VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #5

[AndresEscobar]

To the serial killer questions....depending on how it went down, Same might be. There are six accepted definitions of a serial killer that are sort of still evolving...he fits two, possibly three of those definitions if he killed a certain way or another.

Could you go more in depth about these two (or 3) types and cite your sources? Based on my knowledge, he is missing a few key points to make him a serial killer. This interests me.

 

[Heroine]

In jail Sam is confined alone am I correct? Or is he in the general population?

 

[piXy]

Hey Pixy! How ya been? It's good to hear from you!
Wow, the smell of babies!? :sick:

I been good woman! I got a new comp YAYYYYYYY!!!
this one has TONS of memory on it so ill be around here more often:dance:

 

[Heroine]

I been good woman! I got a new comp YAYYYYYYY!!!
this one has TONS of memory on it so ill be around here more often:dance:

I'm really glad to hear you're doing so well and will be with us a lot more!!! Congrats on the new computer!

 

[johnfear]

The most accepted definition overall is a person who murders more than three persons in a period of more than thirty days.

It's expanded on to say:

Two fantasy driven murders committed compulsively at different times and at different locations where there is little or no relationship between the perp and victim and no material gain is also considered serial murder.

Two or more separate murders when an individual, acting alone or with another, commits multiple homicides over a period of time with breaks of time undefined between each murder event is also, in some instances, serial killing.

Premeditated murder of three or more victim committed over a period of time, in separate incidents, in a civilian context, with the murder activity being chosen by the murderer.

Someone who commits two or more murders with an emotional cooling between homicides.

Someone who over time commits at least ten homicides. Frequently these are ritualistic, brutal and exceptionally violent.

These are the evolving descriptions from the original Bucks and Ressler set-ups from the text when they were developing the early VICAP. They are the principles they sought to link with that first database. A lot of pop-serial killer books correctly site one source and leave the others out, but most of the lit done by Douglas and Ressler that was boring and text like cites the whole shebang.

The time line could technically play out that three murders were committed here.

Murder 1, the mom or the girls
Murder 2. the other from above
Murder 3, the dad

Also, it could have been four

Murder 1. The mom
Murder 2. daughter
Murder 3. friend
Murder 4. the dad

I know the murders all happened separately, but we don't know how much time took place between each murder.

Just saying. Sorry, I usually lurk, but you guys built up like 80 pages on this one. Took me a bit to catch up.

 

[claudicici]

Absolutely agree, I am starving for more info on this case but it appears we have sleuthed it all out and there isnt much more to talk about. That will certainly change after his next court appearance when evidence starts to get introduced.

I certainly agree I would welcome Miss SarahThizzle with open arms.

Come on down Sarah and join our discussion.

I would love to talk to sarah but i honestly don't understand why anyone close to the case would want to talk to strangers about it....i was in a situation once when a neighbor/friend got arrested for something i couldn't even wrap my head around....the media kept knocking on my door and her kids where with me at the time and they were going through hell and I knew all the neighbors were talking **** about me as well and wouldn't let there kids come over and the whole thing was just hurtful and confusing and annoying and the last thing i would have wanted to do was explain what was going on to some strangers cos i didn't understand myself....

 

[johnfear]

The short answer here is no.

But, it's a smaller facility. And he's locked down over the time he's in there for a variety of reasons, including his own safety.

 

[Heroine]

Who could turn down such a perty face?

I would just ask him if he is ok and start from there?

Why thank you! It would be very odd to go visit Sam I'm sure. Even though I am a pin-up model I still don't think Sam would want to talk to me, especially since I'm sure his lawyer has made it very clear not to speak to people like me. Now what can be learned from inside of the jail is another story all together.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Why thank you! It would be very odd to go visit Sam I'm sure. Even though I am a pin-up model I still don't think Sam would want to talk to me, especially since I'm sure his lawyer has made it very clear not to speak to people like me. Now what can be learned from inside of the jail is another story all together.

There you go! Hit up some of those corrections officers around town, those guys usually run around in packs and all go to the same bars after work, find out where they hang and hit them up after they got a few beers in them LOL.:dance:

 

[Heroine]

There you go! Hit up some of those corrections officers around town, those guys usually run around in packs and all go to the same bars after work, find out where they hang and hit them up after they got a few beers in them LOL.:dance:

In jail does Sam ever come in contact with the general population? Very good idea btw esp about the beers...haha!

 

[PAXIMUS]

Hey Pixy! How ya been? It's good to hear from you!
Wow, the smell of babies!? :sick:

You may have missed it earlier in a previous post but Raz asks her friends to send her socks that their babies have worn.

 

[PAXIMUS]

piXy what is HCR?

 

[PAXIMUS]

In jail does Sam ever come in contact with the general population? Very good idea btw esp about the beers...haha!

Probably not, someone was on here the other day saying their son was in the same jail Sam was and that he saw Sam and that Sam was in a cell up front right in front of the guards station and his cell had a glass front so they could see him all the time. He doesnt leave that cell at all for any reason, no gen pop contact at all I am sure.

 

[Heroine]

You may have missed it earlier in a previous post but Raz asks her friends to send her socks that their babies have worn.

WTF? Yeah I missed that and sorry I didn't read a little further back. That's insane! WTF would she do with them? NEVERMIND!!! I don't think I even want to know!:crazy:

 

[AndresEscobar]

Alright, I'm doing some research on a motion to change venue in Virginia. Here's what I have so far:

My information is culled from Virginia Practice Criminal Procedure Series 2008 by Ronald J. Bacigal (Va. Prac. Criminal Procedure § 14:21 (2008 ed.))

