VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #5

[PAXIMUS]

The question of whether we're all just like Sam except for some input or environmental factor is interesting to me....

I think I've mentioned here before that I have a collection of various media about the Manson Family. For a long time, I said I was fascinated by what happened there because I could easily have been Sadie or Leslie or one of the other girls. But as I've gotten older, I start to question that. Maybe there is something in me that just could not cross that line. It truly feels as though there is when I focus on it, and yet most literature, culture, psychology, etc., would argue that we're all capable.

Still thinking...

Each and every single one of us are capable of killing another person, it may take most of us a HELL OF A LOT more than it took Sam to get to that point but we are capable of it make no mistake. We do not know that abuse Sam may have suffered as a child or whatever, we just dont know. His friends and those close to him have indicated Sam had it pretty bad but his family doesnt seem to indicate that it was THAT bad but why would they admit to that now?

We dont know the facts and until then we have no business judging Sam.

Now I am not saying that a bad childhood even the worse we can imagine makes it ok to later kill people but everyone has a breaking point, it is what it is.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Yeah, I understood. But he didn't just make "a" horrible split second decision. According to your rationale he would've made four separate horrible split second decisions.

What it amounts to is he brutally killed four individuals, two likely at the same approximate time, one slightly earlier/later, and one a couple days later.

And sure, every time he killed it was a split second decision where he could've changed his mind. But to act like this was just one split second decision is rather lame.

It might be lame to you, but most violent offenders I deal with get stuck in bad situations that snowball based on bad decisions.

If Sam just leaves the house instead of killing the girls, no one gets hurt and everyone's lives are different.

 

[ScaryMary]

I must say, it is really nice to be able to come to a place to talk about this case without hearing "I hope he gets raped", "Fry him!", "**** that ******!". We all may not agree on things, but at least you all are adult about it! It is very refreshing.

Also, to RockDawg, I will post these up for you to see for yourself. I don't have any reason to misinform you guys. I just found a flaw (to my understanding) in the news report that was posted yesterday so I wanted to tell you all about it because if that small tidbit of info was false than who knows what else is :shakehead:
(But then again he may be out of his mind and just *thinks* they are being nice to him? Who knows...)

http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/MrKimmel/letterfromsam2.jpg
http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/MrKimmel/envelope.jpg

 

[AndresEscobar]

I must say, it is really nice to be able to come to a place to talk about this case without hearing "I hope he gets raped", "Fry him!", "**** that ******!". We all may not agree on things, but at least you all are adult about it! It is very refreshing.

Also, to RockDawg, I will post these up for you to see for yourself. I don't have any reason to misinform you guys. I just found a flaw (to my understanding) in the news report that was posted yesterday so I wanted to tell you all about it because if that small tidbit of info was false than who knows what else is :shakehead:
(But then again he may be out of his mind and just *thinks* they are being nice to him? Who knows...)

http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/MrKimmel/letterfromsam2.jpg
http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/MrKimmel/envelope.jpg

His handwriting looks like a 10 year old's.

 

[nakedmanjoe]

Maybe you're not getting my point: he could have not killed the those people up until he killed them, do you get what I'm saying? He could have decided to kill them all, but he had every opportunity to stop until he killed them.

Say tonight I decide to hit someone. I have up until the moment I actually hit them to change my mind. Its fractions of a second between committing a crime and just going home.

This reminds me of a question that was aked to me when I was in elementary school by a teacher.

If a man shoots a bullet from 100ft at a tree and every second it moves halfway closer to the tree...how long does it take the bullet to get to the tree.

 

[peace_gurl]

Maybe he felt that way and maybe he didnt, we simply do not know and I tend to try and deal with facts and not speculation or emotional response, when and if we do find out why Sam did it then that would be the time for this discussion, until then we are in no position to judge him. I also completely disagree with you that you are incapable of taking another person's life. I understand you may think that and you dont sit around considering that you could do it but if the right buttons were pushed and you hit your breaking point you could possibly react in a way that would surpirse you.

Not judging him, but if he did murder 4 ppl.... honestly would you invite him to sleep in your bedroom? And if you could invite him to sleep beside you could you sleep?
I am glad I live in the sweet breeze of the Commonwealth of VA.
I could not pick up a maul and kill 4 people......one by one.....different times and different days......takes some careful thinking......

 

[nakedmanjoe]

The question of whether we're all just like Sam except for some input or environmental factor is interesting to me....

I think I've mentioned here before that I have a collection of various media about the Manson Family. For a long time, I said I was fascinated by what happened there because I could easily have been Sadie or Leslie or one of the other girls. But as I've gotten older, I start to question that. Maybe there is something in me that just could not cross that line. It truly feels as though there is when I focus on it, and yet most literature, culture, psychology, etc., would argue that we're all capable.

Still thinking...

Tapu, I ponder this myself. I've spent a fair amount of time reading up on the psychology of serial killers. From my own personal experiences and research in life I believe that the vast majority of us can kill under different circumstances. I believe a lot of people can be convinced to do so by war, propaganda, self defense, jealousy, money and some others. I believe that if there are circumstances that can make us justify our actions we can kill. I don't think "normal" people can kill cold blooded without some type of influence unless they are suffeing mentally or have psychopathic tendacies. Of course this is my opinion.

