VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #5

[AndresEscobar]

Hmm... This is the south. You act like you are innocent until proven guilty. Geesh. I am probaly wrong. Although I think IMO you watch to much CSI TV. No offense given, please do not take it that way. Sometimes I think the good ole boy system here is in effect. Don't you think all the Judges and Lawyers get together and have breakfast and discuss the upcoming cases and decide your fate? Unless you spend some real cash on a lawyer who in turns spends some, you are screwed. What about OJ? Sorry at work bored

Judges and lawyers don't have "breakfast" to decide someones fate, they have trials. Rulings on motions in capitol cases are not taken lightly. There are many, many constitutional barriers to insure a fair trial, and in the event that there isn't one there is plenty of scrutiny, as well of plenty academics and cash to spend to "right" unfair trials.

 

[AndresEscobar]

ITA. When I said that his lawyer wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't get a venue change, I meant that his job is to give the most persuasive argument in Sam's favor. But you are absolutely right, it would be foolish for the judge to deny it.

If they send it up to Northern Virginia then perhaps I can attend some of the trial. Northern Virginia is more liberal than other parts of Virginia so I'm not sure why someone thought that Sam would "fry" in Alexandria. IMO he'd have a better shot at LWOP in the more liberal pockets of the state.

I don't portend to know anything about Virginia, other than that I wouldn't want to be accused of a crime there. I picked the DC suburbs because I know of their liberal slant and larger percentage of educated individuals. But, that was without any substantive research on my part.

 

[CharlieChan]

Hi Raz, if you"re here (long time lurker). Raz seems to be thumbin her nose to everyone but if the only thing they"ve done is sorta contribute to the delinquency of these minors (products of permissive child rearing) then that's one thing. I always managed to find someone to sympathize & get me underage alcohol. What the SicknRaz show needs to consider is the communications that took place before and after the murders. You have people in Virginia, New Mexico & California (others too I beleive). Anytime crimes involve crossing state lines or jurasdictions, you're just begging the Feds to get involved. OUCH! Federal judges are required to operate under mandatory sentencing guidelines. It's not pretty.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Yeah, I see your point. I guess that type of juror (first paragraph) could go either way. It's damn hard to come up with a type that would be sympathetic to Sam--even though he is, I think, an intrisically sympathetic character type in and of himself--once you introduce the victimology.

What's available trialwise generally in VA, has anyone laid it out for us yet? We know there's that weird capital murder charge with the 2 people in 3 years clause. That kind of blows me. What's the usual state of affairs regarding LWP, LWOP? Any interesting sentencing quirks?

Hey, another thing I was wondering about: is there anything ambiguous about "Jesus made me do it" being brought into evidence? Of course he'd been read his rights by then, but is it evidence of anything that matters? (This may have been touched on here earlier.)

Any other aspects we might float until the next developments?

I haven't done any real case law research yet as I don't really want that billing to come in and have to try to explain it. I will try to do some this weekend to see what I find.

The "jesus made me do it" thing, if allowed to be introduced, will be objected to and will then be an issue that's appealable.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Thanks Pax! So that's the guy who claims to have taken part in the video. Yikes. I went to Dangrs' link, took one glance and closed the window. He definitely deserves his own chapter.

Yea he appears to be another interesting character in our little story here, lurking in from the fringes as he is.

 

[ericclimbs]

DM

Have you had a chance to read any of Levenda's "Sinister Forces" books, its a series of books, they go for about 300 bucks for each book in the series used paperback, not easy to find but fascinating reading.

Man you guys keep me busy on this site. I spend a day and a half away and I'm seven pages in the hole (not that I'm comlaining!). AnnMarie asked what was going on here with the OT lately but, in the absence of much new information I think the prolific posters on here have more than earned the right to discuss whatever they please until such new info comes to light.

Anyway, in regards to Pax's qoute above these books have been republished and can be had for normal book prices:

Amazon.com: Programmed to Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder (9780595326402): David McGowan: Books

I haven't read them but I check out nearly everything mentioned and discussed in this forums. All of it very fascinating!

 

[AndresEscobar]

Well that may be the case but not where I have practiced law. There will be a preliminary hearing thats when the evidence is presented and when the judge decides if a trial should be held.

As for a venue change, like I said if they deny it they will be helping Sam on appeal. He cant get a fair trial no way no how.

The jury would not be already picked and a foreman of the jury elected two months before a preliminary hearing. This is the problem with unsubstantiated rumors I tried to address earlier.

 

[peace_gurl]

I didnt even know they started jury selection yet, are you sure they have? I would think there would be a lot of motions filed before they even get to that, for example change of venue etc.

His preliminary hearing (evidentiary hearing) is Jan 11th and this is a proceeding, after a criminal complaint has been filed by the prosecutor which they did a few weeks ago, to determine whether there is enough evidence to require a trial.

