VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #5

[tapu]

tapu, I find it interesting you say family of AA members, people that can relate more...I think, and I may be waaaaaay off base here, but a lot of people will be looking for something to project how they really feel. ok that was all gibberish. Ok, say Mary get's on the jury. Mary has a brother who is always messing up, forever doing SOMETHING wrong because of alcohol substance abuse type thing. He's in AA, cleaning life up....I think that a lot of people may find it easier to condemn someone outside of their family for everything they have been through.

Now that beings said, I think it'll be hard to find an unbiased jury. I mean, these were almost like 2 separate acts. between the 3 women and the 1 preacher.

I think passive males are good. I also think chovuanistic (wow i butchered that) men would be a good choice, men who don't see women as an important part of life outside of childbirth.

Yeah, I see your point. I guess that type of juror (first paragraph) could go either way. It's damn hard to come up with a type that would be sympathetic to Sam--even though he is, I think, an intrisically sympathetic character type in and of himself--once you introduce the victimology.

What's available trialwise generally in VA, has anyone laid it out for us yet? We know there's that weird capital murder charge with the 2 people in 3 years clause. That kind of blows me. What's the usual state of affairs regarding LWP, LWOP? Any interesting sentencing quirks?

Hey, another thing I was wondering about: is there anything ambiguous about "Jesus made me do it" being brought into evidence? Of course he'd been read his rights by then, but is it evidence of anything that matters? (This may have been touched on here earlier.)

Any other aspects we might float until the next developments?

 

[tapu]

Me too, one of my favorite areas of study. Big student of everything Manson, Laurel Canyon, Polanski etc.

Strange things was going on around them parts, strange things...

Hey, I have all the first person accounts: Tex's book, Susan Atkins', Paul Watkins'.... I know you have some print, too, like Santa Susana.... I have that, Nuel Edmonds, Garbage People (both editions), etc. I think I'm going to throw them out in a yard sale someday and watch people's reactions....

 

[dangrsmind]

If in a sealed up room, someone put clean air machines and lot of scented candles around the people they killed what would you think about that?

Something weird that occurs to me here...

Why isn't he just leaving town instead of hanging around spending money on things like this?

One possibility seems to be that the wanted to dispose of the bodies, but didn't have the keys to the van which were found in an air conditioning unit IIRC. This also explains the Poorhouse Road trip a few days later once he did have access to a car. Scouting a burial/dump site.

Also, I just have to ask, what scent of candles did he pick?

:couch:

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

Something weird that occurs to me here...

Why isn't he just leaving town instead of hanging around spending money on things like this?

One possibility seems to be that the wanted to dispose of the bodies, but didn't have the keys to the van which were found in an air conditioning unit IIRC. This also explains the Poorhouse Road trip a few days later once he did have access to a car. Scouting a burial/dump site.

Also, I just have to ask, what scent of candles did he pick?

:couch:

I was curious to the scent as well...maybe it may play more into ritualistic than I originally gave credence to. Or maybe he was trying to burn down the house. Maybe the smell just plain sucked even to him. ah who knows by now. For all we know, he was trying to seduce emma and had the candles out before hand and when that didn't work he snapped. We just don't know much and that SUCKS! calling the in laws this afternoon, I need some VA insight!!

Tapu, i'll ask about all of the questions above, my MIL is a court junkie as well, so she should be up on the case!

 

[Farmvillian]

ITA. IMO, Sam's weight loss would most likely be attributed to depression. Not bathing (one of Sam's traits) is also a symptom of depression. IMO Sam is a kid who desperately needed something good, some light, to enter his life. He may have hoped that Emma could be this light. And her rejection sent him into a descent of rage.

ETA: BTW, Pax, when I said that Sam wasn't in love with Emma, I was using my concept of love which doesn't include killing the person you love. Our culture is awash in the commodification of women and many men see women as a thing to be owned. I do agree that Sam probably wanted to have/own the pretty and popular Emma. But IMO this is not love.

IMO he lost the weight because he was meeeting a hot girl from Va.

 

[gxm]

LOL we sure have run in to some interesting characters in this case, I think this Tom Newton fellow deserves a chaper of his own, what a whackjob.

Who is Tom Newton? I must have been away from the board when he was discussed.