 

[RockDawg]

I must say, it is really nice to be able to come to a place to talk about this case without hearing "I hope he gets raped", "Fry him!", "**** that ******!". We all may not agree on things, but at least you all are adult about it! It is very refreshing.

Also, to RockDawg, I will post these up for you to see for yourself. I don't have any reason to misinform you guys. I just found a flaw (to my understanding) in the news report that was posted yesterday so I wanted to tell you all about it because if that small tidbit of info was false than who knows what else is :shakehead:
(But then again he may be out of his mind and just *thinks* they are being nice to him? Who knows...)

http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/MrKimmel/letterfromsam2.jpg
http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/MrKimmel/envelope.jpg

Thanks for posting that . That is pretty peculiar , to say the least.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I must say, it is really nice to be able to come to a place to talk about this case without hearing "I hope he gets raped", "Fry him!", "**** that ******!". We all may not agree on things, but at least you all are adult about it! It is very refreshing.

Also, to RockDawg, I will post these up for you to see for yourself. I don't have any reason to misinform you guys. I just found a flaw (to my understanding) in the news report that was posted yesterday so I wanted to tell you all about it because if that small tidbit of info was false than who knows what else is :shakehead:
(But then again he may be out of his mind and just *thinks* they are being nice to him? Who knows...)

http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/MrKimmel/letterfromsam2.jpg
http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/MrKimmel/envelope.jpg

Surprisingly there are A LOT of comments like that on other websleuths threads dealing with other cases, it is sort of shocking but I havent seen ANYTHING at all like that with this group and it is the one reason I decided to stick around, the discussion has been very level headed and civil even by those who are close to the situation. The other site where you posted your information first had some really disusting follow up comments, some of those people disturb me more than Sam does with the **** that they say about him.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Not judging him, but if he did murder 4 ppl.... honestly would you invite him to sleep in your bedroom? And if you could invite him to sleep beside you could you sleep?
I am glad I live in the sweet breeze of the Commonwealth of VA.
I could not pick up a maul and kill 4 people......one by one.....different times and different days......takes some careful thinking......

No but I dont normally make a habit of sleeping with other men in my bedroom. But I see your point, I dont think I would trust Sam after what he has done and I dont think he should be released from prison for the rest of his life all I have said is that there is nothin wrong with trying to reach out to Sam and let him know that the world isnt always the cold, dark, bitter, violent and indifferent place that he has been led to believe it is by everyone close to him.

Also this whole thing about judging others who kill, the United States is currently slaughtering innocent women, mothers and children by the thousands in Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan and most of the country seems to support these senseless acts of violence and war crimes because it is an organized effort funded by our tax dollars and carrried out by men in uniforrm but to me it is no different, war is a racket and a very profitable business for many many people and they are just as guilty as someone like Sam only we see them as Heros and Sam as a monster.

 

[nakedmanjoe]

No but I dont normally make a habit of sleeping with other men in my bedroom. But I see your point, I dont think I would trust Sam after what he has done and I dont think he should be released from prison for the rest of his life all I have said is that there is nothin wrong with trying to reach out to Sam and let him know that the world isnt always the cold, dark, bitter, violent and indifferent place that he has been led to believe it is by everyone close to him.

Also this whole thing about judging others who kill, the United States is currently slaughtering innocent women, mothers and children by the thousands in Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan and most of the country seems to support these senseless acts of violence and war crimes because it is an organized effort funded by our tax dollars and carrried out by men in uniforrm but to me it is no different, war is a racket and a very profitable business for many many people and they are just as guilty as someone like Sam only we see them as Heros and Sam as a monster.

The difference here is that there is a means to an end here...If you believe in the "cause"....which I'll leave my personal opinion to myself here. Whether you believe it or not there is a legit argument here. In Sam's case there is no justification whatsoever. What she on him...?
My main point here is I think you're comparing apples to Oranges here.
Ya'll keep me in line I'm hard on the Vodka tonight.:crazy:

 

[tapu]

Hey, Joe, no PUI! (Posting Under the Influence)

I have to go with the naked guy, here, though. I don't want to get into some big argument about war, but Pax, I think you might want to rethink your last paragraph.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Hey, Joe, no PUI! (Posting Under the Influence)

I have to go with the naked guy, here, though. I don't want to get into some big argument about war, but Pax, I think you might want to rethink your last paragraph.

Nah I dont see much difference the US has been slaughtering innocent people for years and making a lot of money doing it. But youre right this isnt the place for that discusion.

My whole point though is that we arent in any position to be judging others, we go and vote evey few years for criminal A or criminal B democrats and republicans are tweedledee and tweedledum,, and we call them our leaders and we let them kill, maim, steal and pillage with impunity and many even cheer it on and wave their little made in China American flags and call themselves patriots. But its ok because its the government that does it and not some 20 year old named Sam.

