VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #10

[RR0004]

To my knowledge, public defenders don't sit around the station waiting for clients to wander in. The police probably let him know that he could contact the public defender's office to get an appt with an attorney. So then he left. That's how it works in my state.

So when they said he was provided with a lawyer (and spoke to one), he left and did that elsewhere? Weren't they following him? I never heard that he went to an attorney's office.

 

[mom2tee]

Beating the license dead horse ... but ... could his license have been "revoked" or "suspended" and therefor he needed to actually go get a new one? Yes, I live in Virginia and yes, ours expire on our birthday. But with that string of traffic violations, seems it could have been suspended? Just my .02.

From http://www.dmv.state.va.us/drivers/#reinstate.html

Suspension
A suspension is a temporary withdrawal of your privilege to operate a motor vehicle in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Once you comply with the terms of your suspension, including all reinstatement requirements, DMV will reinstate your driver's license. A suspension may result for many different reasons, including, but not limited to:
Failing to pay court fines and costs for convictions for motor vehicle related or non-motor vehicle related violations
Failing to either:
Properly insure and maintain insurance coverage, as required by law, on a motor vehicle that was issued valid license plates
OR
Pay the required uninsured motor vehicle fee
Failing to complete a driver improvement clinic
Failing to pay child support
Failure to pay jail fees
A court order based on a reckless driving conviction
Providing alcohol to a minor or intoxicated person
Excessive accumulation of demerit points related to convictions for traffic violations (Driver Improvement (DI) Program)
The presence of a physical and/or mental condition that impairs your ability to safely operate a motor vehicle
Failing to satisfy an outstanding judgment related to a motor vehicle crash

 

[SDHELPS]

Gitana,
I am not an attorney and am not even an experienced sleuther.

My comment about potential defamation of the POI is in regards to the comments made about how, regardless of the POI is guilty or innocent, his life has been irreparably damaged.

He will find great difficulty finding a job from here on out. This will greatly impact his already unenviable financial situation. His image has been destroyed, his roommates moved out, and people are likely ending his friendships with him. He's essentially been exiled from Charlottesville. The future doesn't look good for him. This can be attributed to Charlottesville LE's comments broadcast on live television. With no grounds to arrest him or no technical grounds to classify him as a suspect.
Maybe I have the wrong legal notion of defamation, but if this isn't a prime example, what is?

I am not taking sides. Objectively I just see this case as tainted.

Just jumping off your post and this is not directed specifically to you fiorita. I found this article about "overt surveillance" which is what Capt. Longo said they were doing. Overt can be described different ways but I think this is clearly what they are doing.

Expert says overt surveillance is commonly used to unnerve suspects...

In short, they were always around. His lawyers say the tactics were designed to put so much pressure on xxxxx, he would say anything about the MG case just to get the pressure off. "One would think that's the objective of the tactics. I can't think of any other reason for it," G said. But criminal investigation experts say what detectives did is a standard practice, one of many tools they use when investigating certain types of crime. Murder and kidnapping are two of those crimes.

Story here: http://www.practicalhomicide.com/articles/071999capecodtimes.htm

 

[GhostGhost]

http://charlottesville.craigslist.org/apa/4615326826.html

This ad on craigslist is for 164-1 Hessian Hills Way, Charlottesville, VA.

It was posted on August 12, 2014 and the apartment is available October 4, 2014.

This gives the landlord enough time for a 30 day notice as required by law, and also time to clean up and repair as necessary.

IFThis is JLM's apartment then that would mean he has been preparing to move, and likely already had a place lined up.

9/13
Hannah (HG) went missing.
9/19
JLM had his home and car searched and
JLM went to the DMV and renewed his license.
9/20
JLM was named publicly as a POI.
JLM went to the police station and asked to speak to a lawyer. He did not speak to LE or give any new information.
JLM drove off at a high rate of speed putting others in danger.

If JLM is guilty of foul play it would seem like it would be 'one last hurrah before moving and evading detection.

Did he get brave because he planned on moving out of town soon? and thought no one would be the wiser if he committed a crime?

Yes, I mentioned that psychology, earlier.

I have a close family member that works in an Ocean-side City - and they see this crime. Rapes and Sexual assaults by Men that are leaving town in a day or two. The Police have referred to that psychology in that City during Press Conferences.

'

 

[Weaslesleuth]

Several people seem a bit hung up on the fact that WG was still following several minutes later but while looking at the map today I had a thought:

There's nothing to say the first vid happened at 1:06:59 and the next vid at 1:08:00.

Tuels is mid block so what's to say JM catches up with HG just after the start of the block, wouldn't it look even weirder if WG followed HG to see if she was okay, but then turned and walked the other way as soon as she was approached by someone else? Wouldn't we be picking that to shreds if he had done that!?