 

[Farmvillian]

Lets talk about JURY SELECTION who does the prosecution want on that jury?

Who does the defense want on that jury?

Who is most likely to feel sympathtic towards Sam?

Minorities, black males or females?
Older while males or females?
Educated or uneducated folks?
Christians or non christian/atheist/pagan etc?

I think the prosecution will favor older white christian females and the defense will want young adult or middle aged college graduates with no religious affiliation as these types will be less prone to making rash emotional decisions. Minorities could go either way, they may not respect a white boy trying to rap, for example. Divoriced males may be sympathetic towards Sam, perhaps understanding the feeling of rejection etc. Its a college town but I dont know how long a student must be a resident before they are required to serve on a jury, students could go either way, Debra was a professor afterall but they are also more likely to understand Sam's lifestyle and the culture that he was part of.

Rumorville says that the head of the jury is a white female in her 60's who will bring the hammer down hard. Just rumor though.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Who is Tom Newton? I must have been away from the board when he was discussed.

Go to post 34 and read from there re: Tom Newton aka "Mark" Kropidlowski.

Here is DMs findings:

This is interesting...

I did a Google blog search for "SickTanick" and I found this:



http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?q=sicktanick

Turns out that someone claiming to be Mark Kropidlowski made both the "SKR are terrorists" blog and the "satanic ritual blog".

See http://horror-core.blogspot.com/ and http://sammccrosky.blogspot.com/

 

[PAXIMUS]

Rumorville says that the head of the jury is a white female in her 60's who will bring the hammer down hard. Just rumor though.

I didnt even know they started jury selection yet, are you sure they have? I would think there would be a lot of motions filed before they even get to that, for example change of venue etc.

His preliminary hearing (evidentiary hearing) is Jan 11th and this is a proceeding, after a criminal complaint has been filed by the prosecutor which they did a few weeks ago, to determine whether there is enough evidence to require a trial.

At this point it has not even been decided if Sam will stand trial, we wont know that until Jan 11th when all the evidence is presented to the court and the court decides if a trial shall proceed from there. So they are not anywhere near jury selection yet. Once they have the prelim then you will have all sorts of motions to supress this evidence or that evidence and that could go on for a while, then you will have change of venue motions etc. Then once it is decided what evidence is admissible and what evidence is inadmissible the judge finally rules on whether there is enough evidence for a trial. They would then change venue or not and lastly they will then begin jury selection and I dont see that happening until late Feb or even March.

 

[Farmvillian]

That's why I'm suggesting DC burbs is probably his best bet, the venue for which his lawyer should advocate.

Farmville law enforcement will not let this one go. I forsee no change in venue. IMO

 

[PAXIMUS]

Farmville law enforcement will not let this one go. I forsee no change in venue. IMO

Well that is up to the judge really and if they get stubborn and decide to deny Sam a change of venue they may actually be helping him because I could easily argue after the fact on appeal that he couldnt have gotten a fair trial in Farmville and the appeals court might toss his conviction because of it. IMO if Sams lawyer pushes hard for a change of venue they have to give it to him or they will be setting themselves up for appeal.

 

[gxm]

Go to post 34 and read from there re: Tom Newton aka "Mark" Kropidlowski.

Here is DMs findings:

This is interesting...

I did a Google blog search for "SickTanick" and I found this:



http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?q=sicktanick

Turns out that someone claiming to be Mark Kropidlowski made both the "SKR are terrorists" blog and the "satanic ritual blog".

See http://horror-core.blogspot.com/ and http://sammccrosky.blogspot.com/

Thanks Pax! So that's the guy who claims to have taken part in the video. Yikes. I went to Dangrs' link, took one glance and closed the window. He definitely deserves his own chapter.

 

[tapu]

Hey! Keys in the AC unit.... I'd forgotten about that. I know it was suggested that maybe Debra hid them from Emma but.... I can certainly speculate otherwise. On my way home from work now, though! What can any of you make out of this key thing? See you inna.

--tap

 

[PAXIMUS]

Hey, I have all the first person accounts: Tex's book, Susan Atkins', Paul Watkins'.... I know you have some print, too, like Santa Susana.... I have that, Nuel Edmonds, Garbage People (both editions), etc. I think I'm going to throw them out in a yard sale someday and watch people's reactions....