 

[ericclimbs]

You need a total of 50(ish) posts before you can see images. To stack your post count, go to the games forum and play a few 'abc' games. It's quick, and legal.

I got to see images after I reached around 20-25 posts. I don't remember exactly when it happened. . .

 

[nakedmanjoe]

Nah I dont see much difference the US has been slaughtering innocent people for years and making a lot of money doing it. But youre right this isnt the place for that discusion.

My whole point though is that we arent in any position to be judging others, we go and vote evey few years for criminal A or criminal B democrats and republicans are tweedledee and tweedledum,, and we call them our leaders and we let them kill, maim, steal and pillage with impunity and many even cheer it on and wave their little made in China American flags and call themselves patriots. But its ok because its the government that does it and not some 20 year old named Sam.

Damn Pax I have a whole lot of issues w/our goverment but comparing whats going on overseas w/Sam has got me kinda perplexed. My drunk *advertiser censored* needs to go to bed tonite.:waitasec: have a good Thanksgiving All!!

 

[dangrsmind]

Nah I dont see much difference the US has been slaughtering innocent people for years and making a lot of money doing it. But youre right this isnt the place for that discusion.

My whole point though is that we arent in any position to be judging others, we go and vote evey few years for criminal A or criminal B democrats and republicans are tweedledee and tweedledum,, and we call them our leaders and we let them kill, maim, steal and pillage with impunity and many even cheer it on and wave their little made in China American flags and call themselves patriots. But its ok because its the government that does it and not some 20 year old named Sam.

John 8.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Damn Pax I have a whole lot of issues w/our goverment but comparing whats going on overseas w/Sam has got me kinda perplexed. My drunk *advertiser censored* needs to go to bed tonite.:waitasec: have a good Thanksgiving All!!

LOL no problem bud dont take me too seriously on here, I have my issues with the government and I am really not trying to compare whats going on in the mid east with Sam, all I am saying is that we all essentially have blood on our hands and we probably arent in the best position to be judging others for their mistakes.

I respect everyone's opinion and dont feel hesitant to call me out if you disagree, I dont take these matters personally, to each their own.

 

[claudicici]

I knew getting into this would end up in a stagnant argument but I couldn't help myself since I have no remorse for Sam and could care less what happens to him (Just as long as he's punished with at least LWP). I have no idea who these characters are that you speak of. I just tried to come up with a scenario that I imagine close family members feel when they try to come to grips with why bad things happen and what preventive measures could have been done to stop it. I'm sure most of them wonder why deranged truly evil people get to keep on living while their loved ones don't.
I better get back to work before I get in trouble. Sorry everyone for going off subject, I guess I just found myself with too much idle time at work. Didn't intend to get worked up.

"deranged truly evil people"....sorry ,now i have no idea who these characters are that you speak of...

 

[nakedmanjoe]

LOL no problem bud dont take me too seriously on here, I have my issues with the government and I am really not trying to compare whats going on in the mid east with Sam, all I am saying is that we all essentially have blood on our hands and we probably arent in the best position to be judging others for their mistakes.

I respect everyone's opinion and dont feel hesitant to call me out if you disagree, I dont take these matters personally, to each their own.

Glad u cleared that up. Have a good Thanksgiving.

 

[ericclimbs]

Generally , in jail they are trying to kill each other .

But if he did indeed tell you that , this indicates that he certainly IS deranged and seriously out of touch with reality.

A little clarification on this, speaking from experience. Those who have read all my posts know what I am referring to. about 14 years ago I had the opportunity to be a guest of the jail in Front Royal, Virginia, for about 16 hours. The little cellblock they put me in had five other guys in it sharing three rooms (jail cells -- they lock you in these individual cells but let you commingle in a larger shared area during the day). Front Royal is a little country town. These guys I was locked up with were good old country boys and were very nice. I was nervous at first but soon realized I had nothing to worry about.

Okay, a year or so later the County of Fairfax, Virginia, a suburb of Washington, D.C. thought it might do me some good to think about things within the confines of their jail system. This time it was six days and they put me in another cellblock type situation. They "classify" you according to your crime so petty thieves and drunk drivers do not get put together with rapists and murderers who are eventually headed to the prison system (jail time does NOT equal prison time). Again the guys in here were mostly pretty nice if, though I hate to say it, not too intelligent. The biggest problem I had there, besides learning what it is truly like to have your rights taken away, was sheer boredom. It wasn't scary and no one tried to kill anyone.

Now -- a friend of mine recently spent 9 days in the jail at Bakersfield, CA. He said it was a nightmare. One wrong move could get you in a fight. You mostly hung with your own race and there was a lot of tension. He was in a general population type confinement with many, many more inmates.

My point is it, apparently, very much depends on the nature of the individual jail itself. Sam could easily be in a system where folks are not trying to kill each other meaning he is not deranged at all for sharing that info. Deranged for other reasons, certainly! But if he's the lonely jaded outcast most of us think he is he very well may be making some friends in there, maybe with some fellow "outcasts."