVAL and now I am wondering what sort of flooring we are talking about, was it a WOOD/COMPOSITE/FAUX WOOD FLOORING or CARPET since surely one wouldnt have to remove tile because of stains, so I would guess carpet first or some sort of older style wood floor that wasnt sealed properly due to wear and the wood stained from the blood. This all of course lends credence to our theory and early reports that the place was a slaughterhouse in spite of the fact that we had a relative earlier saying these reports were false.

I do believe Rimer was this last Saturday (yesterday) so maybe Peace Gurl had a chance to attend or not?
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A typical house in these parts has strip oak flooring. Pine sometimes, but that is usually either very low end soft pine or high end southern yellow pine. Basic mid-20th century middle class houses usually just have oak.

No matter how well "sealed" wood is supposed to be with any finish, that is usual just a myth. Wood finishes are almost always permeable to water and water vapor to some extent. A floor usually has joints every 2 3/8 inches which will wick standing moisture through capillary action. Once that happens, the wood swells and warps, which both causes the finish to crack and opens the joints and hidden cracks even more. The tannic acid in oak also causes black staining when oak, iron, and moisture meet. Oak gall ink, which is still perfectly readable from medieval days was made that way.

I haven't tried large amounts of blood on oak, but I would guess the iron in it makes a huge nearly black stain. That is what I've seen in Virginia houses that supposedly have Revolutionary or Civil War blood stains. That's considered cool. This not so much.

I'm reminded of an article I read a few years ago in some home decorating type magazine. There were two guys who had renovated a farmhouse together and had an antique sofa they got a real good deal on at an auction where it and several other pieces of furniture were spattered with blood. It was reupholstered.

Some people get weirded out by that sort of thing, but I wouldn't. Most of what I own has come from auctions thrift shops etc. People, places, things, they've all got histories, but I can't say I've ever been hurt by something's history. More often than not the fact that something has a history before it came into my hands just makes it more interesting to me.
 
blouAngel said:
Congrats on your speedy resurrection Pax.

That is how inheritance works in Virginia.

I tried a while back to get records for that property, but Prince Edward County doesn't seem to have them online. VA is a little different from some other states in that cities are not parts of counties. Towns are, and I believe that applies to all tax dealings etc., so records of real estate transactions and assessed value ought to be listed with the county. If they are online, they aren't easy to find.
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Excellent information and just what we needed!
 
blouAngel said:
A typical house in these parts has strip oak flooring. Pine sometimes, but that is usually either very low end soft pine or high end southern yellow pine. Basic mid-20th century middle class houses usually just have oak.

No matter how well "sealed" wood is supposed to be with any finish, that is usual just a myth. Wood finishes are almost always permeable to water and water vapor to some extent. A floor usually has joints every 2 3/8 inches which will wick standing moisture through capillary action. Once that happens, the wood swells and warps, which both causes the finish to crack and opens the joints and hidden cracks even more. The tannic acid in oak also causes black staining when oak, iron, and moisture meet. Oak gall ink, which is still perfectly readable from medieval days was made that way.

I haven't tried large amounts of blood on oak, but I would guess the iron in it makes a huge nearly black stain. That is what I've seen in Virginia houses that supposedly have Revolutionary or Civil War blood stains. That's considered cool. This not so much.

I'm reminded of an article I read a few years ago in some home decorating type magazine. There were two guys who had renovated a farmhouse together and had an antique sofa they got a real good deal on at an auction where it and several other pieces of furniture were spattered with blood. It was reupholstered.

Some people get weirded out by that sort of thing, but I wouldn't. Most of what I own has come from auctions thrift shops etc. People, places, things, they've all got histories, but I can't say I've ever been hurt by something's history. More often than not the fact that something has a history before it came into my hands just makes it more interesting to me.
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Again very good and useful information here that can be used to draw some pretty solid conclusions as to what type of flooring may have been there and how that flooring would react to large amounts of blood. In my earlier life before college I was a tile setter so i do have some experience in flooring but never did any carpeting or wood flooring. I think you are right about the sealing blood would still cause some staining on it no matter how well sealed.

I am also a yard sale and thrift shop kind of guy even if I had the money to buy new fancy stuff I would much rather have old vintage things and in fact my house is pretty well decorated in 1950s style deco all around, stuff was really made well back then and I appreciate that quality craftsmenship, you dont see that today!
 
peace_gurl said:
I was told that they had to take out wood flooring.

I am sorry to say that I was unable to attend Rimer's presentation. A friend s grandmother passed so I had to attend a funeral. I will be very interested to learn how it went. Sorry, I let you guys down.
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Hey thats ok I think we all pretty much have an idea of what Rimers presentations look and sound like the only concern we had was how much he would talk about this case in particular and my guess is that he probably didnt talk much about it since it is an ongoing investgation and probably just gave a very simple and generic lecture much like what we found on youtube.
 
I'm so happy to see you back Paximus!!! Today truly has been a delightful day! Wish they were all like this. :):Jumpie::thumb::applause:
peacegurl I ended up having a few things to do myself and never made it. As she said, sorry guys. :(
 
I've been back on the task of trying to find Lizette's last name. I've listened again to the track that we think has her name on it. Here at about 2:23
http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=5676978&q=lo

I'm still hearing Madero or something very close to that. I've tried to google every variant that I can think of with no luck so far. I hear a definite ma sound at the beginning. That could be ma- or mo-, particularly if it's mon-. I've tried Montero, Monterro, and a few others. Nothing in NM so far. It could be just that she had no earlier web presence, but I doubt that somehow.

I did find tis though, which may help someone else. It's a list of hispanic surnames in New Mexico that start with m. Maybe someone who speaks spanish can do a better job than me of finding the ones that match the pronunciation on the recording.
http://www.hgrc-nm.org/surnames/GNMPD.html/surnames.html#M

Another thing that I've tried with no luck so far is to search for <3 and lizette. I don't know what <3 means, but she sometimes sings a comment that way. I can't get the "<" to come up in my search even with quotes around it. Anyone know if that's possible?
 
blouAngel said:
I've been back on the task of trying to find Lizette's last name. I've listened again to the track that we think has her name on it. Here at about 2:23
http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=5676978&q=lo

I'm still hearing Madero or something very close to that. I've tried to google every variant that I can think of with no luck so far. I hear a definite ma sound at the beginning. That could be ma- or mo-, particularly if it's mon-. I've tried Montero, Monterro, and a few others. Nothing in NM so far. It could be just that she had no earlier web presence, but I doubt that somehow.

I did find tis though, which may help someone else. It's a list of hispanic surnames in New Mexico that start with m. Maybe someone who speaks spanish can do a better job than me of finding the ones that match the pronunciation on the recording.
http://www.hgrc-nm.org/surnames/GNMPD.html/surnames.html#M

Another thing that I've tried with no luck so far is to search for <3 and lizette. I don't know what <3 means, but she sometimes sings a comment that way. I can't get the "<" to come up in my search even with quotes around it. Anyone know if that's possible?
Click to expand...

This <3 = heart or love, that's all that stands for. As for the name, I'm not so sure about what her last name is. I've been searching too.
 
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