At this point it has not even been decided if Sam will stand trial, we wont know that until Jan 11th when all the evidence is presented to the court and the court decides if a trial shall proceed from there. So they are not anywhere near jury selection yet. Once they have the prelim then you will have all sorts of motions to supress this evidence or that evidence and that could go on for a while, then you will have change of venue motions etc. Then once it is decided what evidence is admissible and what evidence is inadmissible the judge finally rules on whether there is enough evidence for a trial. They would then change venue or not and lastly they will then begin jury selection and I dont see that happening until late Feb or even March.

Grand jury maybe? I served on a jury for a murder trial years ago. Selection is made at the beginning of the trial.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Man you guys keep me busy on this site. I spend a day and a half away and I'm seven pages in the hole (not that I'm comlaining!). AnnMarie asked what was going on here with the OT lately but, in the absence of much new information I think the prolific posters on here have more than earned the right to discuss whatever they please until such new info comes to light.

Anyway, in regards to Pax's qoute above these books have been republished and can be had for normal book prices:

Amazon.com: Programmed to Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder (9780595326402): David McGowan: Books

I haven't read them but I check out nearly everything mentioned and discussed in this forums. All of it very fascinating!

Yes thats true you can get the newer editions for 20 bucks or so, the ones I have are signed which I really dont care about, its whats in them that interests me, very fascinating reading and I am glad to see you delving in to some of this stuff, it will open a lot of doors for you as you go along, you will start to see things much more clearly all around you.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Grand jury maybe?

I think he was already indicted wasnt he?

 

[PAXIMUS]

The jury would not be already picked and a foreman of the jury elected two months before a preliminary hearing. This is the problem with unsubstantiated rumors I tried to address earlier.

Yea I am not sure where he got the idea the jury was picked, we have a long way to go before we get to that.

We will have at least a 50 page thread going in the second week of Jan when the prelim hearing starts and all the evidence is made public, thats when it gets fun.

 

[peace_gurl]

Leilah Wendell, the necromantic author mentioned by SickTanick in his O.T.O. interview, mentions the use of scents in the form of incense in her Necromantic Ritual Book.

Rose - for the spirit of a departed loved one
Sandalwood - for the ministering elementals/guardian spirits
Musk - for the protective spirit
Jasmine - for the Angel of Death

There is also a ritual in this book that calls for "easy access to at least one corpse" and use of a "hollyberry" scented candle.

FWIW.

Very interesting Thanks

 

[AndresEscobar]

I think he was already indicted wasnt he?

Yes. A grand jury only listens to the evidence and decides whether the person should be indicted. They have no say in whether to "bring the hammer down hard".

 

[ericclimbs]

Anyway, in regards to Pax's qoute above these books have been republished and can be had for normal book prices:

Amazon.com: Programmed to Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder (9780595326402): David McGowan: Books

I haven't read them but I check out nearly everything mentioned and discussed in this forums. All of it very fascinating!

Whoops wrong link. Sorry:

Correction --

Amazon.com: Sinister Forces-The Nine: A Grimoire of American Political Witchcraft (Bk. 1) (9780975290620): Peter Levenda, Jim Hougan: Books

 

[peace_gurl]

I think he was already indicted wasnt he?

Exactly, thinking that what the rumor was about.

 

[gxm]

I don't portend to know anything about Virginia, other than that I wouldn't want to be accused of a crime there. I picked the DC suburbs because I know of their liberal slant and larger percentage of educated individuals. But, that was without any substantive research on my part.

ITA. I've lived in Northern Virginia my entire life (born in DC) and IMO the DC suburbs (aka Inside the Beltway) would have one of the highest percentages of liberals and moderates in the jury pool.

 

[ericclimbs]

Yes thats true you can get the newer editions for 20 bucks or so, the ones I have are signed which I really dont care about, its whats in them that interests me, very fascinating reading and I am glad to see you delving in to some of this stuff, it will open a lot of doors for you as you go along, you will start to see things much more clearly all around you.

Thanks I'll have to check some of this stuff out. I am a solid agnostic and consider myself to have a very open mind. I don't necessarily believe in things but I also don't not believe in them, if that makes any sense. Life after death? Maybe, maybe not. UFO's? Maybe, maybe not. Angels and Demons? Maybe, maybe not. Just to name but a few mysteries. I've certainly read compelling info for and against many of these arguments.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Thanks I'll have to check some of this stuff out. I am a solid agnostic and consider myself to have a very open mind. I don't necessarily believe in things but I also don't not believe in them, if that makes any sense. Life after death? Maybe, maybe not. UFO's? Maybe, maybe not. Angels and Demons? Maybe, maybe not. Just to name but a few mysteries. I've certainly read compelling info for and against many of these arguments.

Yea I am about the same, I just read everything I can get my hands on.

 

[ericclimbs]

ITA. I've lived in Northern Virginia my entire life (born in DC) and IMO the DC suburbs (aka Inside the Beltway) would have one of the highest percentages of liberals and moderates in the jury pool.

I live in California but grew up in NOVA (born at Alexandria Hospital). I have to agree here, at least in regards to the state of Virginia.

 

[peace_gurl]

I dont know anything about the grand jury. Do they decide what charges should be made? Do they have any say other than yes, charge him or no do not charge him?