Venue in a criminal proceeding in Virginia is located in the county or city where the offense was committed.

A motion for a change of venue must be made at least seven days before the day fixed for trial. Either the Commonwealth or the accused may move for a change of venue. The burden of proof is on the party making the motion.

A need for change of venue can be established in two ways: based on pre trial climate and during selecting of the jury pool.

In regards to pretrial climate, “Sheer volume” of media coverage does not establish that the accused cannot receive a fair and impartial trial. However, Affidavits from a diverse group of residents which disclose the polarization of public opinion may justify a change of venue.

During selection of a jury pool, the need for change of venue can be established as well. The difficulty or ease with which an impartial jury is selected may be evidence of community prejudice.

The court should grant a change of venue when the voir dire (jury selection) indicates that (1) there has been extensive publicity or widespread knowledge of the crime or the accused, (2) this publicity has generated a widespread feeling of prejudice within the community, and (3) this feeling of prejudice is reasonably certain to prevent a fair and impartial trial.

In considering a change of venue motion, the court must look to the conditions at the time of the trial, not to the conditions at the time of the crime.

 

[Heroine]

The short answer here is no.

But, it's a smaller facility. And he's locked down over the time he's in there for a variety of reasons, including his own safety.

Thanks! Sorry I just saw this!

 

[johnfear]

Bear with me while I figure out how to reply.

There was a ton of information on the Knox County Newsom-Christian murders and how it works. It looks similar and I think you can go to Knoxnews or WBIR over there and actually watch the arguments on this. One guy wanted a Knox jury, but the judge actually tried to block it or at least talk some sense into the dude. (I think it's the guy who got DP in that case)

The dismemberment rumors and horror-core connection alone will be reason enough to change the venue.

But, what does that do? Get you down the street from the people most likely to be offended?

Hardly matters where you go here....his outcome has the same likely mess attached.

And if I recall correctly, don't neighboring towns in the South talk more about how the madness goes down around them?

Like.....didn't you hear about Aunt Bea in Mayberry.....

 

[AndresEscobar]

The most accepted definition overall is a person who murders more than three persons in a period of more than thirty days.

It's expanded on to say:

Two fantasy driven murders committed compulsively at different times and at different locations where there is little or no relationship between the perp and victim and no material gain is also considered serial murder.

Two or more separate murders when an individual, acting alone or with another, commits multiple homicides over a period of time with breaks of time undefined between each murder event is also, in some instances, serial killing.

Premeditated murder of three or more victim committed over a period of time, in separate incidents, in a civilian context, with the murder activity being chosen by the murderer.

Someone who commits two or more murders with an emotional cooling between homicides.

Someone who over time commits at least ten homicides. Frequently these are ritualistic, brutal and exceptionally violent.

These are the evolving descriptions from the original Bucks and Ressler set-ups from the text when they were developing the early VICAP. They are the principles they sought to link with that first database. A lot of pop-serial killer books correctly site one source and leave the others out, but most of the lit done by Douglas and Ressler that was boring and text like cites the whole shebang.

The time line could technically play out that three murders were committed here.

Murder 1, the mom or the girls
Murder 2. the other from above
Murder 3, the dad

Also, it could have been four

Murder 1. The mom
Murder 2. daughter
Murder 3. friend
Murder 4. the dad

I know the murders all happened separately, but we don't know how much time took place between each murder.

Just saying. Sorry, I usually lurk, but you guys built up like 80 pages on this one. Took me a bit to catch up.

Could you please direct us to a specific source that lists these definitions? I haven't heard of any of them and my understanding of serial killers comes from forensic science and criminal justice classes I took in college.

 

[Heroine]

Bear with me while I figure out how to reply.

There was a ton of information on the Knox County Newsom-Christian murders and how it works. It looks similar and I think you can go to Knoxnews or WBIR over there and actually watch the arguments on this. One guy wanted a Knox jury, but the judge actually tried to block it or at least talk some sense into the dude. (I think it's the guy who got DP in that case)

The dismemberment rumors and horror-core connection alone will be reason enough to change the venue.

But, what does that do? Get you down the street from the people most likely to be offended?

Hardly matters where you go here....his outcome has the same likely mess attached.

And if I recall correctly, don't neighboring towns in the South talk more about how the madness goes down around them?

Like.....didn't you hear about Aunt Bea in Mayberry.....

Well I must say I'm very close to that town and I don't have any Aunt Bea's......haha! But to answer your question, people do indeed talk about what goes on around them and right beside them.
around here when I dye my hair an odd color which is pretty often, it's discussed for days. Once I even had a lady look directly at me and say I thought you were better than that.:snooty: As if the color of my hair makes me a different person.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Bear with me while I figure out how to reply.

There was a ton of information on the Knox County Newsom-Christian murders and how it works. It looks similar and I think you can go to Knoxnews or WBIR over there and actually watch the arguments on this. One guy wanted a Knox jury, but the judge actually tried to block it or at least talk some sense into the dude. (I think it's the guy who got DP in that case)

The dismemberment rumors and horror-core connection alone will be reason enough to change the venue.

But, what does that do? Get you down the street from the people most likely to be offended?

Hardly matters where you go here....his outcome has the same likely mess attached.

And if I recall correctly, don't neighboring towns in the South talk more about how the madness goes down around them?

Like.....didn't you hear about Aunt Bea in Mayberry.....

Well, a change of venue gives you a more impartial jury pool. They'll hopefully take a capital charge more seriously than just brushing it off as "madness" from down the road.