Also, what if he was parked at the end of the mall in the parking lot, maybe he wasn't 'following' her in the second video, more that he had been, saw that she seemed to know someone she knew and finished his walk to the car, which coincidentally happened to be in the same direction HG and JM were walking, which was the way he was originally walking anyway before he saw HG.

Plus it's not all that weird to be out by yourself that late by yourself on a Friday night, isn't there a movie theatre near by? Who's to say he didn't go see a 10pm movie, and had just left the theatre after one.

My take on it is that he's innocent, I truly believe there are still decent people who are out there and I think he was just being fatherly in wanting to make sure she was alright in the only way he thought he could. Heck, I know that I've questioned myself when considering helping people, you do not know how someone will react, especially a 'distressed' female, and sometimes just keeping an eye out is all you can do.

 

[citygirl]

Must we nitpick about Hannah/Heather- Matthew/Matthews? We all know who the discussion is about.
I like Longo. He's well educated, not only LE but, an attorney. He's not stupid. How many times have we all groaned about the lack of info in a presser? He's involved the public in trying to find Hannah. He's put what he can out there. A breath of fresh air, IMO. And I love his passion. I'm thinking the Graham's do too. MOO.

 

[Lava]

POI was provided an attorney at the police station on Saturday and he still left w/o speaking with police. So using the excuse that it is wise not to speak w/o an attorney present has run its course, IMO. He has been provided an attorney at his request, so now he needs to speak. I'm sure when they spoke to him during the car search warrant it was not in depth and was more like, "we've got a warrant to search your car, so we're doing that now." Otherwise they wouldn't be so desperate to speak to him again.

He was not provided with an attorney. He was able to meet with one at the PD. It is unclear if that attorney was able to be retained. So as of right now he may not have an attorney.

 

[Coquette]

https://twitter.com/HenryGraff/status/514141924648058880

UPDATE: police say they went into Jesse Matthew's apartment looking for specific items. They found them. Won't disclose details.

As I suspected. It was clear to me they were looking for those two "items." They clearly have a lot of evidence on JM. They are just waiting for the forensics to solidify things and to safeguard their case. My guess would be that tomorrow they announce that he's their guy and they are now looking for a body as the evidence shows a murder took place. Again, MOO.

 

[Dixie811]

Must we nitpick about Hannah/Heather- Matthew/Matthews? We all know who the discussion is about.
I like Longo. He's well educated, not only LE but, an attorney. He's not stupid. How many times have we all groaned about the lack of info in a presser? He's involved the public in trying to find Hannah. He's put what he can out there. A breath of fresh air, IMO. And I love his passion. I'm thinking the Graham's do too. MOO.

This isn't directed at you, but yes I think it is important. There are a lot of guests reading along and a ton of new users joining to read and post on these threads. It is best to keep things as clear and correct as possible. Calling Hannah by an incorrect name seems disrespectful, as she is a victim here. And using the wrong last name to identify the POI risks mistaken identity with an individual who has a very similar name, but with an S at the end.

IMO, yes it is important.

 

[Lava]

Must we nitpick about Hannah/Heather- Matthew/Matthews? We all know who the discussion is about.
I like Longo. He's well educated, not only LE but, an attorney. He's not stupid. How many times have we all groaned about the lack of info in a presser? He's involved the public in trying to find Hannah. He's put what he can out there. A breath of fresh air, IMO. And I love his passion. I'm thinking the Graham's do too. MOO.

IMO Longo has not given us a lot of information. In the beginning most of his info was wrong (reflections, BG descriptions etc) and now he is so vague and dramatic. We still dont know anything more than from when the video was released.

 

[Emaa]

Hmmm.....wonder if that DMV pic was a scheduled DL renewal or because his previous license had expired. He doesn't have a very good record of keeping his car inspected and his registration renewed from his criminal records. Interesting the pic was taken one week after Hannah disappeared. Just sayin'.

Maybe he recently *misplaced* his license. :thinking:

You may renew your driver's license as early as one year prior to the expiration date on your license.

DMV will mail you a renewal application prior to the expiration date of your driver's license, or you can opt to receive an electronic renewal reminder. If you choose to receive your renewal notice by mail, make sure that your current address is on file with DMV. If your address has changed, then update your address with DMV.
Renewal Fee

The renewal fee is the same as the licensing fee. For example, an 8-year driver's license with no classes or endorsements costs $32. You may pay your fees with cash, money order, check, debit card, or major credit card.

How Long Is My License Valid?