LOL I always wanted to take all my crazy conspiracy books and set them out at a yard sale just to see how people would respond. Romance novels these are not heh heh.

If you ever want to get rid of yours pack them up and send me a bill, I will buy them from you. Ill take anything Manson related even if I already have it.

 

[Farmvillian]

I didnt even know they started jury selection yet, are you sure they have? I would think there would be a lot of motions filed before they even get to that, for example change of venue etc.

His preliminary hearing (evidentiary hearing) is Jan 11th and this is a proceeding, after a criminal complaint has been filed by the prosecutor which they did a few weeks ago, to determine whether there is enough evidence to require a trial.

At this point it has not even been decided if Sam will stand trial, we wont know that until Jan 11th when all the evidence is presented to the court and the court decides if a trial shall proceed from there. So they are not anywhere near jury selection yet. Once they have the prelim and the judge rules that there is enough evidence to proceed with a trial, then you will have all sorts of motions to supress this evidence or that evidence and that could go on for a while, then you will have change of venue motions etc. Then once it is decided what evidence is admissible and what evidence is inadmissible and change the venue should the judge agree to such they will then begin jury selection and I dont see that happening until late Feb or even March.

Hmm... This is the south. You act like you are innocent until proven guilty. Geesh. I am probaly wrong. Although I think IMO you watch to much CSI TV. No offense given, please do not take it that way. Sometimes I think the good ole boy system here is in effect. Don't you think all the Judges and Lawyers get together and have breakfast and discuss the upcoming cases and decide your fate? Unless you spend some real cash on a lawyer who in turns spends some, you are screwed. What about OJ? Sorry at work bored

 

[dangrsmind]

I was curious to the scent as well...maybe it may play more into ritualistic than I originally gave credence to. Or maybe he was trying to burn down the house. Maybe the smell just plain sucked even to him. ah who knows by now. For all we know, he was trying to seduce emma and had the candles out before hand and when that didn't work he snapped. We just don't know much and that SUCKS! calling the in laws this afternoon, I need some VA insight!!

Tapu, i'll ask about all of the questions above, my MIL is a court junkie as well, so she should be up on the case!

Leilah Wendell, the necromantic author mentioned by SickTanick in his O.T.O. interview, mentions the use of scents in the form of incense in her Necromantic Ritual Book.

Rose - for the spirit of a departed loved one
Sandalwood - for the ministering elementals/guardian spirits
Musk - for the protective spirit
Jasmine - for the Angel of Death

There is also a ritual in this book that calls for "easy access to at least one corpse" and use of a "hollyberry" scented candle.

FWIW.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Hmm... This is the south. You act like you are innocent until proven guilty. Geesh. I am probaly wrong. Although I think IMO you watch to much CSI TV. No offense given, please do not take it that way. Sometimes I think the good ole boy system here is in effect. Don't you think all the Judges and Lawyers get together and have breakfast and discuss the upcoming cases and decide your fate? Unless you spend some real cash on a lawyer who in turns spends some, you are screwed. What about OJ? Sorry at work bored

Well that may be the case but not where I have practiced law. There will be a preliminary hearing thats when the evidence is presented and when the judge decides if a trial should be held.

As for a venue change, like I said if they deny it they will be helping Sam on appeal. He cant get a fair trial no way no how.

 

[gxm]

Well that may be the case but not where I have practiced law. There will be a preliminary hearing thats when the evidence is presented and when the judge decides if a trial should be held.

As for a venue change, like I said if they deny it they will be helping Sam on appeal. He cant get a fair trial no way no how.

ITA. When I said that his lawyer wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't get a venue change, I meant that his job is to give the most persuasive argument in Sam's favor. But you are absolutely right, it would be foolish for the judge to deny it.

If they send it up to Northern Virginia then perhaps I can attend some of the trial. Northern Virginia is more liberal than other parts of Virginia so I'm not sure why someone thought that Sam would "fry" in Alexandria. IMO he'd have a better shot at LWOP in the more liberal pockets of the state.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Rumorville says that the head of the jury is a white female in her 60's who will bring the hammer down hard. Just rumor though.

Jury selection certainly hasn't begun yet.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Farmville law enforcement will not let this one go. I forsee no change in venue. IMO

Farmville law enforcement has no say in a change of venue motion.