Your renewed license will be valid for eight years, and will expire on your birthday. However, if you received your license at age 16 or 17, then it will expire on your 20th birthday . http://www.dmv.state.va.us/drivers/#renewing.asp

 

[Le Singe]

I don't know if this POI was the last person to be seen with Hannah or not...but FPS, he walks into a police station, demands an attorney then walks out without any explanation? There's a girl missing here!!! If that is in fact him in the video...then tell LE what "little" he knows. That's what an upstanding citizen would do. If it wasn't him, then say...hey that's not me. But to say NOTHING when there's someone's child who is out there lost, no, sorry...I'm not particularly interested in what happens to Mr. Matthew. jmo

I doubt he walked in there to demand an attorney. It would make a lot more sense that they ask him to come down which he did they chatted then once the questions turned to the crime ... that they obviously feel strongly he is guilty of .... he said he didn't want to say anything else without a lawyer. (can you even ask for a public defender before you are even charged with a crime?)

 

[RSC]

Maybe. And perhaps LE misled us for a very valid reason.

But:
1. Again, what I've seen said the witness thinks Hannah "looked" distressed (nothing about crying loudly, etc). This video just seems off for that description.
2. The information about the bald black man in black pants. SOMEONE was making that up. My guess is that we will learn that it was LE; until that is revealed, however, I will still not rule him out, and
3. WG said the BG stopped HG and put his arm around her, then he (WG) left. But in the jewelry video, HG and JM were walking briskly together. Did he stop her right after that, then BG left?

http://www.roanoke.com/news/virgini...cle_4e3b6b32-78a5-54a7-93c9-85ce095b0f27.html

I think she caught his attention when she was a ways behind him for some reason. If you look at the video, she is moving very quickly relative to everyone else. Maybe she was crying, maybe she stumbled, maybe she was making noise, or looked flushed or discombobulated somehow. The video image isn't detailed enough for me to look and say she looks "fine" or "not fine" but I believe something did probably catch his attention. You only have to look at a face for milliseconds (literally.. under half a second, some studies say way under half a second) to be able to decide what emotion a face has.

 

[fiorita]

lateott, You would go to the yellow pages or an attorney's office. But, you are not JM.

We don't know what level of education has or how limited his understanding of how "getting a lawyer" actually works.

I believe he marched to the police station to 'get himself a lawyer' because family members suggested he do so.

He may have gone in person because it was a Sunday and couldn't engage a lawyer on-site. He may have gone in person rather than called for a lawyer for fear that his phone was tapped and any phone calls were recorded.

He may have gone in person to that police station to let it be known by the public that he may or may not have a lawyer.

I think he didn't walk into a police station to demand an attorney.

If you wanted an attorney where would you go? I would go to an attorney's office. (Or the yellow pages.)

I think he walked into a police station to provide information about the minutes he spent with HG that night. I think he will never try that again, especially after that press conference.

ETA: Or, he walked in to try to get his car back...?

 

[Emaa]

:gaah: 20 pages?

Will you all please go join the undercover cops for some coffee at Starbucks whilst I catch up?

 

[Lava]

I doubt he walked in there to demand an attorney. It would make a lot more sense that they ask him to come down which he did they chatted then once the questions turned to the crime ... that they obviously feel strongly he is guilty of .... he said he didn't want to say anything else without a lawyer. (can you even ask for a public defender before you are even charged with a crime?)

You can ask, but you wont get one. I believe he was able to consult with an attorney, who then probably told him not to talk until he could retain an attorney

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Media circuses do not always solve cases. OJ and Casey were acquitted. JonBenet, Natalee and Madeleine's cases were never solved. Natalee and Madeleine were never found. Those are some of the highest publicized cases of the past 20 years. I do not understand why LE is turning a local story into an international affair. Media circuses did not help to solve those cases....What is different here? How is it going to find Hannah or solve the case?

 

[Le Singe]

POI was provided an attorney at the police station on Saturday and he still left w/o speaking with police. So using the excuse that it is wise not to speak w/o an attorney present has run its course, IMO. He has been provided an attorney at his request, so now he needs to speak. I'm sure when they spoke to him during the car search warrant it was not in depth and was more like, "we've got a warrant to search your car, so we're doing that now." Otherwise they wouldn't be so desperate to speak to him again.

Unless the lawyer he was given is an idiot or got a law degree from a clown college in aruba or something the very first then he is going to tell him is do not say anything to them and then he is going to end the interview. Thats totally standard.

 

[Perplexed 123]

"it's, it's very bizarre, certainly something I've never seen in my 33 year in this business. he came in to the station and he had 2 family members with him. he asked for a lawyer. we obtained a lawyer from him. the lawyer came. the 2 of them spoke briefly and jesse left. to be clear, this high speed exit they he took was somewhat after he left the station, he went to a location in alberque county which is our neighbouring jurisdiction where he was surveillance at the time, not covertly, but overtly, he got in too a car and sped off..."

longo http://www.today.com/video/today/56094717#56094717

 

[popsicle]

Would he have to change his address on his licence? His lease is almost up on his apartment. Could be have been changing the address details? (We have our address on our licence in the UK)

He still wouldn't need a new photo. My guess is his DL was suspended and he was just now getting